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NDS highlights for Saturday, May 20

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  • Melody
    To the question, When does the instinctual mind go? , JAN responds: One could say that first, the emotional memory (linked to small i ) goes and then the
    Message 1 of 2 , May 21, 2000
      To the question, "When does the instinctual mind go?",

      JAN responds:

      One could say that first, the emotional memory (linked to
      "small i") goes and then the "big I". No trace of a sense of
      individuality is left and it seems the end of "progress" (for
      many it is) although it can be the start of dissolving the
      last veil or superimposition, anandamaya kosha or sheath_of
      _bliss. But this also contains the instincts, being "freed"
      from the delusion by "i". This is the reason why Buddha made
      the distinction between nirvana with substratum remaining
      (meaning the instinctual mind) and nirvana without substratum
      remaining. The instinctual mind will start dying if one
      doesn't rejoice one's feelings. This isn't a matter of
      sadhana; that died along with the "small i" so the only
      "motive" (for lack of the proper word for it) NOT to rejoice
      one's (pure) feelings it the remaining feeling of separation
      from unconditional happiness that shone so brightly at the
      recognition and the successive demise of the "i and I". The
      similarity with a path of love will be clear...



      I don't know why I am sitting down to write this right now.
      I suppose I am in shock. My father just died as I was helping
      him back from the bathroom.

      I sat with the body. It grew cold very fast. I felt his spirit
      in the room. Nothing like my mother though. He had really
      left a long time ago.

      It was a long, long goodbye. I have been caring for dying
      parents for six years and now it is finally over.

      Through you I have felt your father's presence. I hope he
      looks peaceful and relieved. Recalling past lives, Xan said
      yesterday, "I remember the relief and freedom following
      physical death."

      Thank you for writing us, Marcia. I feel I'm with you.


      The carousel moving
      round and round....

      day after day,
      hour after hour.

      Same motion,
      same scenery

      over and over again

      until it finally stops.

      The silence
      that then remains

      can be thunderous.


      Thank you everyone and Melody the poem was beautiful
      and right to the point.

      I am a talker. I talk things out. So.....

      This feeling is very strange. All of us, my husband and my
      two daughters, and myself began to go down with this
      in the form of all the ways we could have been nicer or
      more attentive and so forth. We saw his shoes and it
      evoked tears.

      And yet, on the other hand, I was unaware of how totally
      aware I was of him. He was totally in my care. There was
      never a noise in the house that I didn't become alert and
      attentive as to whether he needed something. I didn't always
      feel very positive about it either. I was really trying to find a
      way to take my girls somewhere this summer and working
      hard to find respite care. Our family could never go anywhere
      together. I feel like I can be a mom again.

      He didn't get to the stage of lots of Alzheimer's people where
      he would be in the fetal position in bed unable to feed himself.
      He could walk and feed himself to the end. He went fast in
      the end. We were talking about how we really all said good-bye
      quite a few years ago because the man who he was just wasn't
      there any longer.He was pleasant and good natured but not


      You share today the pain of thousands,
      Know that it is the magnificent light
      of a nondual sunset,
      to dawn again.

      Thinking of you today.


      First here,
      then gone.

      Once touching,
      now vacant.

      Unable to hold
      you --
      yet present.

      This good-bye is,
      like all other good-byes,
      different from all

      What touched me
      is with me,
      yet moving
      through me.


      I found him. In my heart. We are
      talking. He is very happy and joyful.
      I wound never have believed this possible.
      It is all okay.



      You could also put the opening line as
      "Enlightenment is easy if you have no preferences."


      One could also construct the converse statement:
      "Nonenlightenment is difficult because of having preferences."

      One could notice that the first statement involves
      not preferring to avoid the state of the second statement,
      leading to this:

      "Neither easy nor difficult,
      neither avoiding preferences nor preferring avoidance,
      nonenlightenment is seen to be in no way separate
      from, nor other than enlightenment."



      They say there is nothing particular that leads to awakening,
      aside from "the spirit". I've never seen the statistics, maybe
      someone has them, but it seems that the less one "has", the more
      likely one is to reflect on what's left!


      Oh, so true! I used to think, when life was dealing doodoo to me,
      'Oh,God why me?'. Then one day I read something on the topic that
      simply stated - why not you? I just had to laugh! It was so appropo

      Tis the same with awakening, you might say. ;-))


      Awakening is one of those things that's in between the beginning
      and the end. Once you go through it, the beginning and the end are
      the same thing, but the process is a bugger.


      Yes, it is. At the time there was this immense 'connectedness' with
      everything! Then, a whisper, "Go forth and live!" Yahoo! I mean, Amen.


      I figure if one is rich, and they haven't made the journey, well,
      there are lots of distractions.. the journey isn't even imagined.
      If one has made the journey, being rich (with money) could provide
      adorable challenges, or one could "forget again".

      Just my opinion here, but I feel that the journey isn't complete
      until one makes that journey himself and then learns how to make
      it with others who are not at all like oneself. Nonduality is "all"
      and "nothing". In the extent that you know "all" you know "nothing".

      So money? Once you've started the journey, just another piece. A
      piece with a powerful whisper. But a fantastic challenge.


      Ah, yes. The old mind really tried to kick into high gear!
      Re-side the house - new car - women - vacations - yada yada yada!

      Shush said I - what will be will be. It will all be taken away in a
      heart beat - when the time is right! So, don't worry about it! :-))


      As long as one doesn't forget that we only know the human
      challenges. Imagine, knowing all....



      A primary obstacle is believing that one
      is moving from this state to that state,
      that there is one who moves from this to that.
      Enlightenment won't happen in this lifetime or
      the next or the one after - it includes
      all lifetimes. Awareness of the "inclusive
      fact" is sometimes called "enlightenment" - and
      such terminology may distract from the all-pervading
      truth of Itself, may lead to misinterpretation
      of enlightenment as an event that occurs within
      a being's life - rather than Its reality as the Life
      of this life/all lives. The gateway to Reality is
      Reality itself.

      I am always self-identical.
      All apparent change, seeming differentiation,
      is nothing other than perfect self-identity.
      As it was before beginning and is
      after ending.

      Thinking that there is some enlightenment, bliss
      state, fulfillment
      that one will get to at some point in the future,
      or that one lost in the past -
      one might call this "fragmenting reality"


      Good Lord, man... !

      Uh! I mean... do you really think they are ready for this?

      I mean, ripping the sheets away like this... what will happen to them
      if they see what is really 'going on'?

      On the other hand... if you can say this, it must be the proper... er... thing.

      So... this door of the register is open.


      Hoo boy... are we in for it now!

      Those solar flares... I was hoping they am being an harbinger, ready
      now for ride of mass inversion!

      Just remember, folks... "Nothing really happens". Just keep chanting
      that over and over.


      Yet, would it not be pointless for one to read
      discouragment from reaching for such a realization
      in the above statement? Perhaps, in reaching for
      wholeness, one simply lets go of the fragments.

      Perhaps you too came to that realization at some
      point when the past or future was not part of
      the present?


      Free to be pointless,
      there is nothing for which to reach.
      Neither hopeful nor discouraged,
      releasing is only 'being' itself.

      Fragmenting reality is not possible.
      Only the belief that there can be
      fragmenting appears to be
      perception, but is actually

      When such perception is noticed
      as never having been "there"
      from the very first, fragmentation
      itself dissappears - is seen
      as only original Allness.

      No "I, too" came to anything.
      Only One, which came to Nothing,
      by not arriving.
      It presence is eternal nonpresenting
      of self.

      There are no parts to This,
      thus, no "past" no "future"
      and no "present" that can
      be discussed as such.



      when I heard Marcia say about
      her father just now,

      > I found him. In my heart.

      I realized that said it all.

      Isn't it interesting that both
      Jesus and Osho encouraged us
      to do just that.

      Just as in the story about Osho's
      mother's passing,

      it says one need not wait to be in the
      physical presence of a "great master"

      to be given the opportunity
      to "enter into the kingdom".

      > Yes, Tim, Death is real. Very real.


      It is unreal. Only our perceptions of it give it a seeming reality.
      The fact is that death is really just the end of the integration of a
      body. If there is identification with bodies, death seems real.

      The Bhagavad Gita is a good reference source on "What is Death?" It
      is almost a technical manual on the subject.


      An event at age 7 did set the scene for life. At school, the
      teacher taught us, God was all mercy, but would send thunder
      and lightning when we dared to open our eyes during prayer.
      Combining the two, I considered taking the risk would at least
      prove God's existence. Much to my disappointment, nothing
      happened and what was worse, the teacher was looking around
      also. He punished me. I went home and told the story to my
      father. He ran away as fast as he could, LOL. As a result, I
      became a foremost atheist, "curing" everyone from
      belief, even a vicar, by using logic. Being disappointed in
      what human relations had to offer, I took part in risky
      actions against injustice. When one of those actions failed
      due to an error I made, I reflected on what would be an
      appropriate penalty for fatal failure. Death, of course. I
      swallowed what was needed but was taken out of coma by the
      police. They subjected me to illegal interrogation. My friends
      used this in a petition and the action succeeded after all.
      The coma was more like a NDE. There was supreme peace, not a
      single thought but it was very faint. The aftertaste of it was
      so much stronger than the experience itself, it kept me
      puzzled. As I had taken leave from life for solid reasons, I
      was faced with the situation of how to continue life, as one
      can take leave from life only once. Behavior changed into a
      mere fulfilling of duties, remaining passive always, having
      lost all interest in any participation. There was no mood
      whatsoever; no joy, no sadness, no indifference. This
      situation lasted for about 6 months, then on one day something
      happened that changed life completely. Leaving the post
      office, there was the sudden feeling of having to faint. Going
      down within the compartments of the revolving door, I realized
      there wasn't even embarrassment - obstructing the only
      entrance/exit of the building. Instead of fainting,
      consciousness seemed to expand, body feelings vanished and
      there were no thoughts, no emotions, although volitional
      thinking was possible. It was the supreme peace of the NDE,
      but now it was Real. From then on, I knew what to "do" and
      where "it" would end. What I didn't know was that it
      takes a kind of miracle to function without consciousness of
      sensory feedback. So this part (transformation of body
      consciousness) takes a lot of time...



      Death is continuous. The one who writes these words is dead as soon as they are
      written, every word is the last word. The one who reads them just the same. The same
      for every one always. The present moment is all of life. If you think you will wake up
      tomorrow you are deluded. Already the one who started reading this is nothing but a
      memory. That goes for all material existence. What dies is dying right now, and
      always. What doesn't die can never die.


      ANTHONY offers:

      I am the awareness of being aware that I am universal
      awareness, the first dim, the second brilliant, the
      last a blinding radiance.

      Wei Wu Wei



      ~ Recognizing the transformation
      of fragmented conscious into wholeness
      that has been and continues to go on
      might be called "surrender"


      According to the school of 'instant nirvana' one seemingly is
      catapulted right away into unconditional happiness. No more
      need for pets, spouses, friends, the list is long. No more
      feelings whatsoever as there is only unconditional happiness.
      No meditation, no contemplation, just "see" reality and ready.
      Verification is easy as a tree is recognized by its fruits...

      If reality is not 'unconditional happiness', it isn't worth a
      used piece of toilet paper so why bother :))



      What matters more than the words offered here, regardless

      how wise, how poetic, how clever, is how life is lived

      without them.


      True, Dear Ed, so true.

      There is an old story about a Tibetan monk who, though dearly loved,
      was quite insane. One day he jumped upon a rock and proclaimed, "Dear
      brothers! Do not be like me! I have read all of the books of the
      world, all of the sciences, all of the novels, all of the holy
      scriptures! I have read so much and understood nothing! So, now I am
      completely insane! Dear brothers, do not be like me!"



      Some may find this enjoyable - some not. :-))


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