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Wed./May 3

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  • umbada@ns.sympatico.ca
    DAN BERKOW Behind the imagined mask, is the imagined space behind the mask. What is real isn t the mask, nor in the space behind the mask. *** Laughing is
    Message 1 of 1 , May 5, 2000

      Behind the imagined mask,
      is the imagined space
      behind the mask.
      What is real isn't
      the mask, nor in
      the space behind
      the mask.


      Laughing is definitely good for the soul,
      particularly at simple absurdity.
      Humor seems a double-edged sword -
      it may be a defense that keeps
      the world intact,
      Or it may be breaking through
      the stuckness and pretensions of the world -
      a willingness to see everything
      presumed real shattered.



      I was raised with no religion at all. And to be honest i am
      grateful for it because to me this would have been a lot of
      problems with my family, because i would not have been able
      to fit in any beliefsystem. I was rather rebellious about
      it. In this way, i stayed open minded. No path was set.
      Anyway, the whole concept of a God as it has been created
      by the Church is a farce to me. I am not speaking of one's
      own inner religion not based on any particular belief
      system, which is something quite different. But this whole
      makebelief system of the Church is doing a lot of harm and
      makes people think that they are *on the right track* which
      of course is not so, it is very superficial and not at all
      based upon selfinquiry, hence a lot of hypocrisy.

      I welcome any discussion about the things we are talking
      about on the list, but i must say that i do not really
      depend on it, because there is something inside of me that
      keeps ringing bells and i know from early childhood that
      *something is wrong somewhere* (whatever that means). I
      know for certain that reality is something entirely
      different from what i perceive, because our inner
      mechanisms distort it. But i never got any further than
      that and i have no idea either how i came to know that.
      Maybe in very early childhood there have been certain
      events of realization (that i do not conciously remember)
      or it is something build-in, i honestly do not know.

      I am not really concerned about higher things. For me it is
      clear that the problem resides in ourselves, in our never
      ending capacity to conceptualize and to filter everything
      that enters our poor brains. As i told Neo just now in
      another post, i am waiting that thought gets tired of me,
      because i do not seem to get tired of thought.

      I have done several so-called therapy groups in the past,
      but somehow that does not work with me or i do not want to
      work it that way.

      There are 2 enlightened masters (at least that's how i see
      them) : Osho and Jiddu Khrishnamurti and they are both very
      dear to me. However, their approach is not at all the same,
      although i see very clearly that their aim is exactly the
      same. But Jiddu Khrishnamurti is on top, because his
      approach is (although he denies it) through the mind and
      Osho's approach is through the heart. And I know for myself
      that i will not be at peace (due to my optimistic nature,
      this is endurable) before my mind somehow gets so weary of
      itself that it agrees to step aside.

      Needless to say that we are all different aspects of the
      whole Universe, all playing our game in a different way.

      While writing this post, i read another one that just came
      in from Judi with a quote from Adi Da : we are all talking
      about our adventure, and so be it.


      Miguel-Angel Carrasco has provided an extensive compilation
      of Nisargadatta's words, over 70 printed pages. 'Asmi:
      Excerpts from Nisargadatta Maharaj's I Am That', is a whole
      new look at the classic work. Thank you, Miguel. --Jerry



      HANS: ...in my own experience with people around me there
      are very very few poeple (to be honest i do not know of any
      in my own circle of family, friends and aquaintances) that
      are even close to starting any of such inquiries. If they
      experience some kind of problem, then sometimes i ask if
      they ever relate this to themselves. Usually, this is what
      i am told : "What the hell are you talking about ?" and the

      MARCIA: This is a very good point. To me it is critical to
      have others that I meet with regularly to help me re-member
      myself. Otherwise it is entirely possible to go days
      without re-membering myself once. It is like a distant echo
      or something. The connection with my group is theoretical,
      personal, and social. There is something real being forged
      as we meditate, socialize, do Movements, and talk over our
      personal work for the week. There is something that clicks
      each week, a finer energy produced which can be felt.

      I was listening to a Peter, Paul, and Mary song yesterday
      that went something like....

      I was riding in a train going west blah, blah, asleep for
      to take my rest I dreamed a dream that made me sad blah,
      blah and the good friends I had. :-)

      When I first found the Work (Gurdjieff) I was fairly young.
      I moved in communally with people. We meditated together
      everyday, talk things over, ate together, had children (not
      together but in pairs). Something was forged in me which
      has never died. Those long get togethers where we sat and
      went round and round about self observation and talked over
      our impressions and our lives and set aims and loved God
      and read books. I found community with higher aim. I
      married my husband in the Work. We have a common ground
      between us based on the most sacred part of ourselves. All
      the garbage that came later when/as we grew up, became
      professional, bought houses and sunk into image was all
      built on very solid ground.

      Taking my friend home from the meeting the other night. He
      starts to tell me about how he was always interested in HC
      (higher consciousness) ideas since he was a small child. I
      said to him that I knew he was. I asked him if he realized
      how special it was to have people like we do that want to
      talk about this stuff like we do. We are all so interested
      in this. In life you never find this. Go to the grocery
      store, to a meeting at the school blah, blah...you never
      find anyone.



      MARCIA: I think the difficulty is not earnestness itself
      but that it all moves so fast. I can be perfectly honest
      about something but it is already gone and another thought
      is up on the screen or another self which doesn't feel the
      same at all. So while I was being earnest I am not longer
      the same person. The lie is the identification i.e. I am an
      earnest person and not that earnestness was making itself
      apparent at one moment in time.

      trying to be smart today

      MARK: I like the story, often told by Ram Dass (and I
      imagine others as well) about Ghandi. He had called for a
      march to display objection to some British action, and many
      people had signed up to walk. He then learned that the
      British planned to cause some trouble, possibly leading to
      harm to the marchers and he called the march off. His
      organization protested loudly to him, telling him that
      people had quit their jobs to participate in the march and
      that it was unfair to change his mind. He replied that his
      duty was to truth, but that as a human being he only knew
      relative truth, and so when the truth seems to change he
      had to change with it because his bottom line was truth. I
      think earnestness carries the risk of getting us into
      nontruthful positions when situations change, so we need to
      be earnest about our ongoing evaluation of what truth is.
      When something comes along that presents a more true
      version, we need to abandon our earlier truth for the new
      one. It may not be that truth itself changes, but our
      perception of it deepens.

      thank you for being smart today, it helped me see this more
      deeply. "smart" seems to me to be a process or direction,
      not a destination.

      Love, Mark


      ADI DA (quoted by Judi Rhodes)

      Adi Da:

      There are two types of people that come. Those who have
      died to their search, and those who still have a couple
      trips left. Regarding those who still have the search in
      mind, there is no condemnation, no praise, no blame. That
      is the state of their condition. The search is still their
      occupation. They have not come for Truth. The Truth has
      nothing whatever to do with them. The search, the adventure
      among alternatives, that is what "has" them. That is what
      has all human beings, until it begins to die. Then the
      Truth becomes possible.

      When you no longer have genuine alternatives, when you no
      longer have the option of your own preferences, when you no
      longer have the capability to persist, to survive in the
      form of your search, then Satsang becomes something more
      than academic. Until that time, all human beings are
      talking about the same thing: their adventure! That is what
      they are talking about. They are not the least concerned
      for the Truth. It hasn't entered into the picture yet. It
      is only an amusement, an alternative notion entertained in
      the midst of ordinary and extraordinary suffering. They are
      still occupied. Fine. But the matter of real religious and
      spiritiual life arises only when the alternatives
      themselves do not present a real option.


      PICK YOUR DOOM -- by JOE

      What a great name for a game. Hell, what a great name for
      much of joe's life! I live, now, in Schenectady, New York.
      Capital of the historic, east- coast rust belt. I grew up
      here. Came back from India to help care for, then bury my
      82 year old father and got married, became a step- dad and
      never left. (Hey, where would I go? Carmel? Tiberon?)
      Actually, I've been trying to make my peace with this place
      which I spent most of my life loathing. In the 50's and
      60's, when I was a kid, it was an amazingly violent and
      mindless town. And in many ways, it's not changed all that
      much. But, also, this place is joe... so if the "I's" that
      loath this place die out, many of the "I's" that loath
      those parts of joe will die out, too. It's going pretty
      well, says the gut... I've thought often about Beelzebub's
      Tales over the years. I've wondered especially about his
      declaration that: "God had to create the world, for the
      absolute was shrinking..." I've also laughed often at his
      description of how they make such watery chicken soup in
      some back alley restaurant in Chicago, U.S.A. He said they
      place a big pot of water on the stove in the middle of the
      kitchen. Then, they open up windows on opposite sides of
      the room. Someone tosses a chicken into the kitchen and the
      fat-necked cook chases the chicken through the kitchen and
      out through the other window and closes it. After this,
      they are free to add vegetables... Take care, judy. -joe
      p.s.- You're in California, eh? I miss it (alot, sometimes)
      but I'm here... At least I can proudly say that I've made a
      complete fool out of myself on BOTH coasts...



      Hans, I had a lot of buried anger from the usual training
      that nice girls don't express anger. When I finally
      realized I don't have to do anything, I started saying no a
      lot. The best part was that afterwards, the authentic and
      truthful underlying kindness emerged. Once I was only
      giving what I truly wanted to give, I enjoyed it more. This
      is pretty basic stuff, like psych 101, but it was a hard
      adjustment for my family at first. I kinda overdid it to
      compensate for my years of servanthood. And I quit my job,
      too. It all felt very selfish at the time. But I was worn
      out...it was about time to get real.


      I have a lot of people around me here that keep shouting
      "it's your fault, because if you had not done this or if
      you had not done that, then i would not feel how i feel".
      And then i try to explain that it has nothing to do with me
      or anybody else and they start screaming even louder :)


      This story woke my sadness.



      NEO: Hans, I am tired of thought.

      JAN: Not a surprise... According to science, the female
      body is default*, meaning that the male mind-body is but a
      utilitarian subset of the female mind-body (LOL). In
      practice it means that for instance male responses to
      stimuli are a bit more... face it guys... primitive!:) So
      males shrink away from their body and revert to "more
      important brainwork" (thinking).

      Of course thinking doesn't make happy and when this is
      dawning, the "eureka" is to upgrade the mind with a
      muffler. From this perspective one easily can see the
      multitude of recipes for mufflers (ROTFL)

      So what do you really want? More recipes for mufflers? Why
      not make one yourself?

      In love, there is silence (no thought), no separation (like
      between mind and body), no time. For a lover there is no
      identity, gender, mask, it is all given up (surrendered).
      Therefore, one unconditionally surrendered could be called
      "perfect lover" and such a one can only laugh about the
      everlasting joke of the never ending effort to silence the
      mind :)

      So instead of trying to change yourself (by upgrading the
      mind with a muffler), why not accept yourself, beginning
      with your body? I know, for a man that probably doesn't
      come easy.. :)

      + The silence in love is full whereas a silent mind is
      empty + + While caring for every-thing, love is ever
      forgetful of itself +

      * Of course, a black and white representation for the sake
      of simplicity - there are cases where the reverse is true
      but they are the exception. In Hatha Yoga classes men are a
      minority and what was thought of as social conditioning
      (the caring role of women) appears to be hard-wired. Swami
      Sivananda once remarked that without the devotion of women,
      religion in India wouldn't have survived :)



      I combine meditation with various other excersizes (walking
      around meditation type things) to look at the edge of my
      consciousness, to get to know it, to learn to expand it.
      This is not a thinking process, as firstly I use typical
      quieting techniques to reduce local noise and upon
      detection of a new edge, I bring it into the known..
      quieting it like any ther known thing.

      It's after the exercises (meditation) that the good stuff
      happens. I'm continuously bumping into newly introduced
      edges of consciousness, and those quickly become a part of
      the everyday, permitting room for more expansion.

      We are the Nonduality Generation.
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