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Wed./May 10

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  • umbada@ns.sympatico.ca
    SOMETHING DIFFERENT, BY MANCHINE I listen to what I choose I see it my way You can tell me what you will My world is what it is As is yours I speak to me too
    Message 1 of 1 , May 11, 2000
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      SOMETHING DIFFERENT, BY MANCHINE

      I listen to what I choose
      I see it my way
      You can tell me what you will
      My world is what it is
      As is yours

      I speak to me too
      Recording, making clear the blur
      of focus, organizing it

      What does it achieve
      All this conversation,
      an ordering of the Universe
      into something different
      than it is
      into something different
      that suits me

      I understand what you say
      once I've sat upon the words
      compressing them
      into something different
      than they are
      into something different
      that suits me

      Your words have changed me
      don't you see
      into something different
      than I am
      into something different
      that suits me

      __________________________________________________________

      MARK OTTER

      Hi All,

      Basho says:

      The temple bell stops.
      But the sound keeps coming
      out of the flowers.

      Love,Mark

      ____________________________________________________________

      Only an image in the eye of an image.
      I can believe myself to be this too.
      I can believe this of the whole world.
      Of God, of everything.
      An image that sees itself.
      Why not?
      It is an understanding,
      an agreement, a binding contract.
      The formless bound in form.
      Informed... enformed.
      Heaven and earth kneaded together like dough.

      --Andrew Macnab

      _____________________________________________________________

      GENE POOLE: Personally, I have no use for the forced
      imbalance of the 'status-quo'. This list is a special
      place, like a confessional. Just as we each have within us
      a rigid 2-yr old tyrant who wants to rule all space, so
      also we each have a 'priest-confesssor', who lives for
      moments of truth and contrition. By coming clean here, I
      learn that it is safe to drop my painfully acquired and
      maintained identity.

      Nothing bad will happen.

      I wish for each, to be able to drop the internal partitions
      which somehow keep these facets of self, hidden from
      conscious awareness. It is no secret that here, on this
      list, those partitions are stressed to and past the
      breaking-point. The trick is to participate in such a way
      as to not only personally benefit, but to lend this to
      others, also.

      MELODY ANDERSON: Yes. Internal partitions. That's a very
      apt naming of what is at play.

      What I was noticing yesterday was that not only do each of
      these facets of self lie within, they reside in our
      communities, our families, even this mailing list. And that
      how fluid (or rigid) these partitions exist *externally*
      has a significant impact (if not a mirrored impact) on the
      fluidity/rigidity of the *internal* partitions.

      How much easier it is to drop the partitions internally,
      when one communes with others who are 'fluid' themselves.

      We have spoken often here on this list about the impact of
      those who abide in a nondual perspective (who are free from
      identification or attachment) may have on the greater
      community. It has been asked, "What is it we can take from
      our gathering here, on this list, and offer out into our
      other communities and families?

      For me, it is making conscious all the hidden selves, with
      their hidden agendas....dropping the partitions as you
      say.....which in turn no longer *demands* that those I meet
      maintain the image I have assigned them.

      As long as the partitions are in place *within*, we will
      continue to demand a solid partitioning ....a sharp
      defining...of individuals in our lives,

      and we may be loathe to open to see them in a different
      light.

      And so despite any 'realizations' we may have had, we may
      continue to erect walls around those we know....continue
      labeling others...

      and still be unwilling to hear others' expressions outside
      the label (and agenda) we have assigned to them.

      Thank you, Gene, for expanding this discussion.

      GENE POOLE: Gene: I thank you, Melody, for exposing and
      sharing the growth you have experienced. Being able to say
      it, being able to share it... this shows, that what has
      gone before, has been assimilated. Sometimes, food is a bit
      hard to chew, and a bit of a challenge to assimilate. Once
      had, however, this meal supplies permanent benefits.

      I find no shame in laying bare my self; there is something
      in this, which makes the baring a truly grand event, no
      matter that it may pass without the notice of others. The
      swelling of the heart is a true event, even as the pain of
      expansion may bring tears.

      That others may not understand, be perplexed as they may,
      is even more reward; passing beyond former boundaries, we
      breath new and fresh air.

      No shame, no blame...grist for the mill...

      _________________________________________________________

      JUDI RHODES CONTRIBUTES TIMOTHY SCHOOREL

      How we feel emotionally depends on how successful we are in
      life. But we put too much weight and importance on
      feelings. Peace is not a feeling, it is not found in
      feelings, it is found in freedom. Without freedom, how can
      you be happy? How can you be joyous? Feelings and emotions
      are not as deep as we usually think they are. Compared to
      authentic peace they are not all that deep. In freedom
      there is natural peace. There's a deep synchronicity and
      understanding with life:somehow you are humming the same
      song.

      Without freedom we cannot be natural. We are restless,
      living as if there is always something urgent to attend to.
      We always have some excuse to keep ourselves occupied.
      Without freedom we are basically unable to relax in life.
      Without freedom there is simply no peace.

      What do you think enlightenment actually is? You are still
      a fragile human being. Spirituality is not escapism.
      Enlightenment is not separate from ordinary, mundane life.
      You are just natural, even ordinary. An ordinary human
      being who has realized his absolute nature. You may have
      realized the Absolute, but you still need to make a living,
      you still love you friends, you still like music, you still
      pay the rent.

      Being enlightened does not mean that you cannot be hurt or
      disappointed, or that all problems have magicaly
      disappeared from life. Life always has its own problems,
      even if you know that all is well. However, enlightenment
      does mean that your heart is free of conflict. The question
      is not how to be without problems, or how to never be hurt.
      The question that matters, is whether your heart is free!

      ***** Timothy Schoorel http://www.7Freedom.com

      __________________________________________________________

      GENE POOLE: I wish for each, to be able to drop the
      internal partitions which somehow keep these facets of
      self, hidden from conscious awareness. It is no secret that
      here, on this list, those partitions are stressed to and
      past the breaking-point. The trick is to participate in
      such a way as to not only personally benefit, but to lend
      this to others, also.

      ED ARRONS: Yes...we each become a spokes-person for
      unconditional love and enter into a collective resonance-
      whence the tyrant tot and the high priest are demised in
      the light of purification. We all become children of Mother
      Grace.

      Perhaps there is yet a resistance to the "ensuing
      emptiness" or, in other words, a fear of losing
      individuality.

      ______________________________________________________

      GREG GOODE

      To say that anything really has a function means it's
      something more than an image. Functions and
      function-creators are themselves only images. Images are
      only images. How can an image function, actually do
      something? Any doing is just another image. Images rise and
      fall. How can an image make an image?

      It sounds like you might be looking for a first cause, an
      answer to why there are images in the first place, why is
      there something rather than nothing. Any answer "X" that
      gets pointed to as a first cause, such as "the brain did
      it," will embroil the seeker in endless, useless mind-stuff
      -- lots of dead ends, incoherences, endless regresses, or
      dogmatic views, etc. This is not fruitful. The true answer
      to this question is the non-arising of the question.

      _______________________________________________________

      MARCIA PAUL

      No matter what they are (even these) words are lies even as
      they are being spoken. That is because they represent the
      moment that just went before and that moment is gone.

      Consciousness is divided. There is a conscious level and a
      subconscious level. Please suspend judgment for the moment
      to catch the drift of what I am trying to express. The
      subconscious level is where the motivating factors reside.
      I reside most of the time in the conscious level. I feel
      numb. I know not what motivates me. I am at the mercy of
      feelings which I am unaware of. I am mechanically driven by
      life both internal and external. Reactivity rules.

      Waking up is a three-fold process. If I can somehow (this
      is where the sly man comes in) fall back (behind or
      internal to) the reactivity, I can spring (reflexive
      movement) to that psychic place we all share and empathy
      (the third or reconciling or healing) flows. Somehow I have
      to trick (be a sly man to myself) myself in order to access
      that subconscious level.

      The subconscious level is imbedded in my body. The cells of
      my body have memory. They carry the *story*. My conscious
      mind is quick with lies also known as rationalizations and
      justifications and excuses.

      Example. I am sitting meditating as I direct my father
      through his shower routine. As I sit aware of the coming a
      going of my breath, I become very aware of a feeling of
      instinctive disgust. This person is useless, can't do
      anything, old, doesn't smell good, I shouldn't have to do
      this and so forth. Because I am in my body, memory is
      evoked. I experience this disgust as a memory coming from
      my mother. My mother, bless her heart, was not a body
      person. Body function disgusted her. Suddenly the feeling
      of innocence and helplessness being viewed as disgusting
      i.e. the experience of being felt as disgusting made me
      feel sad for myself and simultaneously I was flooded with
      feelings of compassion and sympathy for this helpless old
      man. I fell back into the subconscious which reflexed me to
      inside my father and I was flooded with empathy
      (reconciling force).

      First I have to have reactivity. Life has to impinge itself
      upon me. Reactive tension is my springboard, my fuel if you
      will. All those "me's", little Marcia's, each separate
      moment in time are my life. Each is a little tyrant
      reigning supreme for one brief moment in time. My
      opportunity, my challenge, my gift of life.

      _________________________________________________________

      TIM GERCHMEZ

      Last night on inquiring into the nature of thought, I
      realized that thought is *empty*. This is difficult to
      explain in words, I think it has to be experienced, but
      here is an attempt.

      Thought normally is recognized as something that has
      *meaning* (in the context of either making sense or not
      making sense). Without some sort of recognizable meaning,
      there is nothing that can be called thought. Yet the
      meaning ascribed to thought is itself a thought... or a
      collection of thoughts.

      We recognize a thought by its meaning or context. But upon
      clearer examination, thoughts can be seen to be *empty* -
      because the thought depends on meaning to exist, and
      meaning depends on thought to exist. It's a kind of
      circular little system that as Dan-ji once said, has no
      ground. Look closely, and the whole non-system spins away
      into emptiness.

      So, to look at (witness) thought without using thought, it
      can be seen that thought is like clear glass. It can be
      said that it does not even happen - that there is no such
      thing. Looking more deeply at the clear glass, there is no
      glass there - like a sliding glass door so clean someone
      runs into it, but in reverse. The glass is assumed to be
      there, but "reach out" and there is empty space.

      The conclusion is that where thought was assumed to be,
      there is only void, full of Itself. Just look closely, and
      you will see that thought is something imagined or
      projected out of nothing.

      _________________________________________________________

      THE LITTLE PEBBLE, by Miguel-Angel Carrasco

      In a river high up in the mountains there was a little
      pebble, one of those one finds making up the bed of shallow
      fast-moving torrents. The pebble, placed near the
      riverbank, was all covered up in greenish moss. It felt
      miserable, because it had heard other, bigger pebbles speak
      of the possibility of becoming stone, which was supposed to
      mean the goal of all pebbles, the happy fulfillment of
      their destiny. But much as it tried, our pebble couldn't
      come to realize this dream. It felt itself made up of moss.
      So it spoke to the rock beneath it and said: -Dear rock,
      please, tell me how to become stone. -Stone? What do you
      think you are? -I'm a piece of moss. -How do you know?
      -That's what I see when I look at myself. Moss, all over.
      -You fool, that's only a mask! Look deep within yourself
      and you will see that you are not that. Moss is only your
      dress. If this river were to dry up, the moss would die,
      but you would continue to be what you are. -And what am I?
      -You're not even a pebble. You are just stone. Immutable,
      immortal. -Then what shall I do to reach stonehood? The
      other pebbles speak of various techniques, and I've tried
      them all, but l still can't stop feeling I am a piece of
      moss. -Forget about techniques. All techniques deal only
      with the makeup of the moss. Leave the moss alone. What is
      it to you? Look at the river around you. The moss you are
      wearing adds to its beauty. Where's the need of taking off
      your pretty dress? It will eventually die by itself. Just
      be happy knowing that your are only stone.

      Our little pebble was very happy on hearing the rock say
      this; so happy that it began to sing and dance in the
      water. This made it forget all about moss. And the more it
      sang and danced, the more moss it inadvertently shook off.
      When finally all the moss had been shed, it became so light
      and smooth that it started to float and shine in the river.

      ____________________________________________________

      SHANKAR (CONTRIBUTED BY GLORIA LEE)

      The non-sensual and 'self-shining', vast and complete,
      'non-moving' inner experience of 'I-I', is Self-Knowledge:

      As 'completeness', as the 'thing' that is the 'I', as that
      which shines by Itself, without 'rising' by
      sense-perception, That 'Inner (Being)' alone, which is the
      (very) 'Nature' of 'all' (everyone), and which is the 'vast
      non-moving experience', is the 'Self'; (and) 'this' is
      'knowledge'.

      Translation of verse 224 from 'Essence of Sadhana' by Sri
      Sadhu Om Swamigal

      JODY

      Great passage Gloria, which pretty much describes the
      experience of knowing the Self, at least as I know it.

      Having the Self as an 'object' ("as the 'thing' that is the
      'I'") makes meditation almost effortless. It is as if the
      mind has found a homebase, but it must take its clothes off
      to enter.

      I just got a Palm Pilot at work. Going back to the Self in
      meditation is sort of like plugging in my Palm Pilot to the
      HotSync cradle. While there is no transfer going on, the
      mind comes to rest in the Self. When it comes time to
      navigate the world, the Palm Pilot comes out of the cradle,
      ready to do its thing.

      _________________________________________________________

      HANS: Here's another assumption of mine : if there is a
      path, there is a goal, something to achieve. When there's
      something to achieve, there's a *me* with all it's
      assumptions. This looks like a circle to me. The *me*
      creating the goal and the goal recreating and reconfirming
      the *me*.

      ROGER: Can we distinguish when achievement/path/goal/effort
      are useful and when effort is counter productive?

      I'll use the body as an example cause it's more obvious.
      Say your body is tense. This has direct implications for
      the spiritual quest because tension in the body can be
      related to tension in the mind. Spontaneous samadhi,
      according to various authors and from my own experience, is
      more likely when the body is totally relaxed. See recent
      posts about the "death pose" being advantagous!

      Hypothesis: samadhi is more likely when the body is
      relaxed. Observation: the tension in my body keeps the mind
      engaged, how to relax? Plan of action: this could include
      yoga postures, exercise, diet etc... But lets just say the
      plan of action is "if my shoulders are tense and raised,
      then let them drop".

      Now, this is very simple and useful to me. If it sounds too
      simplistic, then consider that relaxation of the body can
      be an initial step or trigger, perhaps the only step
      required, towards becoming aware of kundalini at anytime or
      stilling the mind suddenly & completely.

      "If my shoulders are tense and raised, then let them drop".
      Now Hans, are you going to avoid this or similar procedures
      because of some imagined danger that the process may become
      obsessive or circular? Or are you not capable of using the
      mind to identify distractions, plan a course of action,
      implement that action, and assess the results?

      If you say that "not this - not this" doesn't work for you,
      and something else works better, then that would seem like
      a reasonable assessment.

      There's a philosophy held by some that sincere evaluation
      of the state of mind & body is not required for
      Realization. Some suggest that such effort might actually
      block realization. Ha!

      HANS: So we strip false assumptions away (which in itself
      is nothing but another assumption), but what about the *me*
      that is doing the stripping ? The *me* being the ultimate
      assumption.

      ROGER: What is there after stripping away? Stillness or
      alertness or increased focus? How is stillness presumptive?

      I'd prefer that you make a distinction here, Hans. If you
      say that "stripping away" doesn't work for you, that's
      fine. However, if your conclusion is that "not this - not
      this" doesn't work for me, then I'll resist you.

      __________________________________________________________

      THE TRUTH ABOUT THE BRAIN/MIND CONNECTION BY MICHAEL READ

      Once there was a monk who was an expert on the Diamond
      Sutra, and as books were very valuable in his day, he
      carried the only copy in his part of the world on his back.
      He was widely sought after for his readings and insight
      into the Diamond Sutra, and very successful at propounding
      its profundities to not only monks and masters but to the
      lay people as well.

      Thus the people of that region came to know of the Diamond
      Sutra, and as the monk was traveling on a mountain road, he
      came upon an old woman selling tea and cakes. The hungry
      monk would have loved to refresh himself, but alas, he had
      no money. He told the old woman, "I have upon my back a
      treasure beyond knowing -- the Diamond Sutra. If you will
      give me some tea and cakes, I will tell you of this great
      treasure of knowledge."

      The old woman knew something of the Diamond Sutra herself,
      and proposed her own bargain. She said, "Oh learned monk,
      if you will answer a simple question, I will give you tea
      and cakes." To this the monk readily agreed. The woman then
      said, "When you eat these cakes, are you eating with the
      mind of the past, the mind of the present or the mind of
      the future?"

      No answer occurred to the monk, so he took the pack from
      his back and got out the text of the Diamond Sutra, hoping
      he could find the answer. As he studied and pondered, the
      day grew late and the old woman packed up her things to go
      home for the day.

      "You are a foolish monk indeed," said the old woman as she
      left the hungry monk in his quandary. "You eat the tea and
      cakes with your mouth."

      HAHAHAH and HOHOHO!

      Peace - - Michael

      _______________________________________________________

      THE QUESTION WAS POSED:

      What makes a guru? -------------------------------

      MATTHEW FILES: A radiant smile, deep pools of nothingness
      for eyes,thick luxoriuos hair( or totally bald will do), a
      keen wit,and wry sense of humor,some amount of
      eccentricity, though not too extreme if one wants mass
      acceptance, a cool air of detachment,alternating with a
      passionately gentle warmth and an unbelievable depth of
      understanding and languaging of the dharma. The list of
      qualities (practice that melting love/bliss gaze every
      day!)could go on and on but bottom line it comes down to
      great P.R. Without a good Rep the aspiring guru is really
      not going to make it in todays highly competitive guru
      market. Dress sharp, talk smart and above all get a web
      site. Image is everything. Once you have determined what
      market you are shooting for all the pieces just fall in
      place.Oh and lets not forget a hot name. Something eastern
      sounding, either tibetan or hindu is working well with the
      public these days.Though "Swami A.C.D.C.Somelongdong" is
      probably a bit cumbersome. Thats enough for now. In future
      posts i will be covering subjects like,"Developing a
      Following","Starting an Ashram","Giving out Spiritual
      Names", "Creating an Inner Circle","Leveraging Your
      Satsangs","The Myth of Digital Darshans","Guru Getaway
      Vacations" (for times when those devotees get to be just
      too much),"Death as a Career Move","Titleing Your
      Workshops",(like, How I Raised Myself From The Dead In 49
      Days Or Less And You Can Too). .........

      ..........Visualize Whirrled Peas ..........matthew
      ............matthew
      --
      We are the Nonduality Generation.
      http://www.nonduality.com
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