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highlights of the NDS for Saturday, April 29

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  • Melody
    MARY: Nisargadatta said that there is the I AM and beyond that is the Absolute. I got the impression that one is different from the other. He said the I AM
    Message 1 of 1 , Apr 30 9:12 AM
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      MARY:

      Nisargadatta said that there is the I AM and beyond that is the
      Absolute. I got the impression that one is different from the
      other. He said the I AM started all this mischief.(duality). Mary


      JERRY:

      Some use I AM to mean the Absolute or ultimate realization.
      Some use I AM to mean the highest awareness or state of
      consciousness prior ultimate realization. Some use I AM to
      mean i-am-ness, being-ness, or knowing-ness, and -- even
      like the I AM prior to ultimate awareness -- the basis to it
      is bodily, whereas I AM in the sense of the Absolute is not
      even bodily.

      One can know gradations of meaning in all these terms: I AM,
      i-am-ness, being-ness, knowing-ness, the Absolute. It's a
      mix or match opportunity of which Nisargadatta took
      advantage. This is spelled out in Robert Powell's
      introductory note to The Ultimate Medicine As Prescribed by
      Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj.

      Overall, Nisargadatta did differentiate between I AM and the
      Absoute. See the compilations

      The Nisargadatta Song of I AM
      http://www.nonduality.com/iam.htm

      The Nisargadatta Song of Beyond I AM
      http://www.nonduality.com/beyond.htm

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      JERRY:

      I hear this as the key line in the quote from Papaji:

      "If you identify yourself with the immaculate, Unchanging,
      Eternal
      screen itself, which is the same before, during and after
      the show, you will not change and so you will not suffer the
      changes but enjoy them"

      This is key, because Papaji is not saying one will not be
      moved by the changes; he is not saying that you will not be
      thrown by one word a stranger utters; he is not saying you
      must become a cool customer with a great haircut. By no
      means. He is saying you will enjoy. This is very important.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      MARK:

      I'm having so much fun with this song. Heaven.. I'm in Heaven... I
      went to bed singing it inside, and I woke up singing it. As I sang it
      all morning, it came in various voices. My favorite thus far is Arnold
      Schwartzenegger (sp?) When we're dantzing cloze togedda, cheeck to
      cheeck...


      OH:
      ~~LOL...so funny wrinkled belly tired from heavin'.

      JERRY to OH:

      It's good to hear from you again. I'm singing Heaven I'm in
      Heaven and making up the verses I don't know. Your verses
      change, your chorus is always catchy and lifts me up.


      OH:
      ~~You guys are such dolls. Music of the Dears! ,^)) This poem by Rumi
      just came floatin' over to pile - thought of you:

      WHERE EVERYTHING IS MUSIC

      Don't worry about saving these songs!
      And if one of our instruments breaks, it doesn't matter.
      We have fallen into the place
      where everything is music.

      The strumming and the flute notes
      rise into the atmosphere,
      and even if the whole world's harp
      should burn up, there will still be
      hidden instruments playing.

      This singing is sea foam.

      The graceful movements come from a pearl somewhere
      on the ocean floor.

      Poems reach up like spindrift and the edge of driftwood along the beach,
      wanting!

      They derive
      from a slow and powerful root
      That we can't see.

      Stop the words now.
      Open the window in the center of your chest,
      and let the spirits fly in and out."

      (From The Essential Rumi, Barks)


      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      ANDREW:

      I found an interesting article on the guru-disciple relationship here;

      http://www.3eye.org/gd_relationship.html



      DAN:

      A very useful and clear article.
      Thank you for sharing it.

      I see projection going even farther.
      The author considers the guru and
      student as beings in their
      own right, the ones who make
      projections.
      However, how is one to say where I
      end and me as projection begins
      or vice versa? We see evidence
      of projection, but then we see
      the "I" that sees this as projection
      as well!

      We have interacting projections,
      but no way to say who the projector
      is without making a projection in
      the process.

      Another note here: it's impossible
      to communicate with words, gestures,
      or touch without projection being
      involved.


      ANDREW:

      Hmm, no one to talk to then.
      Nor no talker neither!
      Better stop talking and start singing!
      Big song and dance.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      MIGUEL-ANGEL:

      I'd say that the way to drop all thoughts is by
      replacing them with just the one thought that doesn't
      have to be dropped, the one thought that takes you
      beyond the mind, the thought "I am". That's what
      Nisargadatta advised again and again:

      "Refuse all thoughts exept one: the thought "I am". The
      mind will rebel in the beginning, but with patience and
      perseverance it will yield and keep quiet. Once you are
      quiet, things will begin to happen spontaneously and
      quite naturally."

      "Focus your mind on "I am", which is pure and simple
      being."

      "Just stay in the thought and feeling "I am", focusing
      "I am" firmly in your mind. All kinds of experience may
      come to you - remain in the knowledge that all
      perceivable is transient and only the "I am" endures."

      "The "I am" is not a direction. It is the negation of
      all direction."

      "When you follow my advice and try to keep your mind on
      the notion of "I am" only, you become fully aware of
      your mind and its vagaries."

      "Your dwelling on the fact "I am" will soon create
      another chance [of self-realization]. All you know is
      second-hand. Only "I am" is first-hand and needs no
      proofs. Stay with it."

      "The same mirror that shows you the world as it is,
      will also show you your own face. The thought "I am" is
      the polishing cloth. Use it."

      "I am" is a tiny seed which will grow into a mighty
      tree - quite naturally, without a trace of effort."

      "Just keep in mind the feeling "I am", merge with it,
      till your mind and feeling become one. By repeated
      attempts, you will stumble on the right balance of
      attention and affection, and your mind will be firmly
      established in the thought-feeling "I am". "

      "Relax and watch the "I am". Reality is just behind
      it."

      "The door that locks you in is also the door that lets
      you out. The "I am" is the door. Stay at it until it
      opens. As a matter of fact it is open, only you are not
      at it."

      "Hold on to the sense "I am" to the exclusion of
      everything else. It all comes spontaneously, you need
      only hold on to the "I am". "


      PHIL:

      An interesting thought occurred (!) to me while reading this. Thoughts are in
      themselves not a problem. It's the lack of attention to them while taking their
      meaning for granted -- which is the problem. Replacing several thoughts with
      one thought would not make sense otherwise. Give full attention to *any*
      thought and it is all the same. An analogy is a bubble. A bubble floating in
      the air (visible) is translucent and revelatory. But a bubble in a blood
      vessel (hidden) is lethal.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      also from MIGUEL-ANGEL:

      What is it you are seeking?

      If it is peace of mind, then yes, there are many paths.
      But peace of mind has nothing to do with you. You are
      not the mind.
      If it is your real self, then how can you follow a path
      to be what you are?
      You can't help being what you are already, what you
      always be.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      HANS:

      Until the moment you discovered that the mind is no vehicle to bring truth,
      you have been using the mind. That was right for you until that very
      discovery. The same is true for people who are still using their mind, maybe
      for the wrong things.

      So someone comes along and says to those people : "You are using your mind
      to to find truth, but the mind can not help you to find the truth" and so
      on and so forth.

      Some of them will immediately understand what you say, others won't. That's
      a fact. Nothing works the same for everybody. That simply is not possible.
      However clear it is to you what you are saying, a lot of people simply will
      not understand it or even agree with it. And that is so because they are
      what they are and that might not include the understanding of what you are
      saying.

      I am sure that your I AM proposition does not work for everybody. That is
      simply not possible. A lot of people won't even begin doing it. (I am one of
      them, it simply does not appeal to me) No problem. Reality includes
      everything and that means literally everything, nothing excluded.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      MICHAEL:

      Thoughts are like clouds,
      they come and they go.
      Feelings are like waves,
      they rise and they fall.
      Whatever comes...this too
      shall pass away, how?
      Now is how...now is always how.


      EMILIE:

      Breathing the Peace that you bring to me in and out.

      In the present moment I am........
      Emilie, who is grateful for your gift

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      LARRY:

      Looking is sky and looking is
      who you are. You can't not look. Look at thoughts, look at ideas, look
      at theories, look at beliefs, look at truths, look at jokes, look at
      wisdom, look at pleasures, look at pains, look at boredom. Looking is
      _it_. Look at looking if you are interested in who you are. It is always
      present, never bothered, always on top, just like sky.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      DAN:

      One constructs dualities, then gets caught in the process
      of defending one side of a duality (self, me, good,
      life, enlightenment, right way) against the other
      (other, you, bad, death, ignorance, wrong way).

      There's no other way to resolve this except to see
      *who* is constructing duality and *who* catches self
      in dualities. Continually striving to see some truth,
      have something come about in a certain way, only
      perpetuates duality.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      TIM:

      "Dropping thoughts" is an interesting subject line. Who is there to
      drop thoughts? "I" am a thought, so "I" cannot drop thoughts. "I"
      can really do nothing, bound as I am by my "I-ness."

      It seems that something must be seen or understood, and thoughts will
      just drop, without effort. Any effort is of course made by "me."

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      XAN:

      Sky is Heart.
      By entering the cave one discovers ....

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      XAN quotes RAMANA:

      "Everything is the Self. There is nothing but that. So the Heart
      must be said to be the entire body of ourselves and of the entire universe,
      conceived as 'I'. But to help the prastiser we have to indicate a definite
      part of the Universe, or of the Body. So this Heart is pointed out as the
      seat of the Self. But in truth we are everywhere, we are all that is and
      there is nothing else."

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      MARCIA shares more she has read about "Idiots":

      "The "Enlightened Idiot" corresponds with the "know-it-all" -
      someone who thinks that they have it all figured out (and, in
      fact, they may). It is an extremely difficult task to "descend way
      back to Ordinary Idiot" (an Ordinary Idiot is like an unspoiled
      child) - to give up that which makes him "special", all the accrued
      knowledge, the thousand "insights", the associations that set him
      apart from everyone else. Like asking Einstein to teach addition
      and subtraction to a first grade class.

      An "Idiot" is someone who is working on himself, yet his type
      determines how his efforts manifest - how he can get stuck at a
      given level/place - identified with a certain pattern of behavior."

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      JAN:

      when translating some of chief Tuiavi's lectures from
      German into English I was reminded of how severe the "thinking-disease" has
      become. Not to mention how many times I had to hear "mind" or "spirit"
      often is associated with thinking... a common mistake made by those
      unfamiliar with the basics of meditation. But probably it is easier to
      teach pigeons reading than it is convincing people that the ongoing
      thinking is not "normal" but a disease... Who does consciously know that
      enjoying to the full and thinking are mutually exclusive?:)

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      GENE offers a new site.....below is only a snippet
      of what can be read in its enirety at the site indicated:


      _Solipsism_ from 'Ask Grandpa'

      <http://home.swipnet.se/~w-18693/>

      "Dear reader, do you really exist? Do I? What do we really know? Next
      to nothing, that's for sure. However, I will pour balm on troubled
      waters, because I have found a method in this specific wilderness.
      There are other texts here in these Ask Grandpa pages working over
      this territory, but I reckon I should write one extra under this
      heading, to attract attention if for no other reason, because this
      word, "solipsism", does attract attention, but for the wrong reasons
      mostly......................"

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      GENE:

      ....... One is wise to resist the
      temptation of 'change for the better'; the illusory allure of
      'advancement' is the goad which is effective only for those who see
      themselves as divorced from the essence.

      Being willing to stand in place (abide) the buffeting winds of
      apparent change; being willing to observe without reacting; these are
      the hallmarks of one who is in place after the crowd has panicked and
      fled to their sacred hidey-holes.

      The vaunted and agonized ideals of the seeker, are the very bed of
      coals over which the seeker turns, spitted upon misplaced ambition.
      Basted by denial, and eventually served to the moon upon a bed of
      crisp cosmic laughter, the best one can hope for in this case is a
      generous 'tip'.

      Hi, I will be your waitperson tonight... my name is

      ==Gene Poole==
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