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Highlights of Thursday August 3rd

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  • andrew macnab
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ... Daniel wrote: So differences apply to the apparent objects in
    Message 1 of 1 , Aug 4, 2000
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      >>>Daniel, Larry, one, two, zero...

      Daniel wrote:
      So differences apply to the apparent objects in phenomenality, oneness
      applies to noumenality and the subjective presence that underlies the
      phenomena.
      --------------------------

      Hi Daniel, I think I understand what you are saying, but I have a few
      qualms. If phenomenality is consciousness, what is noumenality. Why
      can't phenomenality be oneness and noumenality be noneness? Howcome
      there's two? Who's counting? Isn't presence a phenomenon? How do you
      know there is a noumenon?

      yours in the way, Larry

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      >>>From Mu...

      i see only you
      you see only me
      we are in
      and in front of
      the mirror of love

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      >>>Another response to John Franklin's question about time and nonduality, this one from Dave (manchine)...

      Hi John,

      Every time I think I understand what's going on, something
      else comes along to show me that I'm just begining.

      A long time ago, it started with I AM. I couldn't imagine
      anything more profound.

      Over the years, I have been left with the impression that
      our consciousness is like a sphere. At first this sphere is
      tightly focused on all the detail surrounding us. All the
      small daily things consume every ounce of our energy.

      It's like looking at life through a narrow tube. Through the tube,
      you see what's directly in front of you, a small piece of
      everything. It's always been that way, so to us it appears that the
      entire universe is what we see through this tube at any given moment.
      As we move the tube around to get more of a look, things pass out of
      view and new things come into view. This seems to be the normal way
      of looking at things. We remember what "was" in view, and try to put
      that together with what is now in view. We begin to imagine what
      other things should appear.

      The best way to make sense of this is to imagine that things
      appear in sequence (time). Let's take two individuals, looking through
      tubes. One starts looking from one place, the other from another.

      Now it becomes pretty clear, why, when finally the two get to
      looking at the same thing, they each see this thing as something
      a little different. Each one constructed his images based on a whole
      different sequence of views.

      As consciousness expands, the sphere, or diameter of the tube becomes
      larger. Moving the tube now has, relatively speaking, fewer things
      leaving the tube and fewer things entering. If you could imagine
      no tube at all, nothing would enter, and nothing would leave.

      Make any sense?

      Dave

      ***********

      >>>Jerry...


      Hi Dave,

      Gene Poole wrote a classic piece which sounds like what you
      are saying. It is at

      http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/umbada/gene3.htm#3

      Here's how it begins:

      The whole and its parts: I AM and ego

      Envision a cone-shaped object; the wide end, like a
      floodlight, illuminates

      all that is.

      The narrow end, the very sharpest point, like the sharpest
      of

      laser-scalpels, is able to separate the most minute
      particles, one from

      another.

      The wide end of the cone is "I Am", the tiny sharp pointed
      end is 'ego'.

      I Am and ego are one and the same, one is the front, one is
      the back; it is

      wholeness.

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      >>>A snip of one of Gloria's posts...


      The good/evil duality is like the oldest story around. The first step of actually
      labeling and seeing "whatever" as evil is what activates the self-righteous urge to
      reform it for its own good...that is how it becomes a weapon. We do this to ourselves
      and to other people both. Then we get to identify with the good and feel saintly..uh,
      while it lasts. This creating of the duality in the first place is what sets the
      whole pattern in motion tho, with results like the inquisition and countless lesser
      stuff. Admittedly, it's more of a challenge when someone is crucifying you...still
      this first label and identification of evil is a step to be carefully looked into.
      It's sorta gotten way out of hand, in my humble opinion. Part of the 'resist not' can
      be refraining from jumping into that duality. Even with the judo part of that quote,
      they don't just stand there and let someone beat them up tho...do they? Somehow they
      transform the "attack energy"...and render it harmless. Like Jesus saying, "Forgive
      them, they know not what they do" and thus he changed attack into ignorance.

      ...

      I don't have solutions to much of anything anymore..but I do find it useful to ask
      myself why I am making this into such a problem to begin with.

      Love,
      Gloria

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      >>>Melody sent this piece by Osho...


      "Whatsoever you believe, you project.
      Belief is a projection. It is just like a
      projector in a movie film-house:
      you see something on the screen which
      is not there.

      The projector is hidden behind, but
      you never look at the projector, you
      look at the screen. The projector is
      at the back, and the whole game is
      going on there,

      but you look at the screen.

      The whole game is going on in
      your mind, and a mind filled with
      belief always goes on projecting
      things to the world, it sees things
      that are not there. This is the problem.

      The mind which believes is always
      vulnerable and always provides an
      opportunity to be exploited by the
      cheaters - and the cheaters are all
      around. The whole path is filled
      with robbers, because no map exists.

      ---from Osho's "The Grass Grows
      by Itself"

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      >>>Mark...


      I cut holes in my pockets, Lord
      So the gift of your love might return to you that much faster.
      I cut holes in my heart, Lord,
      To better let you in.
      I cut holes in the fine silk of time, Lord,
      To peer through in wonder at your splendor.
      I cut holes in the whole, Lord
      Now teach me how to sew.


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      >>>Dave, Mark, andrew, Melody...

      Whatsoever you believe, you project...

      ************

      Dave: Yes, this seems to be clear at this point,
      it's the practical aspects that are complicated.

      Just when you think you've got a grip on the concept,
      someone comes along and pushes a button!

      Happened to me just yesterday!

      In this case, I did my best, I caught myself
      reacting and tried to look at everything that
      was going on. In the last moments of the situation,
      I came around to where I should have been in the first
      place, looking into his eyes and realizing, that this
      wasn't about "him", or "me".

      The heat of the moment sucks up all attention,
      bells go off, alarms sound, all systems to the
      defense. Who's going to remember some quote, let alone
      that it really isn't real! Even when we manage to
      maintain some composure, we try to watch what we are doing
      be careful about not saying "such and such".

      WHEN IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYONE DOING ANYTHING.

      I put that in caps, because it's the part that gets forgotten.
      And the problem is, it's not a thing that should be remembered,
      it's a thing that should be felt, or better yet, intrinsically
      know.

      Knowing Self helps a lot. One tends to trust oneself over
      others. Human nature. The whole separation thing. Me more important
      than other. Darn, even when we try to remember, that it shouldn't
      be so. But when we see that Self is not only you but everybody else,
      I guess you end up with that kind of intrinsic knowledge that
      Christ or Buddha had.

      So yeah, this is all a projection, 75% of us have that clear,
      conceptually.

      In the Gut Reaction sense, what's your guess? 1%?

      So how do we get past the theory?

      *************

      practice.

      Love, Mark

      *************

      How about just being happy when happy, sad when sad, angry when angry, etc. , natural
      and uninhibited. Ultimately it seems to me that any selfjudgement about such things is
      in the end based in some form or other of selfish craving, even the wish to be a
      'better' person. Mark's right, practice, some form of meditative practice, formal or
      not, so that one is familiar with the stillness under thought, then the
      reactions seem very much like wind driven waves on the surface which rise when the
      wind blows and quickly dissipate when it stops, and the underlying stillness is
      everpresent.

      love,

      andrew

      *************


      I really liked (Mark's) response....practice,
      but I'll share what I've noticed.

      It helps me, Dave, to get out of my head in this
      stuff, and stay focused on my body. That way I
      avoid stepping in a bunch of 'should' stuff.

      I simply notice when I'm 'pushing away' a thought
      or a feeling. I'm seeing it as deciding to break
      the 'habit' of resistance. And choosing instead
      to 'receive' (instead of refuse) the feeling or
      thought that is being triggered.

      I'm finding that if I stay focused on 'my' reactive
      thought and feeling....by watching body cues....
      that I'm freed from taking people, and their
      actions, so personally.


      Melody

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      >>>xan sent...


      From Gangaji's little book, Freedom & Resolve:

      Until the body is gone and the mind is completely finished, until your
      last breath is expelled, there must be a willingness to be totally aware
      of the mind's impulse to move toward or to move against all mental,
      emotional, physical and circumstantial objects. In this willingness you
      can see the freedom that is the truth of one's being revealed in the
      purity of the non-teaching, be still.

      Attend to what is already still.

      The more you express this stillness, the deeper and more subtle are the
      challenges of seeing the mind's tendency to move, to take, to keep away,
      or to deny the movement.

      You can use your time extremely rarely, preciously, to see what object
      is being followed. Silence can't be followed. Silence doesn't go
      anywhere. Silence can only be met in silence.

      I invite you to give up all concepts of your life, your present, your
      future, and to see wht is untouched by this possessive pronoun of
      suffering. And when I say "suffering," I am not excluding please. The
      most intense pleasure, is included in suffering as well as the most
      intense pain.

      The invitation of Ramana, who speaks from the core of your own being,
      calls to you with the simple phrase, be still.

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