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#3350 - Friday, November 14, 2008 - Editor: Jerry Katz

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  • Jerry Katz
    #3351 - Friday, November 14, 2008 - Editor: Jerry Katz Nonduality Highlights - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NDhighlights Nonduality Blog:
    Message 1 of 1 , Nov 15, 2008
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      #3351 - Friday, November 14, 2008 - Editor: Jerry Katz
       
      Nonduality Blog: http://nonduality.org
       
       

       
      Here a couple people who pull away the floor of concepts upon which you may be standing.
       
      Greg Goode writes his weekly Friday column.
       
      Also, from the Urban Guru Cafe, a deconstruction job by John Walker on Ralph who was urging John to reach more seekers.
       
       

       
       
      ==The Ultimate Yardstick, Part I==

      Q:  Is there a true theory or an ultimate yarstick that guarantees that reality is Real, that guarantees the future and certifies the past?

      A:  How could there be?  You can come to see that the idea of an ultimate objective standard makes no sense.  For several reasons:

      1.  Where would you stand as you perform the measuring?  Inside or outside reality?  If you stand inside reality, then you have lost the objective standpoint which is required for a valid measurement.  If you stand outside reality, then that's like standing outside existence.  You can't carry out the task you have set for yourself.  Either way leads to incoherence.

      2.  Do you imagine the process of measuring reality to be like cutting a piece of cloth and measuring it?  Exactly what would you hold the yardstick up to?  And would the yardstick itself be included within reality or outside reality?  Either way leads to incoherence, and would not accomplish what you might require from this measuring.


      ==The Ultimate Yardstick, Part II==

      Without an ultimate yardstick, there are no ultimate guarantees or certifications.  Nothing is ultimately set in stone.  There is no guarantee that any of your ideas corresponds to the Really Real, and no way to do the mapping.  Neither prediction nor memory is proven.  There is no other-than-here, other-than-now. 

      But this is great news!  There is also nothing *lacking*.  There is no lack of contentment.  The looseness in the lack of ultimacy is perfect freedom, openness and love.  Your body/mind-as-object can come and go.  But You as Awareness are there, actually witnessing the coming and going of the body/mind many times every day.  During deep sleep, you as awareness are present, but there's no evidence of the body/mind.  You can't establish that the body/mind is present during deep sleep.  Similarly for any of those experiences of being in the "zone."  During those times, You are there, but there is no evidence of the body/mind.  In fact, virtually all of experience is like a "zone" experience.  Each moment is itself timeless.
       
       
      Greg Goode
       

       
       
      "Pause the concepts and see what is actually present, instead of emphasizing all the conceptual and imaginary distinctions" -JW

      The following is a comment written by John Walker in response to a comment written about a podcast with John.

      The podcast with John is on Urban Guru Cafe, here: http://urbangurucafe.com/wordpress/2008/11/09/21-john-wheeler-what-is-the-truth-of-who-you-are-part-2/#comments

      Gilbert Schultz and John Walker are examples of extreme or neo-advaitins. Ralph is another commenter who is missing the point that the work, purely as work, is the natural way. As a natural way, is it even work? What is it? In this exchange, Ralph's comments are deconstructed:

      Ralph wrote: “See, Gilbert and John are great masters at pointing to the truth of who we are. What they say is true but unfortunately very few will hear the message. I think that they would reach more people if they meet most seekers where they are and from there lead them to see their true nature. In other words get down from the mountaintop and meet the seekers in the valley where they presently live. Few teachers do this.”

      “Gilbert and John” – nothing but figments in your imagination. Notice what those appearances are arising within, to whom they appear. If we are talking about such illusory beings, we are missing what is being pointed to.

      “What they say is true” – Precisely false. Whatever they can possibly say is only a concept, and as such false. As always, look away from words to what is being pointed to.

      “very few will hear the message” – The notion that there a numbers of people “out there” in need of a message is yet one more presently arising notion.

      “they would reach more people” – If they had the concept of reaching more people, they would not have any business talking about this.

      “if they meet most seekers” – Ditto.

      “lead them to see their true nature” – All that can happen is pointing. It is up to you see for yourself. But, practically speaking, what you are suggesting is all that is happening here.

      “mountaintops … valleys” – Pause the concepts and look where you are standing. You are presently living in and as precisely what is being pointed to.

      “teachers” – One of the worst concepts. Anyone who takes on a self-conscious role as a teacher is living in a grand, yet entirely illusory, concept. The hidden assumption is that you are a student. That is a limitation on your unlimited, natural state.

      In sum, and per the usual, pause the concepts and see what is actually present, instead of emphasizing all the conceptual and imaginary distinctions. No one reading these messages is a defective, limited person in need of anything. If this is not clear, have a look and see what is the nature of your present and undeniable being. Then (and only then) are you in a position to determine if notions such as teachers, students, mountaintops and valleys are really adequate descriptions of what you are.

      P.S. Blog boards are limited by nature, being confined to printed words on a screen, which have virtually nothing to do with what this is about. So if the basics of this aren’t precisely clear see if you get in direct contact with someone who has looked into this stuff and can speak from direct experience. Not that they have anything you don’t, but it can be useful to have a direct converstation in e-mail, on the phone, or in person to address whatever particular questions may be present. Most of the people I know who are interested in this and enjoy communicating about what they have experienced are quite willing to talk about things and meet you at whatever place you happen to find yourself, contrary to what Ralph seems to be implying. On the other hand, he DID limit that comment to “teachers”. I am not a aware that anyone posting here is a teacher. Well, perhaps there were one or two, but they didn’t seem to hold up all that well!

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