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HIGHLIGHTS - July 9th 2000

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  • Manchine
    EGO NOTION: JERRY: I subscribe to the methods given by Ramana and Nisargadatta. However, because they discovered them and had bestowed upon them the Grace
    Message 1 of 1 , Jul 10, 2000

      I subscribe to the methods given by Ramana and Nisargadatta.
      However, because they discovered them and had bestowed upon
      them the Grace which would allow them to teach the methods
      to the world, and to teach them simply by their presence,
      doesn't mean they hold an exclusive primary knowledge of
      those methods, leaving others to hold a secondary knowledge.

      Very many can go back to childhood and recall a time when
      they asked a question similar to 'Who am I?'. That too is a
      Grace bestowed upon an individual. It may not lead to a
      flowering on the order of Ramana, or a facility with words
      on the order of Nisargadatta, but it can be valued,
      contemplated, meditated upon, and one can in time determine
      that it is a teaching or method on the order of what Sages

      It doesn't automatically mean that a person who discovers
      the inquiry independently is as spiritually developed, as
      smart, wise, charismatic, intelligent, insightful, useful,
      powerful, beautiful, graceful, impactful as a Sage.

      It only means they independently discovered the key to the
      Self. That independent discovery is going to be as powerful
      than anything a Sage says or is, because it is a direct
      teaching. It's direct knowledge. It is the Sage.

      I have experienced that is was Rajneesh (Osho) and Adi Da
      (Da Free John) who cleared the garbage away so that I could
      seriously re-visit my childhood experiences in which inquiry
      was discovered and mantras were given. Those men were the
      garbage men. Ramana and Nisargadatta were already at my
      heart. They were what I already was. Rajneesh and Adi Da
      showed me that. In current days, as a more refined 'garbage'
      constantly imposes itself, I have found that the people on
      the lists have replaced Rajneesh and Adi Da. Gene Poole has
      made a great effort, publicly and privately, in that regard.

      grateful to everyone and everything,

      Thank you, Jerry. I found a great deal of teaching and love in the
      popular music of my time. I've learned much of what I know from rock
      and roll...

      Let's Get Together

      Love is but the song we sing,
      And fear's the way we die
      You can make the mountains ring
      Or make the angels cry
      Know the dove is on the wing
      And you need not know why

      C'mon people now,
      Smile on your brother
      Ev'rybody get together
      Try and love one another right now

      Some will come and some will go
      We shall surely pass
      When the one that left us here
      Returns for us at last
      We are but a moments sunlight
      Fading in the grass

      C'mon people now,
      Smile on your brother
      Ev'rybody get together
      Try and love one another right now

      C'mon people now,
      Smile on your brother
      Ev'rybody get together
      Try and love one another right now


      C'mon people now,
      Smile on your brother
      Ev'rybody get together
      Try and love one another right now

      If you hear the song I sing,
      You will understand
      You hold the key to love and fear
      All in your trembling hand
      Just one key unlocks them both
      It's there at your command

      C'mon people now,
      Smile on your brother
      Ev'rybody get together
      Try and love one another right now

      C'mon people now,
      Smile on your brother
      Ev'rybody get together
      Try and love one another right now

      C'mon people now,
      Smile on your brother
      Ev'rybody get together
      Try and love one another right now

      Right now
      Right now!

      Perhaps trying is not the final step in the dance, but I don't care. I
      love you anyway. All of you.


      Some Vernon Howard quotes:

      474. "The invented self is rudeness itself."

      475. "There is a definite connection between
      mental sickness and bad manners.
      Watch for the connection.
      As you mingle with people,
      watch how neurosis frequently lashes out at people
      with contemptuous behaviour
      and outrageous demands.
      The problem is that mental sickness
      never sees bad manners as bad manners,
      which is what keeps it sick and bad."

      476. "Unpleasant behaviour is sick behaviour.
      Few people want to think about this fact.
      Unpleasant people are sick people.
      You know the thousand varieties of unpleasantness
      including sarcastic accusations,
      delerious demands,
      repulsive self-worship,
      a cold and hostile face.
      If another person is unpleasant,
      realize that your wish for sunlight
      must have nothing to do with his darkness."

      477. "An inconsiderate person does not see
      how much unecessary work he selfishly piles on others.
      Not seeing this fact,
      he hurts with unbelieving indignation
      when told about it."

      478. "People are surly and rude because their
      attention is locked in the downward position.
      They have become what they have attended to."

      479. " Plain and simple courteous behaviour?
      Self-centeredness never heard of it."

      480. "Courtesy can't be explained to a rude mind"

      481. "Connect suffering with rudeness"

      482. "If your behaviour is unpleasant,
      see that you have chosen midnight over noon
      and see that you will stumble
      and fall in your own darkness."

      483. "The only way to have good manners
      is to wake up."

      So what am I supposed to 'do' with the insights quoted? It
      corners me into self-centered behavior. Maybe it's elsewhere
      in Vernon Howard's writings, and elsewhere within the sphere
      of your own intent, but I don't hear any compassion for the
      mentally ill and those who behave unpleasantly. That is more
      important than whether I personally am bent toward noon or

      Good question there Jerry. We humans exhibit all kinds of
      behaviours. They range from hate filled facism to love filled
      compassion. From scritpure thumping fundamentalists to
      incomprehensible mystics.

      In the past (for me) it was just natural to fall into judgement.
      I thought that people had some 'control' over thier attitudes and
      beliefs. (Nah, I don't know if it's 'free will' or 'destiny' - and
      I just do not care anymore what that answer is)

      Then I made the 'mistake' (joking) of asking the Universe what
      the real meaning of it all is. The incondensable truth just
      destroyed me. :-)) Best thing that ever happened.

      Compassion! :-)) Oh, my Goodness! The I AM so thoroughly enjoys being
      all countless beings are Being! Darn it - gettin' all mystic
      eyed again.

      I hope you will be healed enough for a great big hug this weekend!

      Loveya all!


      Peace - Michael


      Hello list,

      Firstly I want to say hi to all the old listbuddies- I've been off-list
      for sometime and decided to come back in for a few moments. Jerry, I
      hope you feeling all better- I read about the hospital stay.

      regarding the "only one adequate means":

      I've been listening in on uarelove's messages and have been in an
      inquiry regarding how he is communicating. I've been watching my
      reactions to what has been occuring to me as a narrow and competitive
      view. It's been a great teacher to me becuase questions of "right
      teaching, right teacher, right path, right method, right this, right
      that" is a classic trigger for me. All of a sudden there is fear,
      uncertainty, worry, concern along with looking to defend and protect.
      The wondering about getting it, will I ever get it,....It presses my
      search button.

      It's a challenge to be with the fear and uncertainty without moving into
      making someone wrong and getting into the "right" position.

      I have been looking at myself in uarelove's communication and noticing
      my own urge to get validation, to use someone's words to prove or
      disprove something. I have also noticed the urge to make this
      uncertainty, fear and hurt a problem to be solved by the "right method".

      what has come up for me is that Love is what makes a method, teacher or
      path right. Love for Love. Out of this Love comes the energy to see and
      burn up what is simply false. It's love that seeks to be true becuase
      it loves itself. Otherwise, it comes from some strategy to become
      something, get somewhere, and be "right" in doing so.

      If it's coming from being "right", the inquiry is a game and promises
      the timeless somewhere in time. If it arises from a stand in/as Love
      then it's the noticing and letting go of suffering here and now.

      To uarelove: this may or may not apply to you but I invite you to
      inquire into who you are being in this matter- I mean, where you are
      coming from- being right or being love.

      PETROS posted to his list:

      "Get out of the construction business. Stop building bridges
      across the raging waters of samsaric existence, attempting to
      reach the 'far shore,' nirvana.

      Better to simply relax, at ease and carefree, in total
      naturalness, and just go with the primordial flow, however it
      occurs and happens. And remember this: whether or not you go
      with the flow, it always goes with you."


      As swimmers dare
      to lie face to the sky
      and water bears them,
      as hawks rest upon air
      and air sustains them,
      so I would learn to attain
      freefall and float
      into Creator Spirit's deep embrace,
      knowing no effort earns
      that all surrounding grace.

      ~ Denise Levertov


      Jerry you have given a good description, of what makes
      Vernon Howard quite different from all the other "Teachers"
      that I have encountered. As far a being cornered that is
      very much a good description. However this being cornered
      was so intensely magnified in Vernon Howards classes with
      Vernon Howard there. And the being cornered and the
      apparant lack of compasssion were related and part of the
      same Teaching device.

      I accept that anything can be a teaching device.

      Most of the Teachers I have
      encountered do not speak with a threatening tone. However
      Vernon Howard did. Arriving at Vernon Howards classes there
      was the sense that one had been tricked. It is something
      like one thinking oh great I am going to now get a chance
      to attend the classes of the Teacher who wrote these
      excellent books. And then one goes to the class, and to get
      a better view sits in the front row and there is a lion
      sitting there in the chair instead of a Spiritual Teacher.
      Or one might say it was like going to a class and finding
      that one is caught in a web and a spider is sitting in the
      chair. Vernon Howard was bizarre. I attended his classes
      three times a week for three months in Boulder City, Nevada
      around 23 years ago. At the new life web site they have
      sound clips of Vernon Howard. However they are not
      selecting any clips of Vernon Howard screaming at the top
      of his lungs. Vernon Howard was very sucessful in this
      cornering of the ego notion. So people in the class did not
      exhibit self centered behaviour. It was sort of like
      someone having a hand gun to ones head saying if you dare
      play even one of your little ego games with me your brains
      will be on the table. So no one played due to his tremdous
      ability to convey a sense of seriousness and threat.

      Thank you for your description and for your entire

      I remember there was one odd women who
      had a few followers who came for a visit to the class
      and she was told to raise her hand before speaking
      she started to say "I resent...." vernon just
      looked at her and raised his hand,
      it was that don't you dare look.
      She did not go beyond the word resent.
      She said only the two words. It reminds me of
      some kind of power, some kind of siddhi maybe.
      Vernon Howard was truly amazing at conveying
      that there is a rattlesnake in front of you
      and the only way to be safe is to not play
      a single ego game now.

      Those who come to a teacher will benefit if they listen
      to the teacher and do what the teacher tells them to do.
      It's probably an extreme teaching or measure that's needed
      to yank out the arrow upon which one is impaled. It's an
      easier teaching that numbs the pain and details and
      decorates the arrow. I feel there's room for both kinds of
      teachings, but the arrow has to come out one way or the
      other, so Vernon Howard sounds like he's doing some dirty
      work that has to be done. I read one of his books of verses
      many years ago.

      The lack of compassion for the ego notion runs
      throughout Vernon Howards Teachings.
      The atmosphere was somewhat concentration camp like.
      One of the rules upon first arriving in the class
      was I was not to speak to any females in the class.
      If they approached me to talk I could respond
      however I was not to approach them and speak to them.
      Why? because that was not the purpose of the class.
      The purpose of the class was not a social club.
      I once asked Vernon Howard

      "Is the purpose of this class
      to end the illusion of the ego"
      He asked me to repeat the question so I repeated it.
      Vernon said "Yes. Well stated"
      The purpose of the classes were not to indulge the
      ego, pretending such indulgence and play is actually
      a way to end the ego notion illusion, as is so
      common in satsangs today. Vernon Howard had
      zero tolerance and
      zero compassion for the ego notion.

      Attending Vernon Howard's class I can understand that
      one will see that compassion is an ego game. This is one way
      of teaching. It's an outward teaching directed inward.
      Nisargadatta or Ramana teach from inward out, as I see it.
      Everyone teaches with varying degrees of both. Not every
      teacher has radical nondual perspective, however.

      Reality has no qualities. No compassion, no love, no
      peace, no qualities. But that's not the case either. There
      is neither the presence nor absence of qualities. Nonduality
      means not-two, sameness, homogeneity. It doesn't mean the
      presence or absence of anything. It means neither this nor
      not this. So while I'm getting a better idea of who Vernon
      Howard is, I'm still hearing his big NO, when I'd like to
      hear a big NEITHER NO NOR NOT NO.

      The Self neither has nor lacks qualities. That
      perspective, which is nondual, gives enormous freedom. It
      does not mean that the Self is whole, complete, perfect,
      alone. There is no freedom in such a description. Regardless
      of what you or Vernon Howard think or teach, I am speaking,
      I am speaking perfectly and freely and I am capable of
      showing some compassion and certainly capable of withholding
      it as well.

      On the other hand, were I in Vernon Howard's classroom
      I would sit perfectly still, not question him, and allow him
      to work. I can do that because I am a free person capable of
      doing that. I don't stand up for anything. I don't declare
      reality to be this or that way or the Self to be Whole. I
      wouldn't dare. I am free to ask where the compassion is
      because I reside in the interval that opens when it is
      understood that the Self, Reality, is neither Whole nor not

      No one can be your teacher. No one can influence you.
      The real teacher is no influence, and that means nothing is
      done, nothing is taught, or, rather, there is neither
      teaching nor no teaching. It is quite okay if people keep
      their ego games and think they know more than I do. I have
      no teaching to assault. I know the ego games will melt like
      a salt doll in the ocean.

      Thanks for the opportunity to make a few statements.

      uarelove :
      Vernon once said:
      "God is a NO a thousand miles high"
      Vernon said a NO a thousand miles high to the ego
      notion in every class that he gave.
      And his don't you DARE play an ego game with me
      theme ran throughout his teaching, and that
      Don't and that dare where a thousand miles high also.
      Regarding your not hearing any compassion for the
      mentally ill etc. I never heard any compassion for
      the ego notion coming from Vernon Howard.
      His way was more like if one had a cancer to
      cut out the cancer. Not to coddle it,
      no to nuture it, no to help it grow,
      just to cut it out and end it.

      Compassion is a part of the ego dream.
      The Self is not in need of Compassion
      it is whole, complete , perfect and alone.
      There is no one whom one could have
      compassion for.

      Bhagavan Ramana once said referring to the
      bodhisattva vow of not attaining the final
      liberation until all sentient beings have
      been liberated:
      "it is like saying I will not wake up from the
      dream until all the dream characters have
      awakened from the dream"

      Regarding compassion being more important than
      if you are bent to noon or to midnight.
      This brings up something significant about how
      one approaches a Teaching. If I am studying
      Vernon Howard, as an example, what matters is only
      if Vernon Howard finds being bent toward noon
      or midnight more important or if he finds compassion
      to be more important. Whatever opinions I may have
      have gathered have no importance,
      with this one exception:
      it is good to be aware of any such opinions
      because then I can make sure they do not
      influence the study. If one is not aware of them
      then they will gather evidence to support their
      view. So it is good to be aware of them
      and then to not allow them to influence the
      One day at the Vernon Howard class a sign had been
      added and it said in really huge letters:
      "If you know more than the Teacher
      what are you doing in this class?"
      Where does one find aspirants who do not
      think they know better than the sages?
      Such aspirants are so rare.
      This manifests itself in so many ways,
      subtle, complex, clever intepretations.
      Thinking one has discovered the "flaw"
      in a Sages Teaching or some way to improve it.
      Such people probably know better than to
      take the knife out of the surgeons hand
      and begin cutting trying out one of their pet
      theories. However this same wisdom that lets
      them know better than to do that,
      does not apply to their approach to
      a Sages Teaching. This is because the
      ego notion wishes to preserve itself
      and it has millions of such strategies for doing so.
      There was one form of self centered behaviour
      that one could engage in regarding the
      Vernon Howard classes. That is to leave them.
      That was an option available to the cornered ego.

      Vernon once said:
      "Everyone who leaves this class raises
      the level of this class"
      Vernon Howard once said that "in some
      esoteric classes the use of the words
      love and peace is prohibited"

      Why this is:
      what humans call love and peace
      is not love and peace.
      Love and Peace are ways that one could
      attempt to describe the Self.
      So instead of focussing on a fantasy
      about love and peace,
      proceeding to end ego notion illusion
      was recommended.

      The web page for new life (Vernon Howard)is:

      Vernon Howards body is no longer living.
      If there is such a thing as a compassionate act
      that the ego notion can do,
      the ego notion ending the ego notion
      would be that compassionate act.



      I have a model that works for me.
      You have yours.
      There's a model where the Earth
      is green and emerald blue.

      It's our model.

      A disasterous volvano
      smashes the model,
      throwing smoke and
      fire into the clear blue

      The sea crashing to the shore
      for 10's of thousands of years
      longer than any of our ancestors
      can remember.

      But you know,
      there's a model where
      the Earth was filled
      with majestic volcanos
      spewing fire at ever turn.
      The twisting and decisive
      flow of red hot lava,
      the blood of the Earth
      for 100's of thousands of years.

      Huh! who the hell are we?
      Fucken assholes, think they own the Earth!
      Think what you will.
      I love you!


      Hello Jerry and everyone. Just came back into town and will try
      to catch up with some of the e-mail tomorrow. Enjoyed reading your
      thoughts Jerry as always. I remember Jerry writing sometime ago
      that when he was young he thought something like, "no matter what
      the sages say, I am still me or still will be me ......." Dan has
      said something to the effect that, "Hold no head above your own."
      Profound understanding, it seems to me.

      Once when I was 13 or so and sitting in the verandah quietly,
      I had a clear sense of the past. Then a strong stream of thoughts
      arose again and again and I thought it was my obligation to state
      clearly that if one ever has to choose between a guru (spiritual
      teacher) and the truth, one should always choose what one feels
      deeply as the truth, regardless of who the teacher is. I remember
      the arising of those thoughts spontaneously and with an amazing
      force to indicate clearly that a genuine teacher is not separate
      from the truth and can therefore can impart such a teaching. So
      when Dan says, "Hold no head above your own", it makes perfect


      Petros will be at the HS/NDS gathering next week in
      Providence along with 15 others. I think there is still
      lodging available for a few more and there are motels

      Yes!! Plenty of lodging at the Zen center, and meals are included for
      $55/day. If you
      got the urge to join us, please at least email me so I can notify Zen Center
      ASAP, by
      Monday would be nicer! You can pay when you get there. I have a list of area
      to email out to anyone who has that preference. It's gonna be something..and
      something else too. Please join us.
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