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ND digest for Thursday, July 1

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  • Melody
    From: MelodyNondual Digest - for Thursday, July 1, 1999:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From:
    Message 1 of 1 , Jul 2, 1999
      From: Melody <melody@...>

      Nondual Digest - for Thursday, July 1, 1999:

      From: umbada@... (Jerry M. Katz)

      Nonduality website has added the following 'nondual people':

      Erik Asmussen (our first architect!), Bob Bays, Thaddeus
      Golas, Greg Goode, Kay, Frank Maiello, Robert Rabbin, Swami

      Thank you.

      (An interesting, ongoing discussion between
      Dan and Ivan continues this week in the Salon.
      It is a discussion that doesn't lend itself to
      digesting very well, so I offer a 'snippet'...
      and invite those interested in hearing more to
      visit the archives of the Nonduality Salon to
      read more.....)

      Dan: Just as an aside, I'm remembering that in Norse mythology, Odin the
      One-Eye (and most powerful god) had two ravens named Thought and Memory.
      Thought, to me, includes memory. Thought is active in the encoding of
      memory, as well as searching the "memory data bank," the retrieval of
      memory, and its application in relation to sense perception. This occurs
      moment to moment, includes the organization of perceptible forms, as well
      as operations upon these forms to achieve desired ends (anything from a
      paycheck to a meal to a friendship, etc.)

      Ivan: I just want to stress that the brain functions as partly
      described above (such as recognising objects, driving a car),
      are nescessary and non-disturbing. These instinctual functions
      are usefull, otherwise we would have to learn any basic behavior
      on and on again -- we wouldn't even recognise a wife :^)
      We are concerned with that function of thought/brain that
      is responsable for the apearence of the center, making one
      to be in the field of centered-awareness.


      From: bobbays@... (Bob Bays):

      My first encounter (of three) with Krishnamurti affords a good example
      of a universal characteristic of Awakened Ones - the ability to read at
      a glance just where anyone is coming from:

      K. was standing outside the tent after a talk, greeting those who lined
      up to shake his hand and perhaps exchange a word or two. At that time I
      was absolutely in awe of the man, and therefore rather "out of it." As I
      approached him his hand was extended to shake mine, but when our eyes
      met, without saying a word he gently withdrew his hand with a smile and
      waved me on. The later encounters were cordial and showed a wonderful
      gentleness and compassion.

      One more little note: Krishnamurti almost never used the first person
      pronoun, usually referring to himself as "the speaker," "one" or simply

      OM shantih,



      Yes. Thank you, Bob. I'll share something extremely nondual
      about Krishnamurti's teaching that I came across 20 years
      ago and that influenced me. I don't have a quote, but he
      said that truth lies in transformation, in 'process', not in
      attainment, not in the final state. It's extremely nondual
      to say that the final fulfillment is beyond truth, but it's
      not that either. You can't talk about it.



      Also from Jerry:

      This is an oldy but a goody from my website:

      Nonduality of Whitman: The Song of Myself Re-arrangement

      Each poem, separate by a dotted line, is actually a composite of two or
      more passages from Whitman's Song of Myself.


      This is the grass that grows wherever the land is and the water is,

      This is the common air that bathes the globe.

      The atmosphere is not a perfume....it has no taste of the

      distillation....it is odorless,

      It is for my mouth forever....I am in love with it,

      I do not know it....it is without name....it is a word unsaid,

      It is not in any dictionary or utterance or symbol.


      I exist as I am, that is enough,

      If no other in the world be aware I sit content,

      And if each and all be aware I sit content.

      The suns I see and the suns I cannot see are in their place.

      The palpable is in its place and the impalpable is in its place.

      And will never be any more perfection than there is now,

      Nor any more heaven or hell than there is now.


      All forces have been steadily employed to complete and

      delight me,

      Now I stand on this spot with my soul.

      My foothold is tenoned and mortised in granite,

      I laugh at what you call dissolution,

      And I know the amplitude of time.

      I have no mockings or arguments....I witness and wait


      I heard what was said of the universe,

      Heard it and heard of several thousand years;

      It is middling well as far as it goes....but is that all?

      This day before dawn I ascended a hill and looked at the

      crowded heaven,

      And I said to my spirit, When we become the enfolders of

      those orbs and the pleasure and knowledge of every

      thing in them, shall we be filled and satisfied then?

      And my spirit said No, we level that lift to pass and

      continue beyond.

      What is known I strip away....I launch all men and

      women forward with me into the unknown.


      The insignificant is as big to me as any,

      What is less or more than a touch?

      I am an acme of things accomplished, and I an encloser

      of things to be.

      I find letters from God dropped in the street, and every one

      is signed by God's name,

      And I leave them where they are, for I know that others

      will punctually come forever and ever.


      from Ivan:

      How strange is this. When a person sees through the self,
      the images, the imagined purposes of oneself and one's
      everchanging but ever important motives in life -- when all
      that is done and out.....then the real purpose of being comes
      forth....and in its irrefutable real exence comes a message:
      -- "unknown".


      I have been contemplating for a long time the
      nonseparation of self and other. Many posts
      here and other places have been helpful in this.
      Now, I'm wondering. Perhaps it's time for me
      to focus on separating myself from everything.
      If I can really manage to separate myself from
      all this and act as an independent agent,
      everything will still be as nondual as it ever was, won't it?
      Bored with being nonseparate


      There comes a time when what
      we don't want yields to what we
      do want; when what we think is
      nonseparation yields to wholeness.
      It's inevitable.



      Marcia offered:

      From "Four Quartets" by T.S. Eliot

      We shall not cease from exploration

      And the end of all our exploring

      Will be to arrive where we started

      And know the place for the first time.


      From: Tim Gerchmez <fewtch@...>

      Dear List,

      I find myself walking on Holy Ground today. For years I have covered up
      myself against the abuse of my father in childhood, hidden in rage and
      bitterness and sadness. Today I see for the first time (deeply, not
      mentally) who my father really is, and I realized that I love him deeply.
      He has changed greatly since those earlier years, and so have I. I realize
      that underneath the sometimes egotistical, harsh and judgmental personality
      lies an innocent person, a child, who delights in nature and in animals,
      and who writes poetry (which I hear is pretty darned good). I didn't even
      know my father wrote poetry until recently. Imagine that... living 35
      years and not knowing your own father was a poet...

      Holding this love for my father, I find that the Shiva/Shakti within me is
      at last united. I see now that underneath EVERYONE, from the saint to the
      mass murderer, lies a tender, innocent and vulnerable soul, which has only
      defended itself against the circumstances it found itself in as best it
      could. I can see the Divinity in everyone, and in EVERYTHING. It is so
      childlike and vulnerable... innocent, delighting in everything It sees,
      loving everyone so deeply... and the friction of this world has covered
      this vulnerable self in almost everyone with layers of defenses.

      That's why I say I walk on Holy Ground today. Shiva and Shakti can unite
      within me at last. I hated the Shiva within me for a long time. Now I
      love Him unconditionally.

      OM Shanti OM Shanti Shanti,



      The following have been added to the Nonduality.com website. Thanks to Bob
      Bays and Bruce Morgen for suggestions.

      Franklin Merrell-Wolff

      1.Consciousness-without-an-object is.
      2.Before objects were Consciousness-without-an-object is.
      3.Though objects seem to exist Consciousness-without-an-object is.
      4.When objects vanish yet remaining through all unaffected
      Consciousness-without-an-object is.
      5.Outside of Consciousness-without-an-object nothing is.

      Sri Ranjit Maharaj.

      "The Deer who runs all day long after a mirage in search of water feels
      unlucky when the sun sets. Man also strives hard all life long for the
      illusive happiness, and dies in misery. All human beings think that they
      get happiness from other objects or persons, but that is not true."

      Added Jim Moore's What To Know About Karma, to the Karma page.


      Chetana published the original I Am That, by Nisargadatta. They also
      published Krishnamurti back in the 50's. For those of you having a hard
      time getting a copy of I Am That, they claim to be selling them for only
      $17U.S. There's some good stuff on the forum though hardly anyone goes
      there. It's an undiscovered beach.

      Chetana Spiritual Forum.


      From: Xanma@...

      from Chuangtse (a Taoist):

      "The knowledge of the ancients was perfect.
      How perfect? I will tell you. At first they did
      not yet know that there were things. This is
      the most perfect knowledge; nothing can be
      added. Next they knew things but did not yet
      make distinctions between them. Next they
      made distinctions between them but did not
      yet pass judgements upon them. When judge-
      ment was passed, Tao was destroyed. With
      the destruction of Tao, individual preferences
      come into being.

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