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ND digest for Sunday's postings

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  • Melody
    Nondual Digest for Sunday, July 11, 1999 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From Jerry: All perspectives hold, and any perspective exists
    Message 1 of 1 , Jul 12, 1999
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      Nondual Digest for Sunday, July 11, 1999

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      From Jerry:

      All perspectives hold, and any perspective exists within an
      'atmosphere'. Penetration of each atmosphere and then the
      atmosphere of that atmosphere is the ongoing, frictionless
      (therefore, apparently not happening) activity of
      enlightenment. It is the most subtle movement, yet that
      penetration is tremendous. The first few times a person
      recognizes penetration, it is known as initiation.
      Initiation never ceases, it simply becomes seamless and
      everything appears to be the same, hence nonduality.

      So no matter what a person understands to be Truth, be sure
      that it resides in an 'atmosphere' and that that atmosphere
      needs to be entered and transcended. That activity never
      ceases, at some point it becomes so refined as to be
      unspeakable except that it takes the form of utterances of
      the kind that indicate everything is the same and nothing is
      happening therefore 'do nothing', and it leads naturally to
      death and beyond.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      Jan (earlier)
      What is a distraction but an interpretation of phenomena. A loud playing
      radio on the beach is entertainment for one, distraction for another,
      annoying for still another and non-existing for a lazy cop :) Yet the
      playing radio is unaffected by these interpretations. Stop
      interpreting and
      see things "as they are".


      TimG:
      > Wise, but I see the "problem" being not so much in interpreting as
      > "reacting."


      Jan:
      One isn't obliged to interpret or to react. Reaction patterns are stored in
      the habit mind as conditioning but that is done after interpretation and
      initial reacting. The problem is "control the habit mind or be controlled by
      it" and the yogi has solved that. The appropriate sutras (Patanjali I):
      12. Control the activities by practice and detachment.
      13. Practice is effort to concentration.
      14. Long unremitting sincere practice develops into habit.
      15. Detachment is the deliberate renunciation of desire for objects seen or
      heard.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      Ivan:

      Question: Back from the trip, what is the meaning of
      non-duality?
      Is it a memory? It can't be, for memory can not store that!!! So how
      could we point, talk about the trace that remained, -- c'ptain?


      Gene:

      Okay. This is difficult to understand and easy to misunderstand, but here
      goes;

      "Duality" is... a 'universal analogy', a symbolic map of actual 'reality'.
      Duality is experieced as 'real', until an individual experiences a
      'disconnect' or interruption of 'duality'. Duality... is not the enemy, it
      is similar to the GUI (Graphical User Interface) of a modern user-friendly
      computer; 'duality' is a way to 'point and click', to be able to navigate
      in utter ignorance of actual 'reality'. Most users have no idea, what is
      'underneath' the icons and symbols which they point to and click on;
      similarly, most people have no idea what an visial image really 'is', only
      what it can 'do for them'.

      Nonduality, then, is the revealing of the Being underlying reality, the
      basic fundament of Being, which is of course, me. (for me, of course. For
      you, it is you.) That is why it is said... that I am That. Only I may say
      that, and only you may say that. I cannot legitimately say, "You are That",
      without again becoming entangled in the analogy (duality).

      I can say, "I am the only reality", but to who would I say that? Are there
      two "I"s? If I speak to you, I am as clear as I am able to be, because I
      would want my other to be clear to me. I withhold nothing...

      Much ado about 'ego', which is simply the translator of the Universal
      Analogy of Duality. I do not long to kill my translator, now that I have
      cleaned out my ears, so that I can hear what language my translator is
      speaking. It speaks to me, in my waking and dreaming, in my own language;
      so to be able to hear myself, is nonduality; the perspective between "me"
      and 'my translator, ego', this perspective is very apparent to me. It is
      the same voice, echoed through so may relay points... yet, nothing is
      foreign to me. If God, or a 'space-alien' would now appear, I would know
      'who' it is.

      Yes... there are confused, hostile, alienated, vengeful, lustful 'Beings'
      'out there'... but, each one is a point on the spectrum of possibility. It
      is my responsibility to know, and cope with, each of them. Nothing is
      denied, and that is nonduality.

      Points to respond to:

      "Duality is the Universal Analogy" (this is a powerful concept)

      "Identity is the point of attachment to the world-dream" (understood in all
      permutations of the statement)

      "Death is our guide to the past"

      "Don't worry, Carlos; nothing bad will happen!"

      etc...

      ==Gene Poole==

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      Gene Poole:

      << My thesis is that 'ego' (read also 'mind'/thought) is 'simply' an
      >elaboration of the survival-mechanism of the _binary yes/no_ gate.
      >>
      ---

      Xan:

      >I was thinking about this idea the other day. If one ceases the "no" what
      happens?


      Gene:

      Well, your question leads to a very advanced position. I hope you can
      handle it!

      On the level of raw physiology, if the "NO" is removed from the equation, a
      condition called 'anaphylaxis' will (almost inevitably) occur; this is the
      total loss of immunity, leading to death.

      On the other hand, the 'difference engine' of ego (ego itself is that
      engine, designed to run automatically) will always apply the 'brakes' or
      the 'NO' option, as long as it 'sees' the "only inevitable event in the
      future", which is of course, DEATH.

      Ego, seeing DEATH as the _event-horizon_ of the "only possible future",
      will always turn 'away' from the future, thus seeing only the past; that is
      how the past 'becomes the future'. That is why 'we' endlessly repeat the
      same tired events, ask the same tired questions, repeat the same old
      'traditional' answers.

      Conscious awareness may, however, take control, over-riding the
      automaticity of 'ego', and in that event, perhaps choose to remove the
      'NO', or in other words, to release the BRAKES, allowing free movement into
      the future...

      Now facing the future, which is the advent of the 'unknown', the 'unknown'
      replaces the assumptions garnered (and conditioned) in the 'past'. As
      'unknown', there is no DEATH as the _event-horizon_; in this situation,
      'ego' is disarmed, and will stop trying to apply the brakes.

      Now the fun begins. Conscious awareness is at the controls; there is indeed
      still an 'event horizon', the brakes are off, and momentum is allowed.
      Movement is now

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      from Tim Lambert:


      Non-triality, oh what a joy.

      So what is a triadic perspective? To answer that we would first have to
      have a viable example of duality, and yet such would be impossible
      without first coming to grips with unity.

      For absolute unity imagine a single sphere floating in black featureless
      space. The sphere cannot be said to be in motion through space without
      there being another object by which to measure such movement. Nor can
      it be said to possess spin. It exists somewhere outside of time. In
      I-Ching parlance, this is the state of Earth. Docility, receptivity,
      unity.

      For duality, visualize another sphere, this time the yellow hue of a
      hydrogen flame. Bring these two together and have them be of equal
      size. Roll them one against the other. For regions of the Earth's
      surface the rhythm of day and night begins. The second sphere is that
      of Fire. Awareness, attention, duality.

      There exist two hexagrams reflecting the relationships possible between
      these two bodies.

      Earth over Fire--Darkening of the light
      The light has sunk into the earth:
      Thus does the superior man live with the great mass:
      He veils his light, yet still he shines.

      Fire over Earth--Progress
      The sun rises over the earth:
      Thus the superior man himself
      Brightens his bright virtue.

      For triadic, bring in another sphere and color it gray. Adding it to
      the first two, observe that the freedom of surface body interaction is
      reduced. With two spheres, one could roll in any direction as long as
      the remaining ball rotated in the opposite direction. With three the
      spheres must all roll inward, towards the triangular gap at their
      center, which is outward when seen from the opposite face.

      The third sphere is that of Water. Danger, passion, triads. While the
      relationship between the Earth and Sun determines the frequency and
      duration of day and night, the triadic relationship between the Earth,
      Sun, and Moon is the engine powering both our planet's tidal and
      meteorological conditions which fall outside the boundaries of
      predictability due to the law "phase three implies chaos,". This
      interaction is responsible for maintaining the separation between our
      two-ply atmospheric layering, with the liquid oceans glittering beneath
      the outer gaseous fluid from which we draw breath.

      We can now make a closer inspection of unity, where all is either matter
      as in the position held by the materialist or otherwise that all is
      awareness as held by the non-dualists.

      Then there is the stance of the dualist who posits both a body and a
      spirit. Mind and matter. Awake and asleep, conscious and un-. The
      little man in the brain, observing.

      The third sphere introduces a new subdivision, along with the body and
      awareness there is also a reactor. The reactor rules when awareness is
      focused elsewhere, it is protective and on the defensive as it seeks to
      consume whatever energy was produced during the periods of awareness.
      More importantly, the reactor is better able to control the body when
      one's attention is not upon the movement of the body. It lives within
      the tides surging and retreating beneath the waterline of
      consciousness.

      Looking at things from an evolutionary point of view, starting with the
      relationship between Earth and Sun, we find that photosynthetic algae
      was the first form of life to come into existence. Before its arrival,
      which apparently coincided roughly with the ignition of the Sun, the
      Earth's steamy atmosphere was nearly empty of oxygen. So no flame could
      have been lit. Yet once algae started to spread and convert carbon
      dioxide into the reactive gas that we all love to breath, fires become
      first a possibility, later a risk and finally a blessing as the high
      levels of oxygen threatened to kill off the very slime that brought it
      into existence.

      And then, miraculously, the earth acquired a satellite. And with it
      arose a new form of life, an animated form which used the oxygen to fuel
      its actions.

      We see the Moon orbiting the earth at a very low frequency. Consider
      the Moon whizzing across the nigh sky, faster and faster until it is
      less a particle, but more a streak and then less a streak and more a
      band, a cocoon shielding the earth. A high frequency eggshell, beneath
      which the fluids separated into two components, the atmosphere: the
      white of the egg and the single primeval ocean, the yolk.

      Above us, the Moon shows us but one of her faces and though cratered it
      may be, it is smooth compared to the ravaged face she shows the galaxy.
      Our astronauts have walked along the inside surface of our cosmic egg
      and have even scouted the outside from the safety of their orbiters, but
      no man has yet to set foot upon our eggshell's outer surface.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      from Xan:
      (posted on HarshaSatsangh)


      What we do not resist does not overwhelm. By
      opening ourselves/energy fields wide anything can pass through.

      Once when I was camping a tremendous wind storm came up and my tent was blown
      flat. While contemplating how to pull up stakes and head for a more
      protected place during all that turbulence, a different option occured to me.
      I zipped open the front and back flaps and the tent popped back into
      position. My safety was a lot simpler than I thought.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      From: Guitgo@...


      On music: "It is the space between two notes and melody. The same is true of
      languages also."
      U.G. krishnamurti

      muddy water's drummer, francis, told me this very same thing when i asked him
      "what is blues. . .?" he said it was the silences. ..

      between the lines
      12 bars of blessed silence,
      love
      aleks

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      From Jerry:

      The following is forwarded from Petros:

      U.G. also speaks of
      androgyny resulting from his "enlightened" state.
      When concepts are dropped one's view of bodies in
      general tends to alter and become less dependent upon
      cultural "norms" and expectations. Saniel Bonder also
      deals with this issue when he speaks of transcending
      "hypermasculine dharmas."

      Spiritualized people also, I've noticed, appear to be
      ambisexual or unusually sensual to the mundane
      consciousness, and oftentimes this is simply an
      innocent "openness" or easiness with one's body and
      one's space. The average person in the workaday world
      is so tightly wound up, so suspicious of any invasion
      of "personal space," that this spiritual openness can
      be misinterpreted as sensuality when that is not the
      message one is intending to send.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      (from HarshaSatsangh List)

      Melody:

      I'm seeing people as generally talking
      to themselves, *about* themselves, and
      using others' images as something to
      bounce ideas off of. I don't mean this
      in a personal or indifferent way, but
      more as a dance, that we all participate
      in. I seeing how there's always a glove
      to fit one's hand...always a jig to a bob,
      a partner for every waltz. And it's always
      a solitary waltz, yet we need people to
      dance with, in order for it to be played out.

      So, though it's solitary, it needs to be
      danced in a room full of solitary dancers.
      ~~~~~~~~

      With this thought, I begin seeing myself as
      either reflecting as moon, or radiating as sun.

      (The dual perspective:)
      As moon, I am in a reflect-ory state...
      it's a space of 'projecting' images. As
      moon, I am separate from the source of Being.
      I am reflectING. I am A reflection.


      (The nondual perspective:)
      As sun, I am in a radiating state..
      No projecting, no mirroring, but pure
      radiant expression. As sun, I AM.

      The moon and the sun are always present.
      The sun is always shining, the moon is
      always reflecting.

      Yet at different times we experience
      Life one way, and then another.


      Dan:

      If the moon is reflecting
      the sun to itself,
      each are doing what they
      are meant to do
      and are one...

      For me, the dance is like
      a light mist moving over
      the water.

      The water realizes it actually
      is touching and becoming the mist.

      The water tries to hold on to its
      former self-contained reality,
      but this matters less and less.
      The water has its place in the scheme of things
      but learns it has never been self-contained.
      It's the movement of the mist --
      at first seeming relatively unreal
      that gets more and more real...
      everything begins to reverse --
      the water is there
      for the sake of the mist :-)
      and then, the water becomes
      another aspect of the mist --
      then, there is only the mist

      It is solitary only in the sense
      of no self or other...
      to me, it can't be considered
      "alone" as humans mean this term...
      because what does "alone" mean
      when there never has nor will be
      another?
      So our words become mist...
      moving and circulating
      neither for the sake of self
      or other...

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      from Sandeep:
      (posted on the Bridge-l list)

      There was one who for some strange reason chose to remain in a closed room
      right from his birth, a room where there was not even the slightest crack
      through which sunlight could enter the room.
      All the needs to physically exist, survive, thrive etc were provided and
      there was no need for this person to ever venture outside the room.

      Coming across the word of "sunlight" among the multitude of books that this
      person would read all his life, he sought an explanation which could stand
      the validation within his reality, his knowledge base.
      Many came and discussed treatises on the subject, showed "proofs" that such
      an entity did exist, but not surprising all attempts failed the sharp
      intellect of this person.

      Comes along a sage, who when sitting across this person in his airtight but
      airconditioned room, and listening to the issue, suddenly screams out that
      there is a Fire behind him.
      Such was the ferocity, the intensity of the roar of the sage, that this
      person jumps and jumps through the closed door, smashing it open in the
      process.

      For the first time he is outside and he is bathed in sun light and he knew.
      And he saw the appropriateness of the "lie", the device that was used to get
      him to jump from his reality, his knowledge base.
      And he bowed in tears for the "lie", for the compassion of the sage as he
      walked away.

      (and)


      As a Sufi song goes....

      I thought of You so often
      that I completely became You
      Little by little You drew near
      and slowly but slowly I passed away.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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