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Tuesday, July 11

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  • umbada@ns.sympatico.ca
    The tenderness of erring is never understood in the moment. Not for what it is. Its coldness, its hollow pleasure Huh, its brazen arrogance! Something s not
    Message 1 of 1 , Jul 12, 2000
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      The tenderness of erring
      is never understood in the moment.
      Not for what it is.

      Its coldness,
      its hollow pleasure
      Huh, its brazen arrogance!

      Something's not right!
      I can't look IT in the eye.
      From here.

      How is it that I got here?
      So very far away.
      ah, the dream, oh sweet dream!

      Your tender touch
      testing my knowledge of you.
      I'm here for you again.

      this image
      is ALL
      but nothing in your LOVE


      MARK OTTER: Selections

      Say gang, no more accusations of non real realization.
      (please?) From now on, help everyone towards real
      realization. It it's ego based, it needs to be looked at.
      That's fine - looking can be done with love. loving words
      are helpful, but it is important to use them skillfully -
      use them to help others. Neem Karoli Baba told Ram Dass
      many times when Ram Dass asked him how to become
      enlightened "feed people." True for calories, true for
      love. Hey Maharishi, back me up, and hit these people with
      your whip o' love. (or hit me anyway...) humbly asked. I
      know I can't do it. do it now.


      I dont' want to hear about experiences. I want to dive into


      I think aspirants tend to focus on everything and anything,
      and hopefully become skilled at distinguishing what is true
      and what is false. I truly believe that this is helpful,
      however the final unveiling comes crashing in.


      The ego preservation movement is very strong here in Mark,
      but mark is very willing to look at it closely. Mark does
      not wish to preserve ego shit. ego shit is lies lies, lies.
      bullshit limitations bullshit self agrandizment bullshit
      defense. no defense. Mark willing to die. mark dying
      already. Oh push over edge. no questions. I'll spread my
      wings while I fall. okay. lets fall together. let go. no
      value, no ego, no nothing. fall into life. there is no
      reason to resist. if I am wrong, then so be it. no worse
      than Hell that Mark earned and suffered in and deserved
      fully. done now. enough. areyou love?



      My dear friend, before you take Ramana's teachings for
      there literal meaning (world disappears) please think about

      As far as the Self is concerned it was not worried about
      what came from a body called Ramana. This body, as per its
      programming, spoke in tamil, telegu most of the time. Yes
      it also spoke english but sparingly. Many questions were
      asked, some were answered by silence, some with some words.
      Some of these words were translated by some bodies with ego
      notions (as only few were realized as per your count).
      Hence the translation was done in illusion, the printing
      and your reading is happening in the delusion.

      Your posting them on different list is happening in the
      same delusion and my responding to them is happening in the
      same delusion.

      The same can be said about Nisargadatta Maharaj, he spoke
      in Marathi, most of his works are translation.

      It is said that Ramana's teaching in silence were the best
      of all teachings, I pray that those silent teachings touch
      your heart.


      For one who quotes Ramana Ramana also said the ego of a
      sage is like a burnt rope, the shape of the rope exist but
      it is of no use for it can't tie anything.

      It is good that you are reading Ramana's teaching. But it
      looks like you are infatuated with only a particular aspect
      of it: effort in killing the ego. Either you try to kill
      the ego and tell us what happened or keep an open mind and
      read all of Ramana without searching for authentication of
      your concepts of effort to kill ego.

      If you have som much faith in your interpretation of
      Ramana's method on killing the ego, why not try it out. Why
      waste time discussing with the advaita theorist? After you
      have killed the ego....may be you can share your



      In the presence of "Self" there does not exist a shadow of
      a doubt as to "sincerity of conduct". It is perfectly true,
      however, that maintaining attachments to worldly comforts
      limits "access" to Self, thus "such a person IS discarded
      like a lowly one" almost by definintion.

      Each day it seems more the rage to look down on well
      meaning discoverers. We seem to be moving towards the
      attitude of the old religions of the past, breathing fire
      and brimstone.

      Yes, the ego is a tough cookie, and requires, at precise
      moments solid shots, but even those should be administered
      with the compassion of "Being" itself. If one is puting up
      a show that he is realized, it is more likely that he is
      innocent, and should indeed then be treated with

      It seems self regulatory. We are in a process, an
      intentional play. We curse at other, we cannot see Self. We
      fall for larger periods, any glimppse into Self is fearsome
      yet leaves one with the inspiration to "give their head a

      There IS a connection to Self, know it.



      Inner vigilance, discernment, discrimination are always
      required. It's important to shine a light on the darkest
      corner's of one's life, even if behavior can't change so

      All Scriptures swiped off the desk, I find only my elbows
      on it.



      Like the hunger site, your mere click creates a donation by
      sponsors and advertisers to buying land to protect it from



      The higher your aims and vaster your desires, the more
      energy you will have for their fulfillment. Desire the good
      of all and the universe will work with you. But if you want
      your own pleasure, you must earn it the hard way. Before
      desiring, deserve.

      - Nisargadatta Maharaj

      This quotation is from: "I Am That" Talks with Sri
      Nisargadatta Maharaj The Acorn Press, 1973


      I'm spending the day with Osho today...

      "These techniques [described in his 'Book of Secrets'] are
      to help you, to bring you back. Much will have to be
      destroyed - all that is wrong, all that is false. Before
      the real arises the false will have to leave; it must
      cease. And these are the false notions - that you are.
      These are the false notions - that you are a soul, atma,
      you are Brahma. Not that you are not, but these notions are

      Gurdjieff had to insist that there is no soul in you.
      Against all the traditions he insisted, 'Man has no soul.
      Soul is simply a possibility - it can be, it may not be. It
      has to be achieved. You are simply a seed.'

      And this emphasis is good. The possibility is there, the
      potential is there, but it is not yet actual. And we go on
      reading the Gita and the Upanishads and the Bible, and we
      go on feeling that we are the soul - the seed thinking that
      it is the tree. The tree is hidden there, but it is yet to
      be uncovered. And it is good to remember that you may
      remain a seed, and you may die a seed - because the tree
      cannot come, the tree cannot sprout by itself. You have to
      do something consciously about it, because only through
      consciousness it grows.

      There are two types of growth. One is unconscious, natural
      growth: if the situation is there, the thing will grow. But
      the soul, the atma, the innermost being, the divine within
      you, is a different type of growth altogether. It is only
      through consciousness that it grows. It is not natural, it
      is supernatural.

      Left to nature itself it will not grow; just left to
      evolution it will never evolve. You have to do something
      consciously, you have to make a conscious effort about it,
      because only through consciousness it grows. Once
      consciousness is focused there, the growth happens."


      Nora asks: Speaking of Andrew Cohen, does anyone have a
      link to a website that has his mother's experiences with
      him? seem to remember reading about it from a link someone
      posted a long time ago


      Love, Sarlo


      Gloria Lee shares:

      From "Four Quartets" by T.S. Eliot


      We shall not cease from exploration

      And the end of all our exploring

      Will be to arrive where we started

      And know the place for the first time.

      Harsha: Thanks Gloria. This is a beautiful verse. It seems
      to nicely describe the context of the spiritual search and



      Talk about having things backwards.

      Two things I realized I had backwards:

      1. In "realizing one's nothingness," I always thought what
      was nothing was the Self because it didn't feel like
      anything (i.e. no sense of self) but what I have come to
      realize is that what is nothing is all the stuff I thought
      was "me."

      2. Second thing is that awakening means awakening to life.
      I thought it meant awakening to the Self. The Self already
      is awake. As I am, I am asleep or dead really and as Jesus
      said..."Let the dead bury the dead." It is the white bag
      blowing in the breeze. When awake, the whole of me responds
      to life; otherwise there is only fragmented reaction. It
      can be rational, emotional, or sensation but the key thing
      is that it is not whole but fragmented.



      There was and is no body, no world. Over and over people
      used to say things to Nisargadatta claiming he had a body
      and that he acted and he would plead not guilty. One
      example is someone wondered why he was smoking a cigarette?
      Nisargadatta said: If you examine it, you will see it is
      your I am the body idea that makes you perceive the I see
      you smoking idea. For those still under the delusion of the
      ego it appears Ramana had a body, and that there is and was
      a world. Those in whom the ego notion has ended have made
      it clear there never have been any bodies and there never
      have been any worlds. someone, maybe xan recently posted an
      excellent Teaching of Bhagavan Ramana of how there is no
      all for God to pervade. All these thoughts about sages
      having a body, and there being a world, are thoughts of an
      all. There is no all. All is one may be a good stepping
      stone view, because it is so difficult for a human to see
      there is no all. However all is not one because there is no
      all. There is only One. That One has always existed by
      itself, with no worlds, no beings, no universe, no this and
      no that. Just Infinite Empty Awareness.



      UARLOVE: Ending the illusion is the purpose of the effort
      and the Inquiry Who am I? Effort does not apply to Being
      the Self according to the Teachings of Bhagavan Ramana.
      Effort does apply to ending the ego

      MIGUEL-ANGEL: You seem very much in love with effort. May I
      ask whose effort?

      The mind's effort? Hardly. The source of the problem can't
      be the agent of the solution. The ego's effort? Impossible.
      The ego can only try to survive. It can't possibly commit
      suicide. The Self's effort? Out of the question. The Self
      doesn't act. It's not a doer. Whose effort then?

      Don't you see that the very idea of effort is part of the
      (false) problem? "Effort" is as empty an idea as that of
      free will, or individual independence. The idea of "effort"
      (and that of free will) are based on another, equally
      wrong, idea : "personal doership". Only if there are
      separate independent agents is it possible to speak of
      effort or free will. But can you see our body-mind
      organisms as separate, independent, free agents? Only if
      you subscribe to the dualist philosophy, which states the
      existence of the individual souls as separate substances.
      For nondualism there is only consciousness, and only one.
      Therefore there are no separate souls, no individual
      entities, no personal agents, no free doers, no

      The idea of effort is clearly dualistic. It arises from a
      split carried out by the mind : first the continuum of the
      manifestated is divided into two parts: ego as a separate
      entity and the rest of the world. Then this imaginary ego
      is seen as facing the world (including there one's
      personality) and trying to control it. But this split is a
      chimera. There is absolutely no division in the manifested.
      It is all a continuum, an undivided whole, and not existing
      in itself but in consciousness.

      There is only Consciousness and its contents. No part of
      Consciousness can be a separate entity, because IT has no
      parts. And no part of ITS contents (the manifested world of
      phenomena) can be a separate entity either, because
      consciousness' contents have no substance, no individual
      entity. Therefore nothing can be a separate entity. So, in
      the absence of a separate entity, where is effort?

      All idea of effort is an illusion. As is the very idea of
      doeship. As is the very idea of a goal, of something to
      achieve. As is the very idea that something needs mending.

      All is as it is. All is as it must.



      Thank you for the recent posts on the ego notion. Yah, it's
      just a notion. But never forget - all is One. :-))

      If your ego is identified with your name, it may be time
      for a new name. Below is a tool for finding your new 'true'
      name. Enjoy!


      Read directions carefully - this is hilarious!

      All of us have a small child somewhere within us, and when
      you get your new name, chances are you'll end up giggling
      just like a child.

      The following is an excerpt from a children's book,
      "Captain Underpants and the Perilous Plot of Professor
      Poopypants," by Dav Pilkey:

      The evil Professor forces everyone to assume new names ....

      Use the FIRST letter of your first name to determine your
      NEW first name:

      a stinky

      b lumpy

      c buttercup

      d dorkey

      e crusty

      f greasy

      g fluffy

      h cheeseball

      i chim-chim

      j poopsie

      k flunky

      l booger

      m pinky

      n zippy

      o goober

      p doofus

      q slimy

      r loopy

      s snotty

      t falafel

      u gidget

      v squeezit

      w oprah

      x skipper

      y dinky

      z zsa-zsa

      Use the FIRST letter of your last name to determine the
      first half of your NEW last name:

      a diaper

      b toilet

      c giggle

      d bubble

      e girdle

      f barf

      g lizard

      h waffle

      i cootie

      j monkey

      k potty

      l liver

      m banana

      n rhino

      o burger

      p hamster

      q toad

      r gizzard

      s pizza

      t gerbil

      u chicken

      v pickle

      w chuckle

      x tofu

      y gorilla

      z stinker

      Use the LAST letter of your last name to determine the
      second half of your NEW last name:

      a head

      b mouth

      c face

      d nose

      e tush

      f breath

      g pants

      h shorts

      i lips

      j honker

      k butt

      l brain

      m tushie

      n chunks

      o hiney

      p biscuits

      q toes

      r buns

      s fanny

      t sniffer

      u sprinkles

      v kisser

      w squirt

      x humperdinck

      y brains

      z juice

      Thus, for example, George Bush's new name is Fluffy
      Toiletshorts.....and Al Gore would be Stinky Lizardtush,
      pretty fitting!


      We are the Nonduality Generation.
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