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Tuesday/May 9

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  • umbada@ns.sympatico.ca
    the idea of core is a brilliant tickle the experience of core is bright and empty the name of core has always been myself the boundary of core is imagination
    Message 1 of 1 , May 10 6:27 PM
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      the idea of core
      is a brilliant tickle

      the experience of core
      is bright and empty

      the name of core
      has always been myself

      the boundary of core
      is imagination

      the quality of core
      is nonexistence

      even love
      is too much
      between the one of us,



      Jerry.. Tim wrote the paragraph you attributed to me by
      mistake here:

      My life is devoted to 'nondual discovery.' This isn't a
      sunday afternoon church thing to me. Sometimes (often?) I
      get too serious, because... well, I can't put it into
      words. Dan-Ji used a term I forgot, maybe it was "urgency."
      These matters are of utmost urgency here. There is a lot of
      choicelessness involved. The motive is love, the obstacle
      is thought.

      Nisargadatta: "The mind creates the bridge, the heart
      crosses it."

      I love you too,



      Those who stand on the shoulders of others are liable to
      fall and break their necks. It is only useful until the
      "inner Guru" (Grace, Satguru, the Self) is discovered.
      After that, there is only standing alone. You do yourself a
      great disservice by clinging to the belief that others are
      necessarily on a spiritual "quest." ... All thought is
      derivative, but "Being-knowing" (see Jean Klein) is not
      derivative. If you do not believe in the presence of an
      "inner Guru," it is because you have not discovered It yet
      within yourself. It *is* yourSelf.



      GLO: "...................... Isn't it something how your
      teenagers don't want to hear your "wisdom" just because
      it's coming from MOM..oh, horrors! Then they they think
      it's the greatest thing in the world if they hear the same
      damn thing from someone else.

      HANS: That's something i am experiencing too. My daughter
      is now taking Yoga lessons and she tells me the things that
      the Yoga teacher is telling her and then i say, but isn't
      that something we have been talking about lately and you
      didn't want to talk about it ? "No,No, that's not the same
      thing" :))))


      JERRY: I have to challenge myself for having an image of
      you. What's contracting in me that bends the lens of the
      pure eye and creates an image? Because I DO have images of
      everyone. I couldn't advise you to correct the bend in your
      lens until I correct the bend in mine. I could only say to
      see it for what it is. That's a challenge right there which
      calls for a person to be vigilant at all times.

      MATTHEW: Yes, see it for what it is. It is only the mind
      doing what it does so well.What i mean is that having
      images, ideas, opinions,conclusions is no big deal. The
      mind just does that. Trying to correct that is a total
      waste of time. But what we can do is self-observe. Watch
      the the mind, and emotions and try not to be at the effect
      of them.Act differently than the behaviour they usually
      dictate. The mind draws conclusions about everything,
      endlessly but we dont have to believe or act on those


      GLORIA LEE: You ever listen to Car Talk on the NPR? They
      always end the show saying, "Well, you've squandered
      another perfectly good hour listening to Car Talk." I think
      all time is wasted, in the sense that there is absolutely
      nothing to gain anyway, so I like to waste mine
      tastefully..you know have a bit of class while you're at
      it. I'm leaving here with exactly what I came in
      with..nothing. Actually I treasure and savor every second
      of my dwindling time left on this gorgeous planet and I am
      very very fortunate these days to have the leisure to do
      so, so it matters very much to me how I "waste" my time.
      INHO, time spent unhappily is wasted, if you know what I
      mean. If you gotta argue and be upset, better find a way to
      enjoy doing that.


      I've noticed that the mind has quite a tendency to
      prematurely conclude "knowing" almost as if it cannot stand
      not knowing. And I do love this curious inquiring mind we
      are blessed with, always wanting to fugure out what is
      going on here. It seems only the heart may become content
      with trusting this "unknowingness" ..the ongoing mystery of



      "In the 'Second Descent, the story of engulfed Atlantis may
      be compared with the Objective Conscience, buried deeply
      within us, swallowed up by personality. Objective
      Conscience is the function of a normal being; it is the
      representative of God in the essence. What is John the
      Baptist? It is objective conscience crying in the
      wilderness of the body; beheaded by external life."

      - From Orage's Commentary on Beelzebub

      Gurdjieff's magnum opus Beelzebub's Tales to His Grandson
      is supposedly a work of objective art. On one level it is
      the story of what happens to us. Something breaks off and
      gets buried deep within us and is swallowed up by
      personality. John the Baptist was beheaded. If that
      something gets buried in our essence and is the
      representative of God in our essence then John the Baptist
      is crying in the wilderness and is beheaded by external
      life or the personality.

      If anything I think it would be the opposite of karma. It
      would seem to talk about that which is not karma. What do
      you think?

      The book is well over a thousand pages and it can and
      should be read over and over. It begins to worm it's way
      into one's subconscious. It is a wonderful, wonderful book.
      IMO. :-)



      The New NonDuality Salon FAQ v1.0 May 8 2000 Compiled by
      Gene Poole

      Part 1: Introduction: NonDualitySalon FAQ

      Q: What is Nonduality Salon FAQ?

      A: NonDuality FAQ (pronounced 'FAH-QUE' or 'FAK' [as in
      'FAQ me, baby!]) is your comprehensive guide to the wild
      and whacky world of 'Nonduality', especially in the context
      of the renowned NonDuality Salon, a world-famous mailing
      list. To subscribe to NonDuality Salon (NDS), go to:


      Q: Who should be reading this FAQ?

      A: Anyone who can keep their balance while standing on the
      shoulders of others; anyone who cannot keep their balance
      in those apparent circumstances; anyone who does not NEED
      to stand on shoulders; anyone who has fallen, and cannot
      get up; anyone standing less than free; anyone standing in
      the shadows; or, anyone standing on the shoulder, thumb
      elevated in the classical 'hitchhiker' motif.

      Also, anyone wishing to engender feelings of 'inherent
      superiority', 'not good enough', 'Better than', 'suspicious
      of other's motives', or of oscillating ocelots.

      Q: Is it true that NDS is inhabited by numerous 'hopeless
      cases', who have for the most part, not quite realized such
      as yet?

      A: Who have you been talking to? Those of us who
      participate in NDS have passed beyond 'hope', and have thus
      risen far above 'hopelessness'.

      Q: How can 'nonduality' have a FAQ, when essentially
      nothing is known about 'it', since when 'it' appears, there
      is (by definition) nobody there to experience 'it'?

      A: Little is known, and even less understood, about the
      unknown. This FAQ is based SOLELY upon undiscovered
      evidence, which links an unimaginable experience with the
      sayings and advocacy of persons reputed to have had this
      aforementioned nonexperience. The lack of an experiencer is
      in no way evidence of lack of experience.

      "It takes a nonperson, to have a nonexperience!"

      Q: What about this thing about standing on shoulders? Is
      that best done with, or without, footwear?

      A: The seeker is advised to wear spiked golf-shoes, to get
      the attention of the one upon whom they wish to stand. Only
      in this way, can the essentially annoying, repetitive
      whinings of the 'seeker' be fully heard. Then it is up to
      the Master to make up, on the spot, pithy yet enigmatic
      'sayings', which will be transcribed as immortal words of
      transcendental wisdom.

      Q: Isn't that a little judgemental?

      A: "Who" is to judge? Who is the warden of your personal
      prison? Who enjoys the pizza that you eat?

      Q: Does nonduality have a special diet?

      A: Nondual Abidance removes any arbitrary restrictions of
      diet. Knowing that we literally are 'what we eat', we eat
      each-other and ourselves with gusto. This is of course, to
      be understood outside of the context of sexuality.

      Q: This sounds really cool... does this mean that I can do
      what I want, and eat what I want?

      A: Absolutely! Any eating, is simply something eating
      itself. If the nature of self offends, spit yourself out!

      Q: If there is only 'one thing', what about 'cause and
      effect'? Can thousands of years of 'common sense' actually
      be wrong?

      A: Imagine a tape-recorder, playing back a tape. Now,
      imagine that machine saying to itself; "Wow, I am so
      creative! Just listen to this beautiful music I am making!"
      This is our situation and the flaw in our 'common sense'.
      We continually mistake what is happening, to be the
      products of our 'doing'. It is questionable that anyone has
      ever really 'done' anything!

      Q: But what about 'free will' and 'volition'? I mean... are
      you saying that we are mere robots, enacting a script?

      A: We are free to perceive directly, or through layers of
      interpretation; that is the extent of 'free will'.

      We are free to enact upon either version, the 'direct' or
      'interpreted' version, as we will; that is the extent of

      The human concept of 'robot' is of course, arranged to make
      'robot' seem less than human, and human 'more than' robot.
      In reality, human and robot are the same.

      Q: Now, just a minute! Are you calling me a robot?

      A: What is a robot?

      Q: Uh... a robot is a machine that does what it is told or
      programmed to do.

      A: And you are not a robot?

      Q: Well... robots are made of metal or other nonorganic
      materials, aren't they?

      A: Most are not, no. A very few are, in comparison to the
      organic ones.

      Q: Now I am really confused! How can a robot have

      A: Perhaps by realizing it's robotness...

      Q: Shit! That was a dirty trick!

      A: Gotcha!



      Often on the spiritual path, the topics of best postures,
      best technique of meditation, best behavior conducive to
      spiritual growth, best guru, etc. come up. All of these
      questions are appropriate to their time and space.
      Underlying such questions is the fundamental theme or
      inquiry as to what constitutes superior spiritual practice
      that will lead to improvement in one's condition and
      finally Self-Realization. In this perspective,
      Self-Realizations is viewed as an attainment. This point of
      view emphasizes the need to focus consciousness on
      "something" or to "do something" with consciousness. it can
      involve meditating in a particular posture, focusing on
      chakras, mantras, breathing, etc. The Yoga paths are based
      on this perspective. What practice or behavior will be
      helpful to the seeker on such a path seems to depend on
      one’s conditioning, physiology, culture, background, etc.

      For the one abiding spontaneously and inherently in the
      Truth of Reality, questions of method, technique, and
      practice become moot. When Clarity of Self arises, any
      technique may be practiced and any path may be walked or
      one may give up all techniques and paths. For such a
      person, the Self-attention itself absorbs attention
      regardless of where it is focused outwardly. The essential
      element in this understanding is the Recognition by
      Awareness of its Innate Wakefulness. Awareness is always
      self-aware by its very nature.

      When awareness remains pure and unfocused (focused on
      nothing in particular and falling continuously upon itself,
      consuming itself), the subtle duality between
      awareness/attention (as Pure I AM) and its Source is seen
      to be illusory. Here the witness disappears, there being
      nothing to witness. The I AM disappears. Spontaneously with
      the I AM/Awareness/Shakti merging in its Source, It
      Recognizes It Self as the Source. It Sees and Recognizes
      that It has Always Been the Source. That It Is the Eternal
      Source. This is the Supreme Beauty of the Heart. It absorbs
      the Shakti, and along with it, swallows time and space
      itself. How can one speak of that Silence. Great sages like
      Ramana never tire of pointing out that, That Which is Real
      and Absolute Always Exists and is not absent even now.
      Grasp this present ordinary awareness, hold on to it like a
      mother holds on firmly to her child. Keep Coming back to
      This, until you See that you have never been without It and
      everything rises and fall in It Alone.



      I feel that this "I don't know" is meaningful only after a
      good amount of inquiry, otherwise it's just laziness or
      dumbness. I'd say there are two sorts of inquiry: outward
      inquiry and self-inquiry. The former results in recognizing
      that we are wearing a mask (the personality) and eventually
      discarding it, by asking "am I really this, that...?"
      Self-inquiry is trickier, as there seems to be no answer to
      the question "whan then am I?" But at least the very asking
      may lead to feeling the presence of the unknowable, and
      come to a rest there. The result is silence, which is
      another word for "I don't know".



      I used to be an "understanding" addict. I was caught in
      that desire with a passion. That's one level - the craving
      for something I didn't have or wanted more of and expecting
      that satisfaction/fulfillment would come through what I

      I also had a strong identity as a smart person who seeks
      greater understanding. That's another level

      A third is, I didn't discover until this boundless silence
      took over, that understanding arises as needed and requires
      no advance questioning on my part.

      Then there's this - I just found I had no more questions.

      Joy instead.



      Hi all, good to be back. Mark, you asked about lovely
      things and places in Boston. From my visit, I recommend;
      1.) Baseball at Fenway, bleachers seat, something sublime
      about the whole thing, the light fading in the sky, the
      floodlit grass, happy rowdy fans, beer hotdogs peanuts,
      that long moment as 33000 people watch the ball soar over
      the wall for a homerun. 2.) The Arnold Arboretum, 250 acres
      of beautiful exotic and domestic trees, ancient bonsai in
      the bonsai house, the rhododendrons weren't quite out yet,
      but should be out when you're there. 3.) The Museum of Fine
      Art (MFA), which would take a day at least to see properly,
      but two things there in particular, a 10 foot tall stone
      statue of Guanyin (bodhissatva of compassion) from China
      6th century, she's tall, slim and lovely, you could fall in
      love with her, and an El Greco painting of Saint Catherine
      in the European paintings section, which is so charged with
      spiritual bliss it almost knocks you down.


      ED: When words resonate in the heart, Grace allows them to
      be heard.

      XAN: Sometimes, sometimes not, no guarantees.

      ED(?):True, but if you take out Grace Insurance you can get
      your money back. :-)

      JAN: The only insurance of Dr. Yama's waiting room is the
      exit :)


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