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NDS highlights for Saturday, June 17

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  • Melody
    MICHAEL JOHNSON: When you get here it is now there and you are here and then it is now there.... And so it goes.... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ MICHAEL JOHNSON
    Message 1 of 1 , Jun 18, 2000

      When you get here
      it is now there and
      you are here and then
      it is now there....

      And so it goes....

      MICHAEL JOHNSON quotes Byron Katie:

      "The world doesn't exist and we just come to
      see that clearly. It's all an illusion. It never did
      exist. There is no way it can exist-it's all the
      reflection of a concept attached to inside.
      There is No One and Nothing. It's literal. Are
      you ready to live without a world? Is that what
      you really want? Are you willing to lose the

      -Byron Katie, Losing the Moon


      I relate to Castanada's bubble. What I normally see as the world
      is a reflection back of the inside of my own bubble of perception.
      This does not mean that there is not a real world out there. It is just
      that I am not real so I cannot see it.

      Life is Real Only Then, When "I Am"

      (title of the Third Series of All and Everything by Gurdjieff)

      Life as I KNEW IT never existed.


      Is here where the body is? Is here where awareness is? Is here in the body, is the
      body in here? When the body dies does here die too? Does here appear and disappear?
      When I stub my toe, here seems to be in my toe. I wonder just exactly where here is.
      How big is here? How do I recognize it? So many questions, no answers here.

      Here neither Andrew :-)
      And the same goes for 'now'.

      Fortunately, none of these answers are required, they are merely knowledge.


      Maybe the answer isn't where here is but whether here is apparent. If
      not, there is just absorption in thinking or some other obnubilation.


      JERRY offers:

      Wei Wu Wei's Open Secret is available through Hong Kong
      University Press at

      His book Posthumous Pieces is available in photocopy form
      UMI Books on Demand 300 North Zeeb Road P.O. Box 1346 Ann
      Arbor, MI 48106-1346 800-521-0600

      Where did I get this information from? Stanley Sobottka's
      A Course in Consciousness at


      In the forword he divides it into two courses, one group of chapters with the physics,
      one group without. I've looked through the non-physics chapters, they're very good,
      and pretty strait forward easy going, mostly familiar stuff but well presented. I
      especially like the chapter on inquiry, Chapter 22. The physics chapters are much
      tougher at least to me.


      MICHAEL offers a website for a discussion of free will:




      I was reading the stuff about the Vedanta Center, and had a couple
      of thoughts.

      First I must start by saying that I don't know most of the terms
      like samadhi let alone nirvakalpa samadhi, but I think I followed
      what you were saying.

      Anyways, in my experience, it appears that there are two basic
      "ways". 1) That one prepares to be receptive to grace, so that when it comes
      one recognizes its message, or 2) that grace comes and leaves a couple of
      big ones, which leads to figuring out what the heck's going on.

      Anyways, whichever way, I'm not sure that it really matters. Whatever
      happens for each "individual" is the prescribed medicine.

      With respect to realization, well, I think that's a hard one. We've seen
      here that there is quite a bit of contraversy over what it actually is
      and whether there is even anyone here that has attained such a state.
      I think that this is because there are various levels of "realization". I
      come to realize a few fairly major things: That which we see in front of us
      is not what it seems to be, there is some incredible reality of being behind
      all of this, that the "I" that I thought was me, seems to be separate from
      this being and that the reason for that is because "I" am not, and there IS
      no separation.

      Each of these realizations happened one at a time. At each turn, each one
      of them was profound and I felt "realized". Well, I did get to "realize"
      each of these things, and they were no "ordinary things" to realize. So
      where does "grace" come in and where does "self effort" play?

      I had long periods between some of these realizations. I think fortunately
      for me, my first experience came (seemingly) involuntarily. I just out of
      the blue saw something. What followed was inquirey. Was that inquirey fired
      by grace or self effort? I could have just as well dumped what I saw and
      forgotten all about it, I think that happens a lot. For me actually, a long
      passed. Not much self effort. Grace was strong, because the first experience
      was strong enough to leave serious doubts. Grace again opened the door to
      prod me into inquiring a little. A series of events dropped key material and
      information into my lap.

      A long time passed, I got into it, I fell out, blah, blah, but advanced
      by little. Finally I got to where something told me (grace again) that NOW
      it was MY turn to make the effort. Finally after way too long, I had to
      and with effort, take up the task of completing the journey.

      We keep getting to points, where we think we have the picture clear. We feel
      this and we feel that, and there comes a fairly dangerous point, I feel,
      we feel that there's nothing more to do! Just bask in the glory of
      That's where a "pure mind" comes in. To get beyond that point starts

      So what does "pure mind" mean. Not thinking about sex? Not using bad
      How about not being tied up with routine problems? How about any thing that
      places your focus in the illusion? The illusion is beautiful, but more for
      connection to the source than for it's "beauty".

      Lack of purity leaves one open to moving away from the source. A single
      crack makes separation visible. Visible separation makes one feel that
      it is OK to be separate.

      So we can come a long way. I mean "I" am in heaven over my realizations, and
      have by no means a pure mind. But I'm beginning to see the depths of what
      ahead, for want of more purity. That's the other side of the coin. Once
      seen to a certain level, can you maintain a stable balance?

      Where is your balance? (rhetorical question, not directed at you jody :-)

      Can you feel the things that pull you away?

      Is thoughtless awareness of the things that pull you away part of your
      everyday activity?

      I guess it's less important exactly what you do (sex, agression, marriage),
      than it is just being aware of what's real, as much as possible.


      ED ARRONS:

      Strolling on St. George St.,
      4 levels of awareness are noticed:

      1) when 'individuals' and self are perceived and experienced as
      separate. Conversations occur but the feeling of separateness
      persist; there are moments of alienation, moments of horniness,
      and moments wanting to rise above it all.

      2) when the self and other become a whole; this is Pure Awareness;
      there is no inner or outer; no self; the 'other' appears unreal or
      dream-like; the Now seems absolute and unchanging...until it is
      suddenly dissolved by some compelling necessity or suppressed

      3) when self and other seem connected by words and thoughts yet
      'knowing' that the words and thoughts are ultimately meaningless;
      it is all very intellectual; ideas come and go disguised as non-ideas
      or dream-states; the "I" doesn't really exist; a persistent voice
      keeps saying "nothing really exists" as if to convince itself it is
      Pure Awareness. (This sometimes happens when writing to NDS :-))

      4) when self and other seem real and connected by feelings of
      resonance; everything seems alive with beauty and joy; mergings
      take place and dissolve; there is a Now that flows from event to
      event; there is no beginning, no end, yet somehow it gets lost,
      almost imperceptibly, in separation.

      These states come and go without choice, though it often seems as
      if will activates them. There is always a compelling motive for
      any 'choice'...which is seen upon reflection to be of prior existence.

      Which state of awareness will prevail is anybody's guess.

      Take a stroll on St. George St. sometime and...
      Be kind to yourself .


      from JAMES BEAN:

      Translated from Hindi by Vijay Munshi


      Says Kabir: the clouds of love have gathered
      raining over me
      my soul soaked within
      green woods around.

      Says Kabir: do not be proud
      seeing your mansion
      tomorrow you will lie beneath the earth
      tufts of grass over you.

      Says Kabir: those who do not love God
      know no joy
      like a guest in an empty house
      they come and depart.

      Your God dwells within you
      like fragrance in the flower
      musk lies within the deer
      yet seeks it afar.

      Worlds pass away reading scriptures
      none the wiser
      he who understands the word `Love'
      is the wise one.

      The Hindu says Ram is supreme
      the Muslim, Rahim
      both die fighting each other
      neither knowing the Truth.

      Remembering You ever
      egoless, I have merged with You
      no more the cycle of births and deaths
      wherever the eye goes I see You.

      Brimming with devotion to God I am
      this world tires me no more
      a pitcher once baked, says Kabir
      needs no potter's wheel again.

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