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Highlights of Friday August 4, 2000

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  • Gloria Lee
    JUDI & XAN ********** And something else, you can t appreciate what I m talking about until your hands are actually in the sink. -- Happy Days, Judi ~ For me
    Message 1 of 1 , Aug 5, 2000
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      JUDI & XAN

      **********
      And something else, you can't appreciate what I'm talking about until
      your hands are actually in the sink.
      --
      Happy Days,
      Judi


      ~ For me this is an interesting mystery. Even while awakening
      in universal awareness, there is privacy of experience and
      uniqueness of expression. This can be a problem in the activity
      of trying to assess "who is enlightened" or who is doing "the work."
      Differences of style are given meaning and significance that have
      nothing to do with the essence of the matter.

      I don't know your intimate experience of hands-in-the-sink work,
      and you apparently don't know mine. Transformation of identity
      takes place, and is transmitted, in very subtle realms.

      love
      Xan


      **********
      Well, it's sort of like this Xan. A lot of people know the tune,
      but unless you dance it, you really don't know the song.

      Has nothing to do with style, but everything to do with presence!
      -----------------------------
      ~ You are so right, girl!

      X
      __________________________________________________

      ANDREW


      It's a funny thing...without your hands and the hot soapy water the dishes don't get
      washed but when you're there and moving your hands around with scrubber and dishrag,
      the dishes wash themselves, pile themselves in the rack, put themselves away on the
      shelf...

      love,

      andrew
      ________________________________________________________

      MELODY responding to Gene's "Benevolent & Wrathful Deities"


      You said, in part:

      > I offer this information as compassionate caution to all readers.
      >
      > Beware of the impulse to react to perceived 'evil', and equally,
      > beware of the impulse to follow perceived 'good'.
      >
      > A deep study of the universe as seen by Vajrayana will fully inform
      > you of the inherent traps and hazards to be found in our basic
      > spiritual infrastructure; specifically, the impulses of AVERSION and
      > its polar opposite, DESIRE.
      >
      > You may note, if you look carefully and dispassionately, that among
      > the population of self-identified followers of various spiritual
      > paths, that there is shame attached to desire, and yet VIRTUE is
      > attached to aversion. People speak with pride and passion, of what
      > they 'abhor', and yet they speak little of what they desire, having
      > accepted that desire is a flaw.


      Some desires are easier to recognize than others. One of
      the subtlest and yet most compelling desire is: to be accepted
      as part of a community....which includes for me, the desire to be
      appreciated. That desire alone is strong enough to get me
      to 'sell my soul' to the (d)evil.

      And yet, I see no sense of 'shame' attached to this....not
      like the shame for admitting a desire for fame and fortune,
      for instance. There seems to be a sense of 'good' and
      'evil' even as it pertains to the 'flaw' of self indulging.

      <snip>


      > The aversive impulse is to move _away_, while the desire impulse is
      > to move _toward_. Persons who are unconscious of this basic reality
      > of human design principle, are very easy to manipulate; simply
      > present them with a symbol which is aversive, and they will move away
      > from it. If at the same time, a symbol of desire is presented, they
      > will move toward it. It is quite easy to manipulate most people in
      > this way; this is how the entire world-dream system of
      > governance/control is enacted.


      It IS easy to manipulate people. The easiest manipulation
      ....the way to best assure your 'acceptance' by the community
      ....is to compliment them, individually and collectively. I call
      this 'aura fluffing'. People eat this stuff up. People demand it.

      I caught myself demanding this 'fluffing up' just last night. A
      new friend of Joseph's was over. I carpooled him around
      yesterday, fixed dinner for him, and after only a couple of
      hours (and having not yet gotten an opportunity to get to
      know this boy) I heard myself thinking, "I don't want Joseph
      to have him over any more."

      When I heard this thought I started laughing.

      I stated laughing because the only reason I didn't want him
      to come over again was SIMPLY because he never once
      offered to 'fluff me up'...... never complimented me on my
      home, or my dinner; never offered a thank-you. And I was
      ready to banish him from my home for that 'sin'! Is that crazy or
      what? Funny thing is: after I laughed to myself about it...
      ...after promising myself there would be no such banishing,
      on the drive home he couldn't say 'thank you' enough.
      Gratefully, by that time, his 'thank you' was no longer
      *necessary*.


      It's such a marvelous experience to allow both
      opposing forces at the same time, Gene. When I do
      so I am immediately shifted to 'witness' position....
      witnessing and allowing both the body 'refusal',
      along with the conscious 'allowing' of thought
      and experience.....that they seem to neutralize
      that 'pulling' - of moving towards/moving away...

      they become simply 2 ingredients of 1 experience.

      Melody
      ______________________________________________________

      MARCIA adds

      Not to be picky here but it is three ingredients of
      one experience. The witness is the third ingredient.
      The space between the yes and the no is its own
      position.

      How I experience this is yes, a holding firm, or
      grounding in the body or keeping attention on
      my spine, and the emotions rise and fall
      without my manifesting them either internally
      or externally. Each moment they get neutralized.
      Where I make my "mistake" is to feel like I want
      them neutralized once and for all when to be
      present is a moment by moment experience.
      This is "if" I am awake.

      The more common experience is a falling back
      into the present as I allow one or the other of the
      two original forces to act on me in such a way
      as I become present. In the Work it is often
      talked about being third force blind but the
      situation is that we are most often blind in
      two of the forces. So it becomes a little wake-up
      and another wake-up. A wake-up to wake-up.
      It can also be a wake-up to plunge-deeper kind
      of thing.

      _________________________________________________

      MARK & JUDI


      > > ***** Good morning. Take a look around, this is nothing but
      > > compassion.
      > > Grace.
      >
      M: Yes, I see that. (yum) and when I just relax and accept that, I am very
      > happy. I just forget from time to time.
      >
      ****** Yes, and here *we* are. :-) Beautiful, no? I couldn't have
      designed
      it better myself!
      ___________________________________________________________

      In the Journal of Global Buddhism.

      Sort of a sociological article the buying patterns of Americans who like
      Buddhism. The author tries to link the things they buy to their attitude
      towards Buddhism. He talks about "night-stand Buddhists," "Buddhophiles,"
      sympathizers and seekers. Kind of interesting.

      http://jgb.la.psu.edu/1/padgett001.html#twentyseven

      Enjoy!

      --Greg

      ------------------

      Around here, Buddhists seem to drive Subarus.
      I'm not sure why. In my opinion Subarus have
      an undeserved reputation for reliability and
      durability when they actually rust badly and
      break down a lot. No insult intended either to
      Buddhists or to Subarus.

      love,

      andrew

      ---------------------
      That Glows-in-the-dark Buddha on my nightstand was a GIFT!!

      I swear,
      Gloria
      ________________________________________________

      DAVID on Jerry's "Nonduality Street"

      Jerry,
      Thank you for this exquisite piece of writing. That fan that does not turn has been
      haunting my imagination all day. It is a like a tiny detail in a painting by Edward
      Hopper.
      I think you might have just created a new genre - NonDuality Noir.

      The city is such a fertile metaphor for poetry and prose-poetry. Like the Matrix,
      it is entirely a created environment that has much to teach us about perception and
      consciousness. I like my little NonDuality Street here in New Haven...it is actually
      called State Street, and the buildings in my little area represent all the states of
      human existence. When I go to work in the morning, chances are there will be people
      going to early morning Mass at Saint Stanislaus R.C. And there might be anti-abortion
      protestors hanging out in a desultory way at the Women's Clinic. During tax season
      people line up at the H.R. Block office on the corner, and more often than not in the
      afternoon or evening there is a funeral at the funeral home in the next block. Late
      weekend nights young people throng the dance club across the street. And every once
      in a while the strange unpredictable enterprise called NeverEnding Books opens its
      doors to an indifferent public. Birth, death, drinking, religion, death,
      taxes...we've got it all, here on State street. And dusty used books if you get
      lucky.

      David
      -----------------

      You can, and have, written about your street as it is.
      NeverEnding books sounds like a place I'd own.

      I might do so more writing on my paragraph. In an ideal
      world, the writing would be expanded into a novel which
      would be populated by all the characters to have populated
      these lists. It would be an interesting way of putting
      everyone's writing together. Nonduality Street.

      Jerry
      ________________________________________________________________________

      PHIL & JAN


      Jet set nondualists. Nondualists who drive BMW's -- or who
      take a week off to be with Gangaji at Lake Tahoe(!). Must
      be nice. Are there any nondualists who work six days a week
      in order to pay bills and can hardly afford even a day off?

      Just wondering.

      Phil


      The diversity among nondualists probably exceeds the diversity among taxpayers :)

      Jan
      _______________________________________________________________

      JERRY & DAVE


      Has anyone ever practiced meditation while lucid dreaming?
      The great thing about it is that you don't have to relax
      your body. Your body's already quite relaxed. In fact, it's
      sleeping!

      I've done lucid dreaming meditation a few times. The first
      thing you notice is what I just mentioned: there's no bodily
      relaxation to practice. How about the easing or releasing of
      thoughts? There's none of that either. In fact the only
      thought would be, 'I am dreaming'. There's none of the other
      junk pressing on the mind. Then arises the thought, 'I'm
      going to meditate'.

      The meditation begins immediately. For me, there is direct
      contact with the third eye. Whatever chakra you focus on
      will immediately absorb your attention, I would think. I
      don't know, though, because I've never talked to anyone
      about it, nor have I ever read anything about this practice.

      What happens to me is that the third eye opens viciously, it
      swirls and reveals all kinds of symbolic secrets and offers
      to suck me in. It's very powerful.

      I have also inquired 'Who am I?' in a lucid dream. It throws
      me to my body, or it finds me looking into a mirror. It
      shows me my real self, I think. I say, 'I think', because
      the whole darn thing is a dream! It has the veil of
      dreaminess about it no matter how lucid it is.

      I don't know whether lucid dreaming meditation or inquiry
      has value other than recreationally. It's possible that
      inquiry would be more clearly understood when waking inquiry
      is compared to lucid dreaming inquiry. Waking inquiry is
      much more effective, I find. Lucid dreaming meditation is
      recreational and very interesting. I wonder if others
      sensitive to third eye activity would try it. Maybe others
      could try inquiry during lucid dreaming and report what
      happens. It's recreational inquiry, my latest invention.

      Jerry

      --------------------------------------
      My Lucid dreaming practice is a preparation of the dream body,
      or other self, to be used in waking states, as such, it is
      almost a meditiation in itself.

      I used to do recreational lucid dreaming, like sex, flying
      and that kind of stuff, but then I realized that it was
      a very powerful tool for investingating and meditating.

      I didn't ever intentionally call it meditating however.

      Almost automatic about half the time. I think it's important to
      insist that you get there first, or else, it IS recreational
      lucid dreaming.


      I do a Carlos Casteneda excersize, identifying the energy.
      It's great for highlighting or accentuating reality from
      non-reality. Don't ever believe that certain aspects of
      lucid dreaming are as real as "life". Or maybe the other way around,
      that life is no less a dream than a lucid dream!

      Lucid dreaming is very serious! It's far less than recreational,
      or could be, when used in the form you use it. The practice
      of lucid dreaming brings super valuable experience into
      your waking life.

      By the way, a true adventurer can stuble upon some very
      serious territory. Like entering directly and consciously from
      waking state to lucid dream and then repeating that in the lucid
      dream. Not recommended for beginers! You're never sure if you've
      come all the way out.

      It is a very practical excersize however trying to enter directly
      from waking state to lucid dream. It gives you a real perspective
      on consciousness transitions and the control it requires to manage
      such transitions. Also, if entering directly can be managed, you
      can practice entering with someone else.

      I managed that once, with my wife Ale. It was her first lucid dream,
      I waited for her ( after trying for about 3 months ). She bounced off
      all the walls, because she wasn't used to her body not having mass!
      (Fortunately she didn't pass through the walls at least). I woke her up.
      There was also another energy in the room!

      Oh yeah, where was I?

      Thanks Jer.
      Dave

      --------------------

      There is one lucid dream I remember very well: it started as a normal dream, at the
      beach, going to swim, and suddenly I was swimming under water, enjoying the sight of
      colorful fish and coral reefs - very beautiful. At a certain moment I noticed there
      was no feeling of warm or cold and amazingly, there was no need to breathe either.
      Immediately it flashed through the mind "transfiguration completed" and the sense of
      happiness was so strong that it catapulted me directly into waking up from sleep,
      with the thought: "fooled again. That kind of happiness is impossible when
      transfiguration is completed". Even when "normally" dreaming, I always know to be...
      well, someone with active K. :)

      Jan
      ________________________________________________________

      LARRY

      Daniel, thanks for your interesting and thought provoking reply.
      Basically I am trying to understand what people mean when they say "all
      there is is consciousness". It makes more sense to me to qualify it by
      saying all there is _in_experience_ is consciousness. The way you
      outlined it there is 1. consciousness, 2. appearance, 3. objects, and 4.
      noumenon (which you defined as space? rather than subjectivity). This is
      fine with me but I don't see how it adds up to "all there is is
      consciousness". Further, I don't see how Don Juan's "tonal" meaning
      known and unknown knowables could equal consciousness. How could
      consciousness be what I am not conscious of?

      Nevertheless, I am not 100% disagreeable. I can see how ruminating on
      the consciousness quality of this lived experience could be a doorway to
      experiencing the emptiness (ungraspable) quality of all we hope for and
      fear.

      At any rate, it certainly merits further research :)

      Larry

      __________________________________________________________

      DAVE

      Andrew wrote:
      >
      > Mark's right, practise, some form of meditative practise,
      > formal or not, so that one is familiar with the underlying
      > stillness of the mind, then the reactions seem very much
      > like wind driven waves on the surface which rise when the
      > wind blows and quickly dissipate when it stops, and the
      > underlying stillness is everpresent.
      >

      What a lovely little arrow you shot there Andrew.

      I go back to a time, when I don't think I existed.
      On the coast of British Columbia, standing on an island
      that could have belonged to no one, maybe 1 square Km
      in area. My brothers and I had fought a fast rising storm,
      in canoes, getting to the island. Fortunately we were all
      in very good physical shape in those days, (quite a while
      ago). The wind dictated our direction, we had to point
      the bow of the canoes into the oncoming wave. The nearest
      land, was a rock cliff, less than 500 meters from us.

      We rowed frantically one stroke ahead, a half a stroke
      behind, all the while battling 2 meter waves... almost
      cresting. I had done white water rafting, so was roughly
      prepared to manage the canoes. We had supplies and
      gear for the weekend, there was absolutely no room for error.

      There was an island with a "beach" (apt for docking) 1 Km
      ahead, but we were travelling about 1/2 Km per hour.

      Well, I'm here, so you know that we made it to the beach.
      The first thing my younger brother did was ran to shore to
      kiss the ground. I stood, looking at the storm. It was a
      time when I had read the Carlos Casteneda books for the first
      time. Looking back, I remember in that moment... Silence.
      The storm was raging, my hair was tossing from one side to
      the other, my clothes blowing against my body. I don't remember
      sound. The whole trip in canoe passed as though it were a
      dream. The Eagle had let me pass, for the time being. He knew
      more than I.

      Later that night, the storm passed. My other brother had a
      surprise for us. He was excessively anxious to go skinny
      dipping at midnight. Kept repeating it and repeating it.
      We were tired, but he insisted. Finally we tore off our clothes
      and he went running ahead, kicking and splashing before we got
      to the beach. There's a special kind of phosphorescent algea
      that lights up in that area when its disturbed. He was surrounded
      in a pool of light. What a night!

      Anyway, that silence... in walking around meditation, can be
      an extraordinary grounding point. Thank you for recalling it.

      There are a very powerful series of exercises for strengthening
      this aspect of ones consciousness.

      Love
      Dave.
      _________________________________________________________________

      MIKE CHANDLER

      Recently I was watching--- for the sixth time or so-- Tim Robbins in
      the film "Jacob's Ladder"....probably the only movie in which it
      turns out the protagonist died in the first scene....All the horrific
      weirdness that ensues is his journey through the Bardo....And then I
      was (love the term) gobsmacked to realize that the Bardo is
      recapitulated in our every mind-moment. We die as the process we just
      were....Our past can rise up as peaceful or wrathful figures...then
      we choose our "rebirth" in the next mind-moment (deific, or human, or
      animal, or desire-driven hungry ghost, or hell-realm)...And in the
      Bardo of each mind-moment we can drop all the realms and stay with
      the Clear Light....So it's not a some-day-far-off between-lives thing,
      this bardo. It's now, and now, and now.

      M.
      _________________________________________________________________
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