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Highlights for Thursday May 11th

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  • andrew macnab
    TIM GERSCHMEZ and responses List, Last night on inquiring into the nature of thought, I realized that thought is *empty*. This is difficult to explain in
    Message 1 of 1 , May 12, 2000
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      TIM GERSCHMEZ and responses

      List,

      Last night on inquiring into the nature of thought, I realized that thought
      is *empty*. This is difficult to explain in words, I think it has to be
      experienced, but here is an attempt.

      Thought normally is recognized as something that has *meaning* (in the
      context of either making sense or not making sense). Without some sort of
      recognizable meaning, there is nothing that can be called thought. Yet the
      meaning ascribed to thought is itself a thought... or a collection of
      thoughts.

      We recognize a thought by its meaning or context. But upon clearer
      examination, thoughts can be seen to be *empty* - because the thought
      depends on meaning to exist, and meaning depends on thought to exist. It's
      a kind of circular little system that as Dan-ji once said, has no ground.
      Look closely, and the whole non-system spins away into emptiness.

      So, to look at (witness) thought without using thought, it can be seen that
      thought is like clear glass. It can be said that it does not even happen -
      that there is no such thing. Looking more deeply at the clear glass, there
      is no glass there - like a sliding glass door so clean someone runs into
      it, but in reverse. The glass is assumed to be there, but "reach out" and
      there is empty space.

      The conclusion is that where thought was assumed to be, there is only void,
      full of Itself. Just look closely, and you will see that thought is
      something imagined or projected out of nothing.

      Probably none of this made sense. Oh well.

      Love,

      Tim
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      ~ Makes perfect sense in the context of my
      this morning flash.
      I saw that thought is actually impossible,
      being made of nothing and no one doing it.
      Ha ha ha , tee hee hee

      love
      xan

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      Dear List,

      If there were ONE THING you would like to get across to everyone on the NDS
      mailing list (something everyone would always remember), what would it be?


      I'll start.

      If it were possible, I would like to get across that there are no "persons"
      here, only brief, flickering entities playing fictitious roles in a short
      film. The problem of "personal attacks" exists only because there are
      entities here believing themselves to be "persons." A so-called attack is
      put forth with great emotional emphasis by one "person" (in an attempt to
      bolster the "ego" of said "person") and is perceived as an attack by
      another "person" (in an attempt to defend the ego of that "person").

      The whole thing is absolutely ridiculous on a mailing list supposedly
      related (even distantly!) to 'nonduality'. If every entity here realized
      they are not persons, there would be nobody to do any "attacking", and
      nobody to "attack."

      The entire "problem" is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of what we
      are. A little inquiry would likely solve it in a flash, but it is obvious
      that not everyone engages in such inquiry. If it were simply seen that
      emotional reactions are due to the need to defend something that does not
      exist at all, the "problem" as commonly seen would vaporize.

      Of course, this is a pipe-dream. Ignorance continues, endlessly.

      Anyone else? If you could really get across one major point to everyone on
      the list, what would it be?

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


      My question to you is why do you perceive that we don't already
      know all this? I don't believe for one minute that the things I write
      are any more than a momentary integration or as you say a "fictitious
      role." And why do you perceive this as a problem?

      Marcia

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


      Compassion.

      andrew

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


      "You are love, itself and nothing else. no need for anything else. just
      shine..."

      LOVe, MArk'
      see ya!

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      ~ Your Silent Heart.

      xan
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


      That we are all unique, and any attempt to fit people into "universal
      truths" expressible in words is bound to be a disservice.

      Love, Sarlo

      _____________________________________________________________________________________

      GENE POOLE

      <snip>
      Gene: I thank you, Melody, for exposing and sharing the growth you
      have experienced. Being able to say it, being able to share it...
      this shows, that what has gone before, has been assimilated.
      Sometimes, food is a bit hard to chew, and a bit of a challenge to
      assimilate. Once had, however, this meal supplies permanent benefits.

      I find no shame in laying bare my self; there is something in this,
      which makes the baring a truly grand event, no matter that it may
      pass without the notice of others. The swelling of the heart is a
      true event, even as the pain of expansion may bring tears.

      That others may not understand, be perplexed as they may, is even
      more reward; passing beyond former boundaries, we breath new and
      fresh air.

      No shame, no blame...grist for the mill...

      ==Gene Poole==

      _____________________________________________________________________________________

      JERRY KATZ


      Gene's posts are sometimes like tidal waves. I learned a
      long, long time ago, before he and I were on any list (we
      were free range nondualists), to let that wave take me
      without resistance on my part. I may or may not eat the fish
      in that wave; I may or may not stay where that wave sets me
      down; but I'm there for the ride, open to the experience,
      and gaining education on different levels.

      Jerry

      _____________________________________________________________________________________


      MATTHEW FILES

      > What makes a guru?
      -------------------------------
      A radiant smile, deep pools of nothingness for eyes,thick luxoriuos
      hair( or totally bald will do), a keen wit,and wry sense of
      humor,some amount of eccentricity, though not too extreme if one
      wants mass acceptance, a cool air of detachment,alternating with a
      passionately gentle warmth and an unbelievable depth of understanding
      and languaging of the dharma.
      The list of qualities (practice that melting love/bliss gaze every
      day!)could go on and on but bottom line it comes down to great P.R.
      Without a good Rep the aspiring guru is really not going to make it
      in todays highly competitive guru market. Dress sharp, talk smart and
      above all get a web site. Image is everything. Once you have
      determined what market you are shooting for all the pieces just fall
      in place.Oh and lets not forget a hot name. Something eastern
      sounding, either tibetan or hindu is working well with the public
      these days.Though "Swami A.C.D.C.Somelongdong" is probably a bit
      cumbersome.
      Thats enough for now. In future posts i will be covering subjects
      like,"Developing a Following","Starting an Ashram","Giving out
      Spiritual Names", "Creating an Inner Circle","Leveraging Your
      Satsangs","The Myth of Digital Darshans","Guru Getaway Vacations"
      (for times when those devotees get to be just too much),"Death as a
      Career Move","Titleing Your Workshops",(like, How I Raised Myself
      >From The Dead In 49 Days Or Less And You Can Too). .........

      ..........Visualize Whirrled Peas
      ..........matthew
      ............matthew

      _____________________________________________________________________________________

      HANS DEUNOUWER

      <snip>
      I have been trying to relax my body for a very very long time until i became
      aware that this does not work for me. It literaly made me ill and i winded
      up in the hospital. Too much focus on the body. It only works for me when i
      let go off the mind. Somehow it's easier for me to relax the mind than to
      relax the body. If it works for you the other way around, that's perfectly
      fine with me.

      I am not interested at all anymore in the functions of the mind or specific
      thoughts, feelings, emotions,attitutes,teachings, systems, presumptions and
      thelike , because i became aware of the fact that, to me, it feels like a
      dog chasing it's own tail, and it has lost all meaning for me. I am trying
      to get an *overall feeling* of what it's all about or not about and that's
      what i am in for the time being. However, i am beginning to become aware
      that i might be exchanging one story for another story, but that's another
      story :) W'll see.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      Ladies, may i say something , please ? Thank you.
      Yep, i thought many, many times, what the hell am i doing here. Things got
      worse and not better. Glad i stayed. What does it do to me ? It makes it
      very clear that we are all a bunch of dummies. If ever there was a place
      that showed me that i am chasing my own tale, this was the place. It's quite
      amazing to discover that you are chasing yourself, although we are very
      smart at disguises. The *other* is becoming the *me*. Makes everything much
      easier. I do not have to waste energy anymore in putting the blame on
      others. And most important of all, i keep having this sense of *beautiful
      things ahead*. It opens me up in a way i could never have believed before.
      Never been more *fluid* in my life. So, Guys and Gals, don't you dare
      leaving this place.

      Love to all,
      Hans

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


      How difficult to see it's all *me*. To see the thinker and the thought are
      one and the same thing. This sense of *me* as a separate entity is just
      sooooooooooo strong. As I see it, a lot if not all problems arise out of
      that division that keeps itself in tact all the time, making us believe that
      we can somehow make things go the way we want. This mechanism is our only
      defense ! Once the division is broken up or seen as unreal, what happens ?
      W'll see.

      Love,
      Hans

      _____________________________________________________________________________________

      HARSHA

      ...I am reminded of a beautiful truth or insight
      often indicated metaphorically. The top of the mountain, the highest height,
      symbolically can refer to the spiritual/psychic height of Sahasarara Chakra.
      When Kundalini Shakti moves up, its last resting place is the "top of the
      mountain." From there, if one is totally and utterly indifferent to the
      highest height, there can be a "jump of the cliff" so to speak. Grace allows
      for this jump into the arms of Divine Beloved. It requires total faith and
      trust in the Guru/God/Self/Heart/ or call it what you will for the ultimate
      surrender of the mind itself. It is with that "fall" in to the deepest abyss
      of emptiness that One Knows the Highest Height and the Deepest Depth are not
      different. The Fullest Fullness and the Emptiest Emptiness are Totally
      Identical. It is easy to see why mystics become mad, break with traditions,
      and are willing to sing their songs even when they are despised. With the
      cup always to the lips brimming with divine intoxication, it is easy to see
      why mystics become poets. The Same Sameness Everywhere.

      Love
      Harsha

      _____________________________________________________________________________________

      DAN BERKOW

      <snip>

      Words are like fruit-flies. They congregate around
      an apparently meaningful topic, then leave
      to find something tasty elsewhere. When the words
      fly apart, and the associated meaning is gone, what
      is the "outlook" that remains?
      Being seems to cohere around an existence.
      When the consitution of the existence falls apart, what
      is It that remains? Only That which never came
      into being with the apparent existence.
      _____________________________________________________________________________________

      DAVE PAWLAK (manchine)


      This list, like everything else, has a purpose.... even if it
      is just part of a short dream. It is lucid, you touch it and it
      resonates, it responds as raw truth. Getting to know it
      is its will. Serving its will is its gift.

      Sweet dreams
      Dave
      _____________________________________________________________________________________

      XAN


      ~ Guru and mother are forms, which we make.
      God is formless, unmade.

      xan
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