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Wed./April 5

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  • umbada@ns.sympatico.ca
    JAMES MORGAN Imagine the idea that the ego never actually fully separated from God. Imagine you are not bad for the thoughts you think. Imagine not condemming
    Message 1 of 1 , Apr 7, 2000
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      JAMES MORGAN

      Imagine the idea that the ego never actually fully separated
      from God.
      Imagine you are not bad for the thoughts you think.
      Imagine not condemming yourself for ANY thought you have
      EVER thought.

      ***

      Isn't real success when we have no notion of success left -
      as if there could be something that was 'not-success'.

      Nondualism knows of no opposite.

      And whilst we think the opposites are real we will feel the
      need for techniques.

      There is nowhere to go.

      And until you get there use all the techniques you like.
      'You' are the problem.
      ______________________________________________________

      DAN BERKOW

      There is no difference whatsoever between the one who is
      seeking and that which is being sought.
      Therefore, the perceived difference is the result of a
      belief that such a difference could exist.
      The belief that one lacks, that one is insufficient, arises
      from interpretation of experience, particularly experiences
      of vulnerability.

      Only when one does not attempt to deny vulnerability, nor
      flee limitation, nor attach to security, nor eliminate all
      threats to vulnerability, will one be able to "undo" the
      inferences that led to the belief in oneself as lacking, as
      needing something from "outside", as being threatened from
      "outside".
      Undoing inferences and beliefs is the Way, not developing
      new, improved inferences and beliefs. Such beliefs are
      related to self-image, interpretations resulting from
      (sometimes dire) bodily experience, images generated from
      social interaction -- all of these "cement" the position of
      the insecure and threatened self. Projection is the result
      of inference, and inference is the result of solidifying a
      position.
      No inference, no solidification of position = undoing.


      _________________________________________________________________

      Gene:
      Sitting quietly in meditative communion I assume no
      difficulty in conveying or understanding; I am that which
      interpenetrates.

      Ed:
      Sitting quietly, the language barrier is resolved.
      ________________________________________________________________

      NEO

      As I have said before I am not enlightened. There is no
      reality in darkness, it is only the absence of light. For me
      it also seems to be a gradual process.

      I am not here to try to bring about someone else's
      enlightenment. I am not here as a guru or teacher. IMO the
      most important activity or non activity is to bring about my
      enlightenment first. It would then put this body in a much
      more powerful position to help others. My concern is the
      unenlightened being who tries to change another may do more
      harm than good.

      My technique: to bring about peace within by trying not to
      attack others and forgive others that appear to have
      attacked me. To practice truth or honesty both within
      myself and with others. To treat everything as sacred and
      avoid profane language. To love all I see and see
      everything as myself. To avoid attachment to anything
      within or without. To spend long periods in silence where
      some internal transformation seems to occur.
      ____________________________________________________________________


      NEO: I was remembering the attack-fear-anger-attack cycle
      which we see here everyday. I had forgotten that an attack
      is a call for love. Thank you for reminding me. I just do
      not think I have that much love to meet the needs of the
      list right now, perhaps you do, or perhaps if we all
      combined our love it would meet the needs of the list.

      XAN: This is the stupidest of the many things you have said.
      You think that love is dolled out in limited quanities
      depending on the time and the person? Love is a substance,
      and so can be subtracted from, added to by someone else's
      love quota?
      So you are content with your meager amounts of love? At
      least you were honest enough to admit you are not the
      all-loving guy you portrayed yourself as previously. So you
      have no desire to uncover the totally and absolutely
      unlimited love which you are and all are, even when they are
      attacking, denying, hypocriting etc. etc.

      Here it is again: Love itself knows no limits, is only
      hidden by our beliefs, ideas and false identity. You want
      to know what Love really is? Give up all that stuff.
      _________________________________________________________________

      KRISTI SHELLONER

      Dear Neo:

      Memory: Love is not Work, Love is un-work......or something
      like that.
      Ludicrous, because I am full of attack, judgement,
      pettiness, all kinds of stuff...and then I have a clear
      moment.....and I see that stuff for what it is and
      isn't...and then a button...and then the merry-go-round
      again......so I'm up for untrying again.....I know I don't
      know anything, except sometimes, and then I find what I did
      know, doesn't matter anyway.......and around and around.

      Today is a beautiful day. I'm going to struggle out of my
      morning fog and watch all the ideas I think I know surface
      and marvel at how meaningless they are...and then I'll hold
      on to one tight, not even realizing it, and I'll watch
      that...and then, maybe, I'll be sitting at the computer and
      I'll notice my daughter in the yard kicking a national
      geographic globe ball over the raspberry bushes, the dog
      following her, his white tipped tail waving in the wind like
      sume surrender flag, and I'll see surrender, as she abandons
      herself to the ball and the hillside, and I'll get it for a
      second, and then i'll hold onto that, and then, and
      then......as Winnie the Pooh says: and so it goes. Have a
      wonderful day, Neo.

      Love, Kristi

      ______________________________________________________________

      HANS

      Everybody, i am having such great fun on this list. i
      really enjoy it.
      becoming enlightened without even noticing it.

      ***

      no problem with feelings/nofeelings/thought/trying/untrying
      if we do not attach, if we do not feed energy, if we do not
      give attention, but instead we let go *gently !*. Of
      course, it does not always work this simple, but when we
      become aware that we are clinging, then we *gently !* try to
      detach until our brain, if ever, understands its own process
      and lets go naturally and without effort. That's why we
      should not try to hard to understand because this can become
      it's own obstacle. We take notice and let go. The brain or
      whatever mechanisme it is will do it's job beyond our
      control.

      Emotions, thoughts, feelings flowing through, so how can one
      say, you are this or you are that ? There is no one there.
      We are all this and all that but at the same time neither
      this nor that. The Truth has no place to stay.

      It IS. How else can it be ? Who says so ? No idea. Just
      a thought. 2 years ago i was hospitalized with an immense
      and almost unbearable pressure in my head. (Of course
      everything was examined, nothing was found) I had no force
      anymore, it was all gone. I was all skin bones and i
      started smoking again like hell. I was not able to take
      anything in. Everything was just too much. I had one major
      panic attack. But the general feeling was one of being
      totally lost and out of control and an immense restlesness
      almost beyond imagination. I could not sleep, not even with
      many sleeping tablets. It was just impossible due to this
      incredible pressure and restlesness. I took oxazepam and
      some other pills but nothing was up to it really. But a
      message kept popping up in my head over and over again,
      louder and louder: LET GO.

      Just by typing it, this brings tears to my eyes, because i
      know this is A MAJOR ISSUE for me. Isn't it a miracle that
      a message is delivered to you in such a mysterious way ?
      And i understood it loud and clear. So, little by little,
      this pressure diminished until it was bearable. The
      restlesness is totally gone. The pressure is still there,
      more or less, and it seems to react to awareness, but i am
      not really making any link because i simply do not know what
      it is. To be continued :) -> who knows, nothing is sure.

      __________________________________________________________________

      MARK OTTER

      I guess my take is the self fears nonexistence, and when one
      gets close to taking self off the thrown of "importance",
      those survival instincts well up. In fact, I think the self
      is the fear, and vice versa. My observations suggest that
      the original fear (self) is actually made of love (energy),
      which is such a lovely surprise to me that I'm still
      exploring it. I wonder what comes next, and that causes
      fear (self) to arise again, and the only thing that seems to
      dispell it is letting the love bloom again. The fear is
      pretty resilient, which I have to respect. It's also a
      trickster, with many disguises. I think the true guise is
      that love stuff though. I try to say it but it never sounds
      quite right. Let someone else say it then....

      This short excerpt is from Hilda Charlton at
      http://www.hildacharlton.com/The%20Real%20You.htm

      "Let's say you're in the consciousness of God, and then you
      get petty and complain, "That person said this about me."
      Whew! You're right out again, out of the Garden of Eden.
      So you say, "Oh no. I'm out again."
      Nothing doing! Cut! Cut that thought. Cut! And back in
      you go, into the consciousness of God, and say, "That person
      must've had a bad time to be so mean. I will send that
      person unconditional love." It's as simple as that, kids.
      We have to keep unconditional love all the time. We may
      fall out of the Garden of Eden, but we have to walk back in
      fast. As quickly as the negative thought comes, say, "Cut."
      Go back with a good thought, and you're in the consciousness
      of God again. You're in attunement and you're in safety, no
      matter what happens around you. You understand that?"

      This is so right on, IMO. The fear steps in and wants to
      defend me, and I respond by consciously choosing love and
      reminding myself that I don't need protection. I don't mind
      the game so much anymore, so it's getting easier. Perhaps
      God will grace me soon by taking the last of the fear away.
      I'd like that.
      _____________________________________________________________

      MARY SALEGUI

      Some of Nisargadatta's statements came close to some of the
      concepts of ACIM ; He said that the I Am began all the
      "mischief" (this universe). "The crime was that this
      consciousness started feeling conscious, the mischief
      started" (from Prior to Consciousness) This part gets me:
      "You are unreal - you know that you are -- that is also
      unreal. This sense of presence is an untruth; it is like a
      dream." He also said, "All this process of communication,
      expounding,etc., will go on so long as this conscious
      presence is available, and all this merely to satisfy the
      concept "I Am," and you, the Absolute, are not the primary
      concept "I Am."

      The Course says that to the Son of God "came a tiny mad idea
      at which he forgot to laugh". I call this "tiny mad idea"
      I Amness. That's the first split from the Source , this
      sense of awareness of oneself.

      Nisargadatta: This touch of "I Amness" is in each being;
      this beingness has that touch of love for the Absolute and
      it is a representation of the Absolute. When you got
      yourself separated from the Absolute with this identity "I
      Am," you felt fragmented, isolated, and that is why your
      demands started. In the Absolute there are no needs. Only
      the Absolute prevails. ...But this "I Amness" is not just a
      small principle, that itself is the mula-maya, the primary
      illusion..." (Prior to Consciousness)

      ____________________________________________________________________

      MELODY QUOTES OSHO

      Osho:

      "Nothingness brings freedom. Freedom from the self is the
      ultimate freedom. There is no freedom higher than that.
      Nothingness is freedom. And it is not anguish, as Jean-Paul
      Sartre says, and it is not trembling, as Kierkegaard says.
      It is benediction, it is the ultimate bliss. It is not
      trembling because there is nobody to tremble.

      Meditation prepares you for that, because as you enter into
      meditation you find less and less of yourself every day. And
      the less you find yourself, in the same proportion grow your
      blessings, your benediction, your blissfulness. Slowly,
      slowly, you learn the mathematics of the inner world - that
      the more you are, the more in hell; the less you are, the
      more in heaven. The day you are not, it is nirvana. The
      ultimate home has arrived. You have come full circle, you
      have become a child again. There is not self any more.

      Remember, freedom does not mean the freedom "of the self".
      Freedom means: freedom "from the self". To Sartre it means
      'freedom of the self'. That's why it feels like a
      condemnation; the self remains. It becomes free, but it
      remains - and that's why there is fear."
      ___________________________________________________________________

      MARK: I've been thinking about neo's suggestion that trying
      to teach about enlightenment before achieving it can do more
      harm than good.

      JAN B:That's why the Buddha, at the end of his "career",
      said "be a light onto yourself". Man's real nature can be
      recognized unconditionally and realization (no "I") can be a
      matter of pure love. No more knowledge required... let
      alone reasoning and arguing...

      MARK: I wonder if a reasonable analogy is trying to raise
      children before becoming completely adult?

      JAN B: Rosicrucians are rather specific about it: no greater
      joy (for the newborn too) than growing up with awakened
      parents. The Buddha gave the wording "when nirvana with
      substratum is realized, one has the choice to rejoice one's
      feelings".

      MARK: I don't have children, at least partly because I
      haven't felt adult enough to take on that responsibility.
      When is someone sufficiently adult to try to teach children
      about becoming adults?

      JAN B:Awakening is like having reserved a ticket to lasting
      happiness. Only this qualifies to teach and to raise
      children

      ______________________________________________________________________

      jody, it is PAST. Why do you keep dragging it along with
      you?

      love xan

      Because I'm a lousy sonofabitch that has to have the last
      word.

      (editor's note: actually, jody, it's the sponsor...)
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