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Sunday/June 4

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  • umbada@ns.sympatico.ca
    Denial Does not remove The burden of memory But denial Stifles And that is pain Is pain of denial Better than the pain Of what is denied? Pain is unpleasant We
    Message 1 of 1 , Jun 6, 2000
      Does not remove
      The burden of memory

      But denial
      And that is pain

      Is pain of denial
      Better than the pain
      Of what is denied?

      Pain is unpleasant
      We turn away from pain
      What then, do we face?

      Can we face our denial
      Without pain
      If facing denial removes pain?

      What is denied
      Compressed in memory
      Becomes stimulating pressure

      Pressure imparts movement
      Movement away from pain
      Away from painful others

      Cheer is denial's companion
      Outer face smiles
      Inner face weeps

      Other's weeping reminds
      And threatens the lid of denial
      Thus forced cheer in compensation

      "If you don't bring it up
      I can keep it down
      Let's cooperate!"

      Thus stuffed,
      We march on
      Cheerfully pressured

      Looking for Big Answers
      Prescribed by Big Guys
      For Big Problems

      Losing ourselves
      In maps of meaning
      The blurring is deadening comfort

      Let not clarity dawn
      Let not denial be seen
      Let not pain be released

      Let the games continue
      For fear of the True Answer
      Which dependably arrives at last.

      ==GENE POOLE==

      Trading doubt for wonder.
      It is time.
      Time that I eat like breakfast,
      that sustains me,
      that my body is made of,
      my blood.

      He that I am forgives him that I was.
      I live where my word has been before me.
      Lay that word on my tongue.
      Let me keep yes and no unsplit.
      Don't let me talk my eyes into blindness.
      Blue sky of which heaven?
      This world AND the other.

      the slouching happy body
      rambles around,
      enjoying the smell
      of its own dung.

      in love,



      I was a bee,
      In every way
      You think I'm crazy?

      Then I was a tree,
      Slow, quiet, roots so cool,

      Once my whole Universe
      was nothing more than a corner
      where spiders weren't.
      My whole fucken Universe!

      What's the differnce
      between that and life.

      Do you know what I mean?




      Human beings have no independent or autonomous existence
      whether they accept the fact or not. And whether they like
      it or not, they are being helplessly lived within the vast
      totality of an imponderably intricate creation over which
      the have absolutely no control. --Balsekar

      JUDI: ******* Oh fine, NOW you tell us!! :-)

      -- Happy Days, Judi

      GLO: LOL, yeah, like if I had only known to say this when I
      was 16 and wrecked my Dad's car.

      See what I meant about these really GREAT excuses??

      Love, Glo


      Yes, and my dad said, "You're right, just like I'm
      helplessly being lived to ground you for a month. You'll be
      staying in your room after dinner, in this vast totality of
      imponderably intricate creation over which you have no

      Actually, he didn't really say that, and it wasn't actually
      about wrecking the car, but close enough!


      What follows is dedicated to my 80 year old mother who
      often refers to herself in the third person as "the old
      lady" (also the name she fondly calls her aged dog). Love
      may often seem fragile and fleeting and we wonder how it
      can survive in this crazy world, but I know it is stronger
      than all the difficulties and obstacles that can ever be
      put in its way, because I have known my mother. This is a
      part of D.T. Suzuki's introduction to the Japanese No play,
      "Yama-uba," in his words:

      Yama-uba, literally "the old woman of the mountains,"
      represents the principle of love secretly moving in every
      one of us. Usually we are not conscious of it and are
      abusing it all the time. Most of us imagine that love is
      something beautiful to look at, young, delicate and
      charming. But in fact she is not, for she works hard,
      unnoticed by us and yet ungrudgingly; what we notice is the
      superficial result of her labor, and we think it beautiful
      - which is natural, for the work of love ought to be
      beautiful. But love herself, like a hard-working peasant
      woman, looks rather worn out; from worrying about others
      her face is full of wrinkles, her hair is white. She has so
      many knotty problems presented for her solution. Her life
      is a series of pains, which, however, she glady suffers.
      She travels from one end of the world to another, knowing
      no rest, no respite, no interruption. Love in this phase,
      that is, from the point of view of her untiring labor, is
      fitly represented as Yama-uba, the old lady of the

      We ordinarily like to talk about such an agency in our
      philosophy, theology, and literature, but we do not go
      beyond mere talk, we hesitate to come before its actual
      presence. We are like the painter who used to paint the
      dragon, but who lost consciousness, as he was frightened in
      the extreme, when the dragon itself appeared to him in
      order to let him paint the mythical creature more
      faithfully to the reality. We sing of Yama-uba, but when
      she makes her personal appearance, and lets us see the
      inner side of her life, we are at a loss and know not what
      to with ourselves. If we want, therefore, to dig deeply
      into into the remotest recesses of our consciousness as Zen
      would advise, we ought not to shrink from taking hold of
      actualities with our own hands.



      The Question:

      "There appears to be two schools of thought relative to the
      issue of free will. One is like J. Krishnamurti's, which
      implies we have a kind of free will which we can use to
      break through delusion, and the other is like Balsekar's,
      which says there is no free will and that all is
      pre-determined, even the desire to break through. Somehow,
      my gut instinct tells me that Life is a like an
      improvisation rather than being a fixed script, and while I
      once had a powerful experience of being lived by Life, it
      still felt like an improvisation, a potential rather than a
      fixed plan. This also accords with quantum physics. What is
      your view of this issue? "

      My reply:

      If I move beyond the question being about 'feelings',
      'Instincts' and move into the realm of 'pure reason' (and
      don't say I Kant... ), this is what remains:

      Our exercise of "will" seems to be consistently geared
      toward self-limitation. It is within this constantly
      enforced field of self-limitation that the question of
      'free will' occurs. Without exercising our "will" in the
      service of self-limitation, the uses of "will" are quite

      The exercise of "Will" in the service of self-limitation
      can be seen clearly, in the human talent of the deferral of
      pain. From a Darwinian point of view, humans who could
      fight, run, or otherwise act to survive while _in pain_,
      are those survivors from whom we have inherited our genes.

      As masters of deferral of pain, we are by extension, also
      masters of deferral of embarrassment; we are able to
      confabulate 'alternative realities' for the purpose of
      remaining in the comfort of our own delusions. Our various
      cultures conspire within themselves, and with each-other,
      to maintain this allowance for extraordinary confabulation.

      It is ironic that what is a powerful talent for survival,
      can also be used to deny reality. On the other hand, the
      denial of mortality, the very delusion of it, can serve to
      lead cultural heros into battles of tribal and cultural
      preservation; it is hard to argue (logically) against
      conquest as a means of survival.

      Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately), each culture has
      evolved a unique 'religion', each of which has become the
      touchstone of the reality of the respective culture. The
      clashes, conflicts, and wars which have arisen around
      religion, indicate the sacrifice which humans are willing
      to make, in order to maintain what is certainly and purely

      If the "script" is "fixed", it is 'fixed' in the same way
      that professional wrestling is 'fixed'. Human interactions
      are either manifested through self-limitation, or not. It
      takes only one human who acts in the non-self-limited way,
      to send shockwaves through all cultures, both present and
      future. The 'fixing of the script' calls for naming any of
      non-self-limited human to be 'abnormal and dangerous to the
      status-quo', thus to preserve the privilege (cultural
      tradition) to indulge in group-confabulations of 'reality
      as revealed by messengers of the divine'.

      Currently, most humans subscribe to what amounts to a
      'religion of self-limitation'. It is those who have seen a
      glimmer of what could happen if self-limitation were an
      option, rather than a 'divinely enforced duty', who dare
      question the reality or uses of "will". Proper and ethical
      uses of 'will' do not transcend humanity, rather, such uses
      are manifestations of what can eventually become a
      'choiceless compassion'.

      Those humans who have, or are, advocating the correct uses
      of 'will', are by no mere coincidence, also known as
      compassionate humans. Empathic knowing of our human
      commonality can lead to a mass-migration of humans away
      from the mandatory religion of self-limitation; this
      involves the withdrawal of our projections of 'divinity'
      from a mythical 'other', and the acceptance of personal
      responsibility for the correct use of 'will'. No longer
      would humans be burdened with the 'will' of a capricious
      'god'; instead, human activities would be considered
      carefully before execution.

      Leaving behind the culturally-enforced mandate of
      self-limitation, allows the sudden and spontaneous
      perfection of the human. In that brilliant perfection, all
      self-limiting ideas and traditions are clearly seen,
      including the entire category of self-limiting assumptions
      of 'ego' and 'ignorance', both of which are now being used
      as sly excuses for self-limitation. Any individual who
      dares allow the spontaneous perfection of the human to
      occur, moves beyond the fears which mandate hiding within
      apparently eternal conundrums such as the 'question of free
      will'. Bereft of any such camouflage, the perfected human
      is free to choose.


      Dear NDS,

      I will be off-line for the upcoming week. Taking my leave
      for a while, crossing moon-river in style ;-)

      Thank you Salon members for being you. Appreciation for the
      Self that is shared here. Many vibrations resounding as the
      Great Drum. "This" has taught and been taught well; I leave
      peacefully and happily, knowing that wherever I go, "This"

      Blessings, Dan



      Yeah well personally I'll take the combo platter, a heaping
      helping of crispy fried determinism so I'm not to blame
      along with a big pile of fresh steaming free will so I can
      be forgiven. Then I'll have a big slice of nihilist black
      cherry tart for dessert with a double existentialist
      espresso and a meaningless cognac.



      "What if God was one of us... just a slob like one of us,
      just a stranger on a bus, tryin' to make his way home?"

      "One Of Us," from "relish" by Joan Osborne

      Words & music by Eric Bazilian



      Yes, we feel pain and we poop. And it is all real. I do not
      care what anybody says about it being an illusion. I know
      also that it is an illusion. The impossible we do before
      breakfast. The improbable just takes a little longer.

      I am so grateful for this little lifestream called Michael.
      He's fairly cool. After all the shit he's been through, he
      turned out alright. So, who created him, who animates him,
      who gives him a part to play in the illusion? Well - you
      know - THAT did. :-))

      This is the situation of all of us: we have a part to play.
      We can be whiners (no inference to you) or we can be
      fearless doers. Or, we 'perform' at some combination.

      The maya is not evil nor is it good. It just appears, THAT
      made it. This is a form of enlightenment. Acceptance.

      Ah, I gotta go now. I am 'caught up' in the illusion that I
      have even the foggiest idea of what I am typeing about!


      Peace - Love IT and Live IT - Michael


      I have been browsing around the nds site. This gem was more
      than worth the trip:




      Free will, if it is willed at all, can only be exercised in
      the eternal now. This one moment in time is all I have free
      will over -- or do I? Am I typing this now as a result of my
      free will to do so, or is it just happening, now?


      Suggested link featured selection from Eckhart Tolle's new



      Friends come and go, the sangam remains, even with new
      faces it is the same.


      Sangam is my rendering of a word that appears in many
      forms, depending on -- i guess -- which language/dialect it
      is taken from (Sanskrit, Pali, Hindi etc) and which system
      of transliteration is used. Other forms are sangha and
      sanga, and the root in satsang. It means -- again depending
      blah blah -- fellowship, community, etc and refers, as i
      understand it, to the group of fellow-travellers around an
      enlightened master, extended to include such gatherings as
      NDS. It doesn't mean you have to love and be friendly with
      every one of your fellow-travellers, it means to recognise
      our common interest in waking up and some other generally
      commonly held group self-definition -- for NDS perhaps best
      left undefined, but in the usual scenario, a kind of
      acceptance of the master. The point of the group
      self-definition is not an us-vs-them state but a kind of
      trust, even though individuals may be distrusted, and
      openness to insightful feedback. There has been lots of
      discussion of NDS as guru, sangam is perhaps a more
      accurate description. Or not. Your call.



      The difficulty with rational, logical discourses is that
      they are all in the head. Round, and round, and round
      and......... one dimensional.

      Where is the heart? And the life situations? We all eat, we
      brush our teeth, we feel lonely sometimes, and joyful at
      others. We get scared at funny noises. We have questions
      about what is right and how to do something.


      In other words we are human. Non-duality is true of all
      existence, of all manifest and unmanifest worlds. And then
      here we are, flesh and blood. Feeling, emoting, thinking,
      moving, sensing. All this talk of illusion, and impersonal
      reality is a mystery to me.(the way it is talked about, not
      the reality itself). Everything is very real, very tangible
      to me. I would never for an instant think that all the
      misery and suffering that i see just walking down the
      street is an illusion. Or that the beauty of nature is just
      a projection of mind. Ego is a very tangible "force" that
      needs to be worked with.Physical pain is quite real to me,
      as is eating, taking a crap, waking up in the morning and
      going to sleep at night. Non-dual reality / enlightenment,
      is all there is, that is undeniable. Yet here we are,
      incarnated as human beings having to make peace with the
      also undeniable fact of duality. We all have "life
      situations" and need to deal with them and the dealing with
      them just so happens to be in the realm of duality. A life
      of suffering and ignorance is rooted in the assumption of
      separation. Piercing this assumption could be called
      awakening to already present enlightenment. However this
      awakening does not change, one iota, the fact that we exist
      in a dualistic world and must attend to it. What it does
      change is the way in which we relate, on all levels, to
      this world. Whether we have awakened to already present
      enlightenment or not, what we do does matter.


      We are the Nonduality Generation.
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