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Tues./April 4, 2000

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  • umbada@ns.sympatico.ca
    Easy is right. Begin right And you are easy. Continue easy and you are right. The right way to go easy Is to forget the right way And forget that the going is
    Message 1 of 1 , Apr 6, 2000
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      "Easy is right. Begin right
      And you are easy.
      Continue easy and you are right.
      The right way to go easy
      Is to forget the right way
      And forget that the going is easy."

      Chuang-Tzu (contributed by Andrew Macnab)


      "Is it wonderful that I should be immortal? As everyone is
      I know it is wonderful, but my eyesight is equally
      wonderful, and how I was conceived in my mother's womb is
      equally wonderful; and passed from a babe, in the creeping
      trance of a couple of summers and winters, to articulate and
      walk - all this is equally wonderful.

      "And that my soul embraces you this hour, and we affect each
      other without seeing each other, and never perhaps to see
      each other, is every bit as wonderful. And that I can think
      such thoughts as these is just as wonderful; and that I can
      remind you, and you think them and know them to be true is
      equally wonderful."

      --Walt Whitman


      I am enlightened...

      is a statement of awareness resting on awareness...
      consciousness of consciousness...
      a proclamation of the universality of peace and freedom.

      It is a proclamation of nondual consciousness as

      Say it loud and clear, without doubt, wholeheartedly, it is

      DAN BERKOW, Ph.D.

      we are talking about the ways that projection works. Jung
      warned people that when they think they are pure and free
      (i.e., positioning as "innocent"), that there is fertile
      ground for the projected 'shadow'.
      It goes back to aphorisms found in the West as well as the
      East, e.g., 'the unexamined life is not worth living', 'who
      will protect us from the protectors?', and, of course, 'know

      Indeed, 'ego' works very well as a projected 'cause' of
      suffering, 'something' we can form groups to get rid of, a
      common enemy.

      You're right that the concept 'ego' can be used to
      perpetuate endless seeking. Also, the belief in states of
      'egolessness' also can perpetuate subtle ego-inflation.
      With 'subtle states' comes possible 'subtle projection', and
      along with this, as Jung warned, the danger of
      ego-inflation. With ego-inflation comes assumptions of
      infallibility, one's judgments as constituting reality
      (particularly if one is 'beyond evaluating' one's judgments
      will be taken as reality), nameless forces of ignorance
      (e.g., people with ego's 'out there') working against the
      holy truth of one's self.

      Projection seems to operate because we need a reality to
      call our own, because we need to know ourselves against
      something else, because we position the known against the
      unknown, and identify with something, e.g., a belief we are
      enlightened, a belief that others are enlightened, etc.

      By the way, since I've mentioned Jung here, I want to
      clarify something.
      Jung believed there always must be an ego involved in human
      This belief itself becomes an identification, a way to
      maintain a fixed reality.
      Neither maintaining a fixed reality, nor having no reality,
      simply being reality as it stimultaneously changes and
      remains as is -- this is the indescribable Way. To be
      'centerless' is to be everywhere and nowhere simultaneously
      - neither against ego, lacking an ego, nor with an ego.


      GENE: Indeed. If we make one part 'real', all other parts
      automatically become 'real' also. Just beware that one
      first step, of making anything 'real', or of making anything
      'unreal'; thus is born 'duality'.

      DAN: Thanks for expressing wisdom clearly.
      I made this real by making something else less real or
      I made myself incomplete by believing there is some other
      completeness that has been lost, or is to be gained.
      Once I knew myself as incomplete, I projected everything
      that makes me feel diminished.
      I projected everything that threatens this partial, false
      self - including "enlightenment" - which would fix me if I
      could get it, but which I can't handle because I'm so
      In fact, I projected this world of defined things, because
      my limited self fears ambiguity, uncertainty, and
      definitionlessness. My thinking and language I project at
      the same time I try to own - I want what I can't have - a
      linear, static reality to save me from discontinuous flux.

      Namaste, a deep bow to wisdom,


      I think it's fear itself afraid for its existence, but I
      don't really know. It comes in waves when I yawn, and I
      catch myself running, stop and turn to embrace it. It pops
      up when buttons are pushed, and try to notice it and ask if
      it serves me. It wonders when I break into spontaneous
      unprovoked hysterical laughter/crying if I'm going mad and
      it stops me at the edge and says "It's too high, we might
      fall". I think in spite of it, I'm falling, taking it with
      me? I don't know, but it's definitely not boring. It's
      fear, but I trust it. Crazy, huh?


      If you can see something in someone else clearly there is a
      high degree that you have something similar in yourself.
      The degree to which you are not attached to that something
      is the degree to which you can point it out without blame or
      violence to the other guy. If it is an unacknowledged part
      of your psyche then most likely you will you will be telling
      the other guy how bad they are in one way or another.



      People get real messed up around this one - like they start
      thinking that even to *see* anger in another means you are
      angry...... Not so. We can see other's pain - without
      being attached or identified with it.....

      As to whether you tell the other person what you see....well
      my rule of thumb is to not have a rule of thumb......



      I imagined what an infant's expression would be like and
      tried it... it feels light and happy and watching and
      accepting and trusting and open and joyful... works for

      ...all the best things are available :-)


      According to Gangaji, her teacher Papaji traveled all over
      India to find an Enlightened teacher. He found many that
      said they were and who turned out not to be. His search
      stopped when he found Ramana. A number of years ago I
      started a similar search in N. America. Although I met a
      number of wise teachers, none appeared, to me, to be
      enlightened. So when a member here said they were, I needed
      to check it out.


      Don't let anyone fool you, there are not any enlightened
      ones here.


      Again, there are not any here. From my observations it is a
      very hard road to travel but the rewards are beyond


      ROTFL... Prove you are familiar with those rewards -
      otherwise you are but fantasizing or parroting :)

      GREG GOODE, Ph.D.

      Is part of your definition of "enlightened one" that such a
      one "does not subscribe to Internet lists"?


      Neo attacks authority. Yet, the result of this attack
      ultimately promotes Neo as the authority.

      A brilliant red sign flashes and a deafening electronic
      buzzer blares:

      How do you know, Neo, that there are no enlightened ones
      here? All of us should accept you as an authority on this
      question? Please supply the grand evidence supporting your
      conclusion, something more substantial than egoic delusion,

      You are very entertaining, Neo. You chase you own tail and
      invite us to join in your egoic celebration of self.


      who knows whether anybody on this list is enlightened?
      who the hell cares?
      why are we spinning our wheels about it?
      as for so called "enlightened ones" only zen roshis and
      gurus and people like that there are allowed to slap people
      around--and only their followers who signed on board.....
      and i personally doubt their enlightenment too..


      NEO: According to Gangaji, her teacher Papaji traveled all
      over India to find an Enlightened teacher. He found many
      that said they were and who turned out not to be. His
      search stopped when he found Ramana.

      MELODY: Did Papaji happen to say why he searched for an
      enlightened teacher?

      Does he attribute his own enlightenment to having found an
      enlightened teacher?

      I have heard it stated here many times that only an
      enlightened being can recognize another. This seems to me
      to be nonsense, although I find the term 'enlightened being'
      a rather silly one.

      I know Stillness and Presence when it touches 'me'.
      I wonder if this is what Papaji meant, as well?

      XAN: Melody, I'm glad you asked.
      These are excerpts from Papaji's biography, written before
      his death, with his supervision, and called, Nothing Ever

      When Papaji was 6 years old he had a spontaneous event of
      samadhi which lasted for 2 days, in which he was "consumed
      and engulfed by an experience that made me so peaceful and
      happy." and "was so overwhelming, it had effectively
      paralyzed my ability to respond to any external stimuli."

      Years passed, he attended school and served in the Indian
      army but, "I wanted God, and I wanted Him more than anything
      else in the world. I also wanted to find a real Guru who
      could help me in my search."
      Throughout his 20's he visited most of the saints and swamis
      he heard about in India, asking each of them ,"Have you seen
      God? and if you have, can you show me God?"

      each of these would laugh at him or tell him to stay with
      them or do some practice. "They would say, 'You can't see
      God without meditating on Him for some time.' I wasn't
      satisfied with this answer. I thought 'God is like the
      sun. I don't need practice to see Him. I just need someone
      who can point my head in the right direction, or someone who
      can remove the cateract from my eyes so that He becomes
      immediately becomes apparent to me. My God is all love, all
      grace, all majesty. Why should He hide Himself from me?'"

      There is an unusual story of how he came learn of Ramana and
      to meet him in l944, which is too long to be told here. At
      first meeting he asked his two questions - Have you seen
      God? and Can you show me God? "Ramana answered, 'No, I
      cannot show you God because God is not an object to be
      seen. God is the subject.
      He is the seer. Don't concern yourself with objects that
      can be seen. Find out who the seer is.' He also added, 'You
      alone are God.'"

      Papaji described himself as hard headed and he did not like
      this answer, but as Ramana gazed at him he had an exerience
      of` shakti energy and "...became aware of the spiritual
      Heart, the source and support of all that exists. Within
      the Heart I saw or felt something like a closed bud. With
      the Maharashi looking at me, and with myself in a state of
      inner silence ... the Heart opened and bloomed."

      Still with a critical and mistrusting mind, Papaji continued
      the intense spiritual practices he had been doing. He
      returned to Ramana a few times in the next months to ask
      specific questions about his spiritual progress.

      On one of these occasions, "Then he looked at me intently.
      I could feel that my whole body and mind and being washed
      with waves of purity. They were being washed by his silent
      gaze. I could feel him looking into my Heart. ... A
      process of transformation was going on ... Then, suddenly,
      I understood. I knew that this man who had spoken to me
      was, in reality, what I already was, what I had always
      There was a sudden impact of recognition as I became aware
      of the Self.
      ... I knew, unerringly, that this was the same state of
      peace and happiness that I had been emersed in as a
      six-year-old boy ... I knew that my spiritual quest had
      definitely ended, but the source of that knowledge will
      always remain indescribable."



      What happens when we try to understand something. We tend
      to get lost in the process of understanding. One thought
      trying to understand another. A never ending process. I
      have been thinking about the issues in question for over
      about 30 years and nothing has been solved. NOT A THING ! I
      repeat NOT A THING. That means that i am either very stupid
      or i have been focussing on the wrong thing. I bet it's the
      latter. (i know, the one does not exclude the other :)

      The question seems to be WHO (subject) is trying to
      understand rather than WHAT (object) is tried to be

      WHO seems to be silence, WHAT seems to be noise, and we are
      used to noise. So we identify with the noise. We seem to be
      addicted to it. From the day we are born, everything seems
      to be focussed on the object and not many seem to care about
      the WHO. So we are pushed in what seemingly is the wrong

      Another obstacle seems to be that the WHO can not be known
      or seen. AND WE WANT TO KNOW. You can look with your eyes
      (or rather your eyes are looking) but you can not see your
      eyes (haha i can see them in the mirror haha). Whatever you
      think about your eyes, your eyes are simply your eyes and
      there is no need at all to think about them. There's no
      effort needed.

      We seem to trust our minds and go on reasoning forever and
      ever. But whatever enters into our brain becomes a concept,
      an image or whatever, but it can not be or become reality.
      It is not possible to think about reality. So the best thing
      to do seems to be to totally ignore all concepts, images or
      whatever floats around in our brains and get in touch with
      the WHO. Maybe we think about it but do we actually do it
      ? I wonder. Know what is not YOU. What remains is YOU.
      Nothing to think about.

      I will think about it


      there is no universal formula for realization. Even the
      best minds studying long years find that there is no
      substitute for the grace that befalls s/he who has
      surrendered all concepts of self, spirit, and universe.


      Thoughts emerging from Awareness seem ambiguous when
      explained with words spoken in duality.

      Is it possible that thoughts from Awareness can be clearly
      conveyed while typing and editing on the computer?

      Perhaps sitting quietly in meditative communion thoughts may
      be clearly conveyed and interpenetration may occur.


      definition of 'ego' comes from 'depth psychology', and from
      'transpersonal psychology'.

      I find it endlessly amusing, that 'new-agers' have discarded
      the notion of 'satan', but have found a new universal
      scapegoat; the almighty 'ego', the master trickster, the
      boogyman in the closet, in the basement, and under the bed;
      the 'whipping boy' of the mind, upon which endless heaps of
      blame get displaced, and to which so many fingers point, as
      the 'cause' of misery, delusion, and fear. Tch, tch.

      It seems that as long as there is suffering, that the
      sufferer will look to a 'foreign agency' to blame, and also
      as a source of help; first identify the 'cause' of the
      suffering and then 'eliminate' it.

      It is important to recognize, that as long as there is
      suffering, there will be blame, and the need to be 'saved'
      from that which is blamed. It seems that humans just cannot
      endure self-resonsibility; it seems that there must always
      be a scapegoat. I am saddened that so many otherwise
      seemingly intelligent people fall for this racket.

      Here is the central racket; this is how it works; this is
      very slippery, try to catch it.

      Denial requires hiding things from oneself; the first thing
      to hide, is the fact of denial itself. To aid in the task
      of hiding the fact of denial, one needs to fabricate a
      'cause' of the trouble that denial brings, that cause being
      of course, something other than denial itself. So 'in order
      to' have a haven from the troubles caused by denial, one
      must invent (or conspire in the invention of) a plausible
      cause of the troubles (suffering) that denial brings. It
      used to be 'satan' (I guess it still is, in certain
      circles), but now it is 'ego'. Woe unto one who does not
      subscribe to the 'party line' that 'ego' is a cause of

      Phase two: To have an 'excuse' for the troubles brought
      about by denial is only the first part of this racket; the
      next phase it to make it virtually _impossible_ to eliminate
      'ego', thus tacitly giving permission for the games of
      denial to go on forever. How is this trick accomplished?
      Here is how:

      To make 'ego' impossible to get rid of, and to thus give
      oneself permission to be 'dysfunctional' forever, all one
      has to do, is to assign the quality of 'egolessness' to the
      highest, mightiest, and holiest of persons, both dead and
      living. That is all there is to it!

      "Gee, I can never be egoless... look at what happened to
      Ghandi, to Jesus, even to mother Teressa! I cannot ever
      hope to reach those exalted heights... I guess I will be a
      _seeker_ forever! Hmmm...
      maybe I'd better join the SEEKER'S UNION! Maybe I should
      seek NEW DIRECTIONS, to find UNITY with a SOCIETY OF
      FRIENDS... maybe I should become a VEGETARIAN, or better
      yet, a BREATHAiRIAN! It should be OBVIOUS that the greater
      the degree of PURITY, the lesser degree of EGO will remain!
      Ego is the GREAT IMPURITY of the human Being!"

      "Take my ego... PLEASE!"


      Jung also warned: "Do not identify with an ARCHETYPE". The
      archetypes are 'forms' which dwell in the 'collective
      unconscious', which in their interactions, literally _enact_
      (yes, as in stage-drama) out our exterior lives, moment to
      moment. <snip>

      ANDREW MACDONALD: Someone I see regularly engages wonderful
      archetypal qualities when I'm in her presence, a grounded
      Buddha, a Wise Fool, a King. . . characters which have
      enriched my days and hers. The living quality, vibrancy and
      worthiness of these characters is evident and I don't
      imagine Gene or Jung (or Cheech and Chong for that matter)
      not valuing them. My friend certainly "identifies" with
      these guys when they're there, recognizes them as parts of

      Why not identify with an archetype - not be it instead of
      "you" or anything, but enjoy and open to its qualities?

      Does anyone have any juice for this?

      JODY: As a personality, I'm a Jungian nightmare. I'm
      identified with the Great Mother archetype in the form of
      the Hindu goddess Kali, to the point where I even act it out
      in drag. This would also be considered anima possession by

      Fortunately, my Jungian therapist knows that this is exactly
      where "I" need to be, this being part of my role to play in
      the Lila this life.

      However, that's not to say that I'd *ever* recommend it to
      anyone else. There's something quite insane about it, and
      it can get kind of scary too.

      It was sort of like being blasted by a psychic nuke, and
      then picking up the pieces of a shattered ego.

      Thankfully, it didn't kill me. Therefore I am stronger.
      This is the way Ma has worked in my life.

      Jai Ma Kali Dakshineswari Ki Jai!


      Self-Knowledge - a short essay

      Self-knowledge does not consist of knowing what you are.
      What you are, you are already. Rather, it consists of
      *knowing what you are not*.
      Eliminating self-delusion clears the way for *what you are*
      to manifest.

      In other words, if you know what you are not, you are free
      to *be what you are*.

      There is no way to state what you are in positive terms,
      except perhaps as simple Being: "I Am." The fact that you
      *are* is obvious. What you are cannot be known - you can
      only *be it*. And until all mental confusion is undone,
      until you know what you are not, you cannot really be what
      you are (please excuse the implied paradox). You are caught
      in a mental trap, a trap of delusive ideas about yourself.

      There can be no quality of genuineness in life until you
      know all that you are not. This process of elimination,
      often termed "discrimination" or "self-enquiry" (sanskrit:
      viveka) clears the way for vidya (often translated as
      "knowledge," but not really translatable into English) to
      manifest. It is the spiritual practice recommended by both
      Ramana Maharshi and Nisargadatta Maharaj, in the form of the
      question "Who am I?" RM states that it is best to put the
      question only once, and then begin to enquire. NM states
      that to turn the focus of attention to the "I AM," the pure
      and simple state of being, is also a method of enquiry. The
      discovery is that the question "Who am I?" has no answer
      except in the negative. One can *know* only what one is
      not... and this knowledge is imperative. What one knows,
      one is free of. When you know what you are not, you are
      free of what you are not... and what remains is simply what
      you are.

      At the same time, to constantly dwell on the temporality and
      impermanence of all perceivables and conceivables is
      vairagya (dispassion). Viveka and vairagya go
      hand-in-hand. When the body, the mind and the world are
      known deeply to be temporal, impermanent, momentary and
      dreamlike, there is no longer any need to either do or not
      do anything. In other words, there is (at first) freedom
      from the compulsion to satisfy desires, and finally freedom
      from desire itself. The deeper the realization of
      impermanence goes, the more it can be seen that there is
      nothing to build, nothing to do, nowhere to go. Nothing
      lasts. The death of the body/mind is an absolute
      guarantee. Without viveka, this could result in a
      nihilistic viewpoint, but when combined with viveka, it can
      easily result in what is often called self-realization or
      enlightenment (a couple of really lousy terms that mean
      something different to everyone).

      To conclude, there is really nothing that can be known about
      oneself. The reality of what we are is mystery beyond
      mystery to the mind. The mind can only progressively
      eliminate confusion and incorrect views, until it becomes
      utterly still in complete bafflement, and the mind is at
      last transcended.

      What is it that transcends the mind? How could the mind
      possibly know?

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