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Sunday/May 14

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  • umbada@ns.sympatico.ca
    Happy Mother s Day, fellow travelers. May You Walk in Peace May you walk in peace Through storm and fire. You seek me out, Through pain and fear. You ask me
    Message 1 of 1 , May 16, 2000
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      Happy Mother's Day, fellow travelers.

      May You Walk in Peace

      May you walk in peace
      Through storm and fire.

      You seek me out,
      Through pain and fear.
      You ask me why I do these things
      Of horror and despair
      That hides the beauty of your heart
      And makes you cry out in anguish.

      Should I set you down in roses,
      Feeding you of milk and honey
      Would you then seek me out?
      You may think the roses yours,
      That honey and milk flow by your effort,
      Then praise me as mighty.

      Foolish child with willful ways,
      You seek to define me.
      With your hopes and fears
      Your prayers and beliefs,
      Telling all what I am and am not.
      Smug in your crib you know nothing,
      Only I know the truth.

      >From the womb to the grave
      Beyond the grave and back again
      I endlessly grant you life
      I endlessly grant you death
      Beyond death I grant you the greatest wonders
      Then I bring you back again, anew.

      Now open your eyes and see me,
      Through fire and storm.
      Walk in peace for I am You.

      From the Awakening Heart - Mu


      Dear everybody,

      I want to share with you an excerpt from a talk of
      J.Krishnamurti in New York, 1935.

      You know, in India we have certain people called sannyasis,
      who leave the world in search of truth. They have generally
      two loin cloths, the one they put on, and one for the next
      day. A sannyasi in search of truth, sought various
      teachers. In his wanderings he was told that a certain king
      was enlightened, that he was teaching wisdom. So this
      sannyasi went to the king. You can see the contrast between
      the king and the sannyasi: the king who had everything,
      palaces, jewels, courtiers, power; and the sannyasi who had
      only two loin cloths. The king instructed him concerning
      truth. One day, while the king was teaching him, the palace
      caught fire . Serenely the king continued with his
      teaching, while the sannyasi, that holy man, was greatly
      disturbed because his other loin cloth was burning.

      You know, you are all in that position. You may not be
      possessive with regard to clothes, houses, friends, but
      there is some hidden pursuit of gain to which you are
      attached, to which you cling, which is eating your hearts
      and minds away . At long as these unexplored, hidden
      poisons exist, there must be continual conflict, suffering.




      Nisargadatta did describe "The Supreme" as "unbelievably
      hard and solid."

      He also discriminated between the terms "consciousness" and
      "awareness," stating that awareness is primordial and
      present during dreamless sleep (all the states, actually),
      while consciousness is always OF something, and is

      For awhile, I pondered his descriptions.

      Then I realized I could only find out for myself, so I
      dropped the distinctions between consciousness and
      awareness, put the description of Reality being
      "unbelievably hard and solid" out of my mind, and was done
      with Nisargadatta.

      Of what purpose are these distinctions and descriptions?
      Every teacher uses the terms "consciousness" and
      "awareness" differently, every teacher describes
      "Realization" as being or feeling like something different.
      There are some similarities, even more differences.

      Pondering these things only takes one further from
      discovery. It is useless. Experience life second-hand
      through Nisargadatta, or experience it first-hand.

      The real danger is to *expect* the experience of "The
      Supreme" to be "unbelievably hard and solid." Apologies to
      the Gods... Nisargadatta was a fool to voice such

      There are no words used here to describe, only the
      recommendation "find out for yourself, don't preoccupy the
      mind with the thoughts and perceptions of 'others'."

      Reading Nisargadatta's "I Am That" is fine, fantastic --
      good book (seems like every Hindu teacher has written a
      book called "I Am That). Pondering and pondering what the
      "Realized" state might be like is moving further and
      further away.

      *Be* that Reality. Why think about it? Is it not a tactic
      of the ego, so that it may further armor itself?


      will wonders never cease! I actually agree with Tim on
      this. It is truly a great disservice that is done when
      descriptions of how "IT" is are handed out.At one extreme
      Ego will take that information and set up the expectation
      for that particular experience so that we can feel horrible
      because we havent had an experience just like that, or at
      the other end ego will create an experience that fits that
      description, so it can keep on "winning". .Another mistake
      along these lines that is quite often made is when one
      "wakes up"and believes they woke up because of some
      practice or discipline, or just because they did something
      a certain way.Then they begin to teach others this same
      technique or go about detailing the circumstances of their
      awkening so that others can do it the same way.Practice and
      discipline are crucial but Awakening never happens because
      of them.


      People make mistakes, and one of them is
      thinking that since what we are is what cannot be perceived
      or thought it is somehow amorphous, misty, evanescent,
      airy, indefinite. When he says that it is hard and solid,
      he's countering that idea. Saying it is hard and solid
      isn't literally true either of course, because all
      descriptions are false, but thinking of reality as
      indefinite is worse. The statement that it is hard and
      solid stops people from heading in the wrong direction. As
      I read Nisargadatta, he very much chose his words to be
      useful to the particular people he was speaking to at the

      It's tricky you see, you can't counter the feeling that
      reality is vague or indefinite by simply denying it, that
      only makes it seem even more vague, so he counters it by
      pointing out that it's infinitely more solid, harder, than
      the world we see and feel around us, it's absolutely hard
      and solid, while the world around us is only relatively so.


      Yes, Nisargadatta speaks of the hardness, solidity,
      rock-like quality of Reality, Awareness, in sharp contrast
      to the soft, unsteady, dream-like quality of the world.

      Some excerpts (page from I Am That):

      [The supreme state] is what is - the timeless reality,
      unbelievably hard and solid. (36)

      Overlook the movable and you will find yourself to be the
      ever-present, changeless reality, inexpressible, but solid
      like a rock. (162)

      When all distinctions and reactions are no more, what
      remains is reality, simple and solid. (410)

      It is solid, steady, changeless, beginningless and endless,
      ever new, ever fresh. (63)

      This reality is so concrete, so actual, so much more
      tangible than mind and matter, that compared to it even
      diamond is soft like butter. This overwhelming actuality
      makes the world dreamlike, misty, irrelevant. (484)

      There is something changeless, motionless, immovable,
      rock-like, unassailable; a solid mass of pure
      being-consciousness-bliss. I am never our of it. Nothing
      can take me out of it, no torture, no calamity. (191)

      My world is free from opposites, of mutually destructive
      discrepancies; harmony pervades; its peace is rocklike.

      [My condition is] absolutely steady. Whatever I may do, it
      stays like a rock - motionless. (192)


      Ok, everybody, you're all under arrest! :-) Surrender your
      weapons! Your seeking, your ideas, your hope, your misery,
      your so-called love, all of it. Put 'em all up on the
      table. You're going to the gallows where this head of yours
      will be promptly chopped off!

      Judi :-)

      Phew, girl.. hope that's a bottomless table for all this
      crap I have to surrender!

      But.. my 'head'.. oh, no.. my head! Ok.. off to the

      In the most bizarre cycles, I've felt your words like sharp
      knives. I've watched myself think I'm bleeding and then
      laughed at this goofiness. So, here, take my resistance as
      well. Take it all.. it serves me no longer.

      Oh, and to all you deputies out there.. if the phantom head
      reappears.. kindly remind me that it no longer serves.




      Vernon Kitabu Turner has a website;


      I like the Still Waters poem.


      excerpts from interview with Vernon Kitabu Turner:

      When I open my arms for someone, I don't open my arms so
      that they can be grabbed by Kitabu; I open my arms so that
      God can hold them with my body so that they can feel Him,
      not me.

      ````````` You're what the Buddha called "middle ground,"
      precisely that point between earth and heaven where you are
      both and neither. And that's how you can help people: you
      can identify with their pain and suffering because you have
      pain and suffering, and yet . . . you really don't at

      ```````````` We don't really know the true state of our
      being because we've been reflecting upon reflections that
      are reflections of other reflections. When we can remove
      all those, there'll be nothing but what is real.



      I was listening to an interview done with Kitty Carlyle
      this morning, along with some family members.

      Kitty was saying that she was 90 years old, still does
      morning exercises that a woman half her age would find
      difficult to do, does her hair and makeup first thing every
      morning, goes out to lunch... and again out in the evening
      to some function... every night of the week. She really did
      look 20 years younger.

      The comments in the room were "what a remarkable woman she
      is". She was referred to as a "great dame" and was said to
      have lived a very successful life.

      I enjoyed listening to her, and very much had the sense as
      I was listening that her life is/has been very much in
      keeping with Its design.

      I couldn't help but smile with a very sweet sense of
      gladness that indeed All is well....All is as it should be,
      in the landscapes of our lives.

      Perfect lives.....hers, mine, yours.

      But for a moment I almost missed it...almost missed seeing
      the perfection.

      For a moment I began to compare her life's unfolding to my
      life's design.....and for that moment, her life looked
      stupid, wasted, wrong headed.

      And the very moment I got myself out of the way.....the
      moment I lifted *my* blueprints up off of *her* landscape,
      the 'beauty' which is her life, became apparent once again.


      I thought this was very good from another list even without
      the statement this person was replying to...

      You still are unable to grasp that the "mind" (head- brain)
      is the weakest/slowest of the centers - "stilling" -
      "controlling" the "mind" is a fool's errand. You could have
      the "stillest" most "controlled" "mind" in the universe and
      be at the mercy of you body and emotions.

      The Fourth Way is not about "stilling" anything, it's about
      developing ATTENTION:

      "'You have too much mind on it -- >must< have attention<.
      Attention is the working together of the association of
      thought with association of feeling. Memory working
      together with sense makes attention.'" Pg. 90 - Ladies of
      the Rope - Patterson



      Hi Tim - I guess I could say I was once a "Fourth Way"
      person. Before my early encounters with Advaita, I put
      heart and soul into it for roughly six years... While I can
      understand your confusion about, and "condemnation" of G. -
      surely you're a bit premature with your critique, given you
      admit you actually know very little about him. My favorite
      introduction to his thinking is in a book by P.D.
      Ouspensky: In Search of the Miraculous. Other old friends
      of mine prefer Ouspensky's The Fourth Way. Both are well
      written, thoroughly thought out, and quite intellectually
      challenging. My opion is that Ouspensky was awake, and that
      he wrote from that perspective. Though, of course, who
      knows? Two other books, besides G.'s Beelzebub's Tales to
      His Grandson (which is about as transparent as, say,
      Joyce's Ulysses - though certainly more rewarding), which
      very much impressed me, are Rodney Collin's Theory of
      Eternal Life, and Theory of Conscious Harmony. You might
      wish to peruse one or more of these books prior to further
      critiques. They are all very, very interesting, and useful
      even for the most ardent Advaitan. Gurdjieff was no one to
      take lightly - from any perspective at all.

      About Ken Wilbur: I concur with some of the previous
      remarks about your post. Mr. Wilbur is incredibly bright
      and articulate, and his books are often a good read. Also,
      almost without question, he is an intellectual writing
      about a subject which is generally opaque to reason alone.

      Please take care, Sir. I enjoy your posts and the work
      you've done on your web site. -j.

      master baiter wrote:

      Judi decides to try horseback riding,
      even though she has had
      no lessons
      or prior experience. She mounts the
      horse, unassisted, and the
      horse immediately springs into motion. It
      gallops along at a steady and
      rhythmic pace, but Judi begins to
      slip from the saddle. In
      terror, she grabs
      for the horse's mane, but cannot seem to
      get a firm grip.
      She tries to throw her arms around the
      horse's neck, but she
      slides down the side of the
      horse anyway.
      The horse gallops along, seemingly
      impervious to its slipping
      rider. Finally, giving up her frail grip, Judi attempts to
      away from
      the horse and throw herself to safety.
      Unfortunately, her foot has become
      entangled in the stirrup, she
      is now at
      the mercy of
      the horse's pounding hooves as her head
      is struck against the
      ground over
      and over.
      As her head is battered against the
      ground, she is mere moments
      away from
      unconsciousness when to her great
      Bill, the WalMart greeter, sees her and
      unplugs the horse.
      We are the Nonduality Generation.
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