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Sunday/May 7

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  • umbada@ns.sympatico.ca
    Yeah! It is a trick. And I love it. What a blessed mess! But I do love it so. Call me crazy, call me what you will. Don t care. Ain t gonna study war no more!
    Message 1 of 1 , May 9 6:10 AM
      Yeah! It is a trick. And I love it.
      What a blessed mess! But I do love it so.
      Call me crazy, call me what you will.
      Don't care. Ain't gonna study war no more!

      Hup Ho!
      Don'cha know
      Beings of light
      Beings of dark
      All are illusion
      Beat the drums of Life and Play!
      Hup Ho!


      Peace - and Love - Michael



      Do they see me, who say they know me?

      I know them not and they know me not.

      They have addressed an image,
      frozen in the mind -- which
      itself is merely a grasping
      which holds nothing.

      I, who am thus come and gone,
      am unrecognized.

      They address me not, who think
      they know me.


      Jan Barendrecht uploaded photos of his guest in Tenerife,
      Liliana Peschal, longtime participator in these lists.


      While you're in the photos section view the artistic photos
      -- including ones of Jan -- taken by Liliana in Tenerife,
      The Canary Islands.


      And, heck, just to round out the picture, may as well view
      gorgeous photos of Tenerife at

      signed, Tenerife Board of Tourism



      The practice of brahmacarya by itself is worthless and
      probably impossible unless it is rooted in devotion; that
      this is a fact will surface through devotional works,
      mostly poems and there are many, even by those having
      practiced a form of self-enquiry. When the "goal" (no "I")
      is "reached", often devotion is forgotten by those who were
      "forced" to it and that one can rejoice in all feelings as
      they have been purified from the false notions simultaneous
      with the end of "I" - the Buddha mentioned this (rejoicing
      one's feelings again) as a possibility - isn't known.

      The hidden hint is that "progress" from then on will be
      independent from whatever practice as practice pertains to
      the "I". But tendencies are like flywheels: when the power
      stops, they keep on running for a while. So the practice of
      negating and ignoring the mind-body will continue to
      influence one's life whereas the mind-body could be enjoyed
      to the full, without attachment, detachment or delusion. It
      is like saying that the beauty of a flower can't be enjoyed
      because its nature is transient. Without the burden of the
      emotional memory, trauma-like events have become impossible
      as "the root of suffering" has been extracted and this
      enables one to "experience" everything "as is".

      Those unfamiliar with devotion could even be unpleasantly
      surprised by the fact that their "natural" responses now
      are completely out of control, instead of under control of
      the "I" and its sadhana; the consequences are

      So if and how Maya will be enjoyed will depend on one's
      practice that led to nirvana...



      Dear Glo,

      Like everyone else (or most everyone else?), I don't really
      know what the hell I'm talking about (or even why I'm
      talking about it), but I go ahead and talk about it anyway,
      for the joy of it. If/when the joy goes out of it, I often
      leave here for awhile.

      Words have no power, other than as they resonate (or don't
      resonate) with the reader. It's when the personal enters
      the equation that problems tend to arise (somehow, the
      mailing list forum seems to encourage the personal outlook,
      whereas books don't). Some focus on the personality of the
      writer -- it's important to them. Some don't feel there
      even is such a thing as individuality, or personality.

      Sometimes I speak with authority, or in an authoritative
      tone. I don't mean to come across as arrogant... in fact, I
      don't mean to come across as anything at all. How can what
      I say possibly have an influence on the reader, other than
      what they themselves add to it?

      (Sometimes I wonder though, if it were a famous sage
      talking rather than me, if it would be perceived as...
      never mind. :-)

      My life is devoted to 'nondual discovery.' This isn't a
      sunday afternoon church thing to me. Sometimes (often?) I
      get too serious, because... well, I can't put it into
      words. Dan-Ji used a term I forgot, maybe it was "urgency."
      These matters are of utmost urgency here. There is a lot of
      choicelessness involved. The motive is love, the obstacle
      is thought.

      Nisargadatta: "The mind creates the bridge, the heart
      crosses it."

      I love you too,




      Those who stand on the shoulders of others are liable to
      fall and break their necks. It is only useful until the
      "inner Guru" (Grace, Satguru, the Self) is discovered.
      After that, there is only standing alone. You do yourself a
      great disservice by clinging to the belief that others are
      necessarily on a spiritual "quest." ... All thought is
      derivative, but "Being-knowing" (see Jean Klein) is not
      derivative. If you do not believe in the presence of an
      "inner Guru," it is because you have not discovered It yet
      within yourself. It *is* yourSelf.



      Sharon was telling me yesterday that for her what it felt
      like was all of a sudden she was in one of those cattle
      shutes heading down the shute without any way out and she
      knew this was it. And I laughed and said, yes, that's what
      it was like for me too. There was no place else to go
      except down that shute! :-) Criminies! :-)


      I had a choice, be the one afraid, or be the One that
      shines. I chose the One that shines, and immediately
      afterward the one who was afraid began to dissolve. This
      caught me by surprise, and I tried to "catch myself" as "I"
      was dissolving, but to no avail. It was permanent. There
      was no turning back.

      The next day at work I marveled at the fact that I *could*
      work at all. Everything was as it had always been, while I
      was as never before.

      After a few weeks the one afraid resurfaced, but the sense
      of "I" was cut free from its moorings. I remember being
      disappointed, but upon simple reflection it became clear
      that while this sense of individual self remained, with all
      its unfinished business, I was still the One that shined,
      and the unfinished business was a "place" that I visited
      and worked at.



      DAVE: " (...) Some of us know that there is no one among us
      who IS to be journeying, but until we make the journey we
      can not see that. (...)"

      MIGUEL-ANGEL: I don't understand. Who/What is it that
      journeys? The Self? The mind?

      DAVE: Oh what a journey it is.

      The sentence which you quote seems to have a contradiction,
      but when looked at more profoundly, it is not at all so.

      Before making the journey, we do not know that we are not
      separate, it hadn't occurred to us (heaven forbid) that we
      REALLY don't exist as a separate entity. Now for most of
      the world, this realization never happens. For those among
      us here on this list, it happens to a much greater
      percentage, some sooner, some later, some perhaps only

      Now if your question is serious, one could suppose a couple
      of things:

      1) That since before you can remember, you always knew you
      were not seperate, in which case, go to some beach
      somewhere and put your feet up, because there's nothing
      more to do. It would be difficult for you to even help
      "others" make the journey.

      2) Or that your understanding of non-separation is still
      fairly intellectual, making it difficult to understand the
      contradiction of the sentence.

      Anyways, your question could also be a nudge, in which case
      I will try to be more direct in the answer.

      It is the Self, and the mind that make the journey, the
      ego, which is constructed for the very purpose. It's like
      we are little vehicles or cocoons. Where does that Self
      come from? That's the delicious part.

      Those of us who have been touched, have seen that... How
      does one expalin? Before I saw anything I was separate, and
      that seemed normal. When I saw I AM, I saw that I was
      separate, but it was very confusing, something didn't make
      sense. I started the journey, thinking I was still
      separate, although I had seen "existance". I was confused,
      I had the same question, as you perhaps, but backwards,
      "how can it be that I AM?". My ego was so strong, it didn't
      want me to see the "whole truth". How was I going to answer
      that question? I finally realized that if I removed the
      "I", the question didn't need answering.

      That is "my" experience. It appears that it is distinct for
      others. The question must arise, or nothing happens. In my
      case, a peek at the answer made the question arise. It must
      be more difficult for those in which the question arises
      from intellectual curiosity, because somehow I feel that
      the peek at the answer doesn't necesarily come from the
      question. It comes when the mind is blank... I must have
      been good at that :-)



      JERRY: Well, let's say this list is biased. There's a
      sphere of perception that has formed and stands alongside
      all other spheres of perception. We've become a spiritual
      plasma. Now what?

      GENE: Now we bounce and abide, amongst the other spheres of
      plasma; within this sphere, are many spheres. It is the
      movement of the spheres within the sphere, which determine
      the shape of the NDSphere. Perhaps 'now what' is to allow
      the establishment of syncretistic abidance; first among the
      spheres within the NDSphere, and then eventually, between
      the NDSphere and the other 'spheres of perception'. Such a
      syncretism needs a common base; that base being, 'what is',
      and what is, is the Great Sphere in which all spheres of
      perception interact. Each individual sphere is able to
      perceive itself from the POV of the Great Sphere. From this
      POV of looking in, may occur the POV of looking out; what
      is seen?

      JERRY: Prior to any list, this existed. Therefore, can a
      person ever leave? Isn't this like a level of manifestation
      we find ourselves on?

      GENE: Awakening, shaking off the sleep, to find myself
      onboard a huge, self-sustaining spaceship, hurtling through
      the cosmos, warmed by a nearby 'star'. I struggle to find
      the controls; in the meantime, I reconcile myself with the
      possibility that 'this is all there is'. Besides, whoever
      made this whole thing, hid the controls from those who are
      not yet competent to make command decisions. I see; only by
      mastering my mini-ship, will I be competent to fly the Big
      One. Only by skillful means, can I pilot my own course; in
      the meantime, Grace is my autopilot.

      JERRY: Or like a Ray of Knowledge? How much choice do we
      really have? Isn't Pure Being the name of the incense in
      God's cult house? How free is anyone? How do you get out of
      the plasma?

      GENE: I am this plasma; I am plasmatic, formless, ethereal,
      all-pervasive, energetic and static; I am the basis for
      electrostatically charged meat, I am the protoplasm which
      that meat is. I am the organizational information which
      regulates the survival of that meat, and I am the complex
      of information which has ordered itself into a simulation
      of identity, and I have a name for that... which is

      ==Gene Poole==


      TIM GERCHMEZ: Mental concepts are the only thing that
      prevent clear seeing, or "Being-knowing." How many
      understand the nature and extent of the concept-web in
      which we are woven?

      ROGER ISAACS: Thanks for your post Tim.

      I'm not entirely comfortable with "mental concepts are the
      ONLY thing that prevent clear seeing..."

      Certainly mental concepts can be a major block. I'm sure
      that for some people clearly recognizing this is
      sufficient. Yet, the problem could be approached from
      different angles.

      But what about emotion? Powerful emotion seems like it
      might be prior to thought, a deep raging fire prior to
      thought. Will the tidal wave of emotion cease while our
      external lives are not in order? As Barry Long says "you've
      got to get your life together".

      How about looking at this from the perspective of a more
      physical approach. Even if mental conceptualization ceases,
      if the body is not purified sufficiently, clear seeing will
      not occur. I'm taking the kundalini approach here. From
      this perspective it's not mental conceptualizing that's the
      block. The blockages are more physical in nature. The
      rising kundalini extinguishes thought, so in this approach
      perhaps nothing need be considered except tending the fire.

      I'm sure there are other ways of looking at this...

      Tim, I find much of what you say very moving, I'm touched
      deeply by some of your words. HOWEVER, you seem to have a
      bit the "...THE ONLY THING..." disease. That's egoic
      identification isn't it? Creation is extraordinarily
      diverse, those who proclaim "...THE ONLY THING..." or
      "...THE ONLY WAY..." are exposing their own internal
      conflict and inviting those who hear their words to step
      into these subtle conflicts & subtle identifications.



      the one thing that matters for me at this moment, is this
      sense of *me*. i prefer it calling that instead of *ego*
      because ego has a sense of reality in it whilst * sense of
      me* indicates somehow that it's not *really real*. So
      personally i am not concerned at all with names and i don;t
      care if it's a feeling or an emotion or whatever one wants
      to call it. that's psychoanalysis and that's something that
      does not interest me at all. there is this sense of *me*
      that declares itself the center of everything. so whatever
      i do, is done from this center and is therefor very very
      limited. It is created by our needs and desires and is
      rebuild over and over again by those same things. It keeps
      itself alive in this way. Little by little the the
      realization is dawning that there's nothing you can do.
      Whatever the *me* does, it does it to achieve something and
      thereby reinforces itself. endlessly. and whatever means
      whatever. everything you do and that means *everything*.
      However beautiful a thought or a concept or a dream is, it
      is just that. Nothing of any value. A fire will never go
      out if you keep on feeding it. So that's where i am. Let it
      happen. If i am this i am this if i am that i am that if i
      am sad i am sad. that's what i am. that's all. I am the
      totality of it all. that's why the mind can not contain it.
      all the rest are inventions. We have to let go of all our
      stories and look at things afresh without any knowledge.
      Reality can not be know, it is simply there right before
      our eyes. It was a beautful day today. we walked throught
      the park and i realized all this beauty is just there. we
      don't have to do anything. To look at it is ok, Not to look
      is ok. Daydreaming is ok. Speaking to yourself all the
      time, is ok. Do not condemn it, do not hold unto it.
      there's nothing to gain or to loose. it is as it is.



      Reality/Self/God/ (or whatever we choose to call it) seems
      too utterly mysterious to be confined to only approaching
      it in a particular way. All approaches and paths to the
      truth belong to the mind. Yet, the mind itself is stunned
      into Silence and dissolves when pulled into Reality. So
      what can be really said other than that, everyone may
      approach and love and worship their God in any way they
      like. After all, even the way we approach the path or God
      or Self is not in any sense up to us. It is the
      irresistible pull of the Heart manifesting in innumerable

      And as Pascal said, Heart has its reasons, which reason
      cannot know. It seems like that to me.



      Surrounding the lovely campground at Capitol Reef NP,
      Utah.. amidst flowering orchards, stand thousands of trees
      each containing multiple 10 inch opaque sacs. Being curious
      about what might be contained therein, I walked under one
      tree and saw, within each sac, hundreds of squirming
      caterpillars. As I stood looking up, one such creature
      'wormed' his way out of the sac and landed *plop* on my
      forehead. I wish I could say that I had the peace of mind
      to stand still and let it make it's way down my face, but I
      was so startled that I jumped back and then stood and
      watched it crawl around my feet. Perhaps, I'd softened it's
      landing. Certainly it opened mine. I then observed that
      there were hundreds of these caterpillars milling around..
      each on their journey to becoming... as Judi says.. ******
      Free at last, free at last, Praise God I'm free at last!!

      crawling till we soar.. Chrystiana
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