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HIGHLIGHTS of Friday March 31

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  • Gloria Lee
    This highlights is not a representative sample of the day s postings. It is my perhaps mistaken impression that many subscribe to the highlights in order to be
    Message 1 of 1 , Apr 1, 2000
      This highlights is not a representative sample of the day's postings. It is my
      perhaps mistaken impression that many subscribe to the highlights in order to be
      spared the sort of personality attack discussions which are the subject of the
      majority of today's posts. While many perhaps worthwhile issues were raised as
      well in those posts, I find it impossible to select from the over 115 posts any
      representation fair to both , so have chosen to omit all those that prefer one
      side over the other. If anyone feels they are missing something by this, please
      read the archives. Posts which self reflect or discuss mainly the author's
      preferences for dealing with conflict are included. If anyone wants my editor
      job, they are welcome to it. The first quotes pretty much sum up my thoughts
      that as editor here you get to invent your own job description.


      _______, i would like to agree but i can't because i do not want to take sides
      :) I would say no problem to take sides as long as you are aware that you
      do. IMO, a person takes sides because he is either in love or terrified. i
      won't tell you which is my case.

      terribly in love


      Ah Hans,
      Editing is so useful, and also potentially so entrapping. I edit myself all the
      time, which is good because otherwise, I would have been jailed, possibly
      executed long ago. (civilization relies on editors.) But, I also see that when
      the editor becomes a thug, I get beat up unecessarily by my self. I have
      certainly felt "self-conscious", even "self-hating". Yuck.

      It seems to me (who?) that we edit our thoughts, but are not the thoughts, so
      you are neither the unedited version nor the edited version. Identifying with
      the thoughts is a painful trap. Both the edited version and the unedited
      version are just thoughts, which you either agree with or disagree with.
      Presumably, you agree with the edited version, and disagree with the bits you
      edited out, but I question that as well. I really do think that I float these
      posts not so much for the list, but for myself, to test whether or not I agree
      with my editor (which I think also is not ME.) So, I too am still wondering
      who I am... (Wondering through samsara)

      Love, Mark

      MARK and DAN

      Thank you Dan, for this post:

      Dan: How do you understand the reality that people
      sometimes commit suicide after prolonged cruel taunting
      and negative personalized characterizations?

      Your approach suggests that this is the fault of
      the one committing suicide, with no shared
      responsibility. Your approach suggests
      to me relative unconcern with vulnerabilities.

      This was helpful to me in placing my recent post in perspective. I
      still wish to use the stuff consciously to reduce the harm I do to
      myself by unconstrained use of filters and hooks, but I definitely agree
      that I also want to cultivate in myself (pretty self centered aren't I?)
      a kind regard for others and the vulnerabilities that they may have. I
      have compassion for them and therefore wish to help them deconstruct
      their filters (assuming, of course that this is really a beneficial
      thing to do...), but believe that this may be done gently by helping
      them to see the effects of those filters. There is plenty of stuff on
      the planet already without my adding to it. No need to push someone's
      buttons to point them out, button pushing is an inevitable part of life,
      so why not simply explore and share my understanding of the mechanics
      of buttons, and leave it up to the rest of the world to do the pushing?
      Yes. Thanks again.

      Love, Mark

      Mark, thanks for your comments about projection.
      To say that people are only harmed if they allow
      harm disregards that people can be hurt by
      negative characterizations of themselves projected
      by someone they believe to have insight or power.
      Yes, ultimately, that person doesn't have that power.
      But will such words facilitate this kind of ultimate learning
      for the one negatively characterized, particularly when it's
      repeated, particularly by more than one person?
      To me that's the question. What facilitates learning;
      when is enough, enough; when do you listen to someone
      saying "these words have hurt"?

      Drawing a distinction between words and a flamethrower
      is somewhat true, yet words have a degree of power,
      otherwise why do we use them; thus, words can heal,
      words can express, words can encourage, words can wound.

      Courtesy allows words to be followed without having to wade
      through lots of projected nonsense. At least
      that's how it is for me.

      I'm glad you are finding ways to learn from everything.
      I agree, this kind of learning is available.

      I will extend compassion as best as I can, as that is
      what works for me in return.

      Blessed be,

      MARK and HANS

      Mark wrote :
      "And Gurdjieff said that to get out of prison, first you must realize you
      are in prison.

      (you say potato, I say potato - isn't it lovely that there are so many
      ways to say the same thing?)

      Keep on truckin', Hans!"

      Hey Mark, how do you know that i'm in the trucking business ? (I really am,
      sort of).
      Osho said that to get out of this prison you simply have to realize that you
      aren't in it. Isn't that beautiful. Looks like a contradiction.

      I don't know anything, and there is a madman who does my typing for me.
      There is a Gurdjieff story I like. One of the fellows in the community
      was a real pain in the butt, and everyone used to complain about him.
      One time, this fellow left the community, much to the relief of
      everyone, but Gurdjieff went after him and convinced him to come back (I
      think he paid him to do so.) Gurdjieff saw the agitation as being
      helpful in waking the rest of the community up. There is a similar
      story in the Tibetan Buddhism repertoire. I forget who it was who was
      moving to Tibet to spread the dharma, but the one who did so had heard
      that the Tibetans were very peaceful, gentle folk, and he had a Bengali
      tea boy who was a very difficult person, so he decided to take the tea
      boy with him to keep himself honest. Pema Chodron tells the story and
      adds that the Tibetans have a lovely sense of humor, so when they tell
      the story, they always add that when he got there, he learned that he
      really needn't have brought the Bengali tea boy after all.

      Love, Mark

      >Very interesting. can we effectively learn to not allow others words to harm
      us without putting up a defense mechanism ? It is often said : feel the
      pain, don't think about it. But is there feeling without thinking ? what
      happens with this pain if there is no mind activety. Does the one exist
      without the other. Or comes the pain into existence by thinking about it ?
      Very subtle business.
      It really is subtle and interesting and it's not easy to watch it and see it
      clearly, but I think it's worth the effort! I wonder if there is really any
      hurt, or is the suffering the defense mechanism itself? (I notice in my dreams
      that I fear pain, but never feel pain - all the suffering comes from the fear.
      I think waking consciousness may be similar. Pain is not suffering - the
      reaction to pain, the resisting is the suffering.) My investigations suggest
      that there are two things in the world, love and fear, and that fear is actually
      love misapplied. So someone says something hurtful to me. What happens? My
      mind asks what does this mean? Is there an insult here? Yes, I think there is,
      now let's be angry. What were the feelings I felt during this process? As I was
      looking at the words, trying to understand them, a fear arose that perhaps there
      was harm intended. Then anger arose to defend me and justify my resisting the
      fear. So I rush from fear, which I don't like (or I think I don't like...) , to
      anger, which I claim I don't like, but really prefer to fear, and watch out,
      because I can stoke that anger and retell the story to keep it alive, and really
      create a monster, and do so habitually, and only much later notice that I don't
      really like anger either. (or maybe I don't like the damage done to my body by
      storing the anger... yeah, I think that's it. The anger itself I like. A
      LOT!!!! (so watch out) (nah, let's not like anger - it's not really like, it's
      addiction.) See how often I change my mind about my attitudes towards emotions.
      It's constantly in flux. I tell you, a madman types these words!
      BUT can I actually stop and feel the fear as it arises, and short circuit the
      rest? And what would happen if I did? I'd feel fear, label it, and then what?
      Well, in my limited experience playing this game (I've practiced the anger thing
      a lot, so it's habitual, and I need to really be aware to be able to step in and
      go into the fear.) But, when I do, something surprising and wonderful happens.
      I feel compassion for myself, and this LOVE comes rushing in. The love seems to
      alter my perceptions, and in the clarity, I see that the fear is there trying to
      serve me. The fear is actually made of love, and comes to my rescue to protect
      me from harm. BUT, there isn't any harm there to protect me from, so it's
      misplaced love. (clumsy love, but dear sweet love nonetheless.) So, now can I
      learn to do this all the time, so that whenever incoming threats appear, I see
      them as love? That's my practice, and by golly, it seems to be taking a lot of
      practice. (practice makes perfect, but it takes an infinite amount of it.)

      Whew! Well, that's how it appears from here. How does it look from there?

      Love, Mark
      Mark wrote :
      "It really is subtle and interesting and it's not easy to watch it and see
      it clearly, but I think it's worth the effort! I wonder if there is really
      any hurt, or is the suffering the defense mechanism itself? (I notice in my
      dreams that I fear pain, but never feel pain - all the suffering comes from
      the fear. I think waking consciousness may be similar. Pain is not
      suffering - the reaction to pain, the resisting is the suffering.)
      Whew! Well, that's how it appears from here. How does it look from there?

      Yes, i think the pain and the defense mechanism are the same.
      Yes, i think the resistance is the suffering
      Yes, i am not different from my contents
      Yes, what i am looking at, is me. I am the looking. No escape possible !
      Yes, there is only one entity.
      This feeling of *me* is playing a game on us
      It creates a division of you and the problem
      So you can think that 1) there is you 2) there is the problem
      So you start looking to solve the problem
      Now you really got a problem
      In fact, the only thing we possibly can do is create the (imaginary)


      JERRY and DAN

      Dan: tearing someone down who didn't ask to be torn
      down is abusive.

      >Yes, if it is done with blunt instruments. Otherwise that
      >tearing down is transformative and people are asking for

      From whence comes the assumption
      that something needs to be done to someone
      so they will be transformed?

      A little respect and consideration goes
      a long way. How about appreciating
      "what is" as it is? It doesn't require anyone
      transforming it - just let one's own nonsense drop
      and let others look to their nonsense.

      From what I've seen here, trying to get others
      to drop their nonsense when one has one's own to deal with
      is futile.

      My buddy Jesus said it well, "Why do you look to take
      the splinter out of your neighbor's eye when
      you have a beam in your own eye?"
      >> Have you noticed,
      >> verbal abuse tends to breed escalated verbal abuse?
      >> Is this evidence of freedom? A game of transcendent
      >> glory? Really??
      >> Or is this random noise, a merry-go-round at a fraternity party with
      >> acid-laced kool-aid? Is it license, indulgence, game-playing, alliances,
      >> one-upsmanship?
      >It's all that. And it's all happening in an atmosphere that
      >is unlike any other kind of party. That makes it
      >experimental. It makes it our own thing. An odd creature
      >cooked in the kitchen of transformation. I don't like it at

      There's a great deal of random noise here.
      The assumption that this is transformative is
      a big assumption, from here.
      There is only the nature of "what is," just
      drop one's projections and know the unknown directly.

      Shine by your own light.
      Don't look to others' random noise
      to transform you.
      Don't assume that uninvited
      personalized attacks will add something to who you are.


      NEO offers:

      I have just received a book that I believe was recommended here. The
      author is Eckhart Tolle. The book is "The Power Of Now".

      The book, are his opinions. He has a few comments on negativity:


      Unless and until you access the consciousness frequency of presence,
      all relationships, and particularly intimate relationships, are deeply
      flawed and ultimately dysfunctional. They may seem perfect for while,
      such as when you are "in love," but invariably that apparent
      perfection gets disrupted as arguments, conflicts, dissatisfaction,
      and emotional or even physical violence occur with increasing
      frequency. It seems that most "love relationships" become love/hate
      relationships before long. Love can then turn into savage attack,
      feelings of hostility, or complete withdrawal of affection at the
      flick of a switch. This is considered normal.

      The negative side of a relationship is, of course, more easily
      recognizable as dysfunctional than the positive one. And it is also
      easier to recognize the source of negativity in your partner than to
      see it in yourself. It can manifest in many forms: possessiveness,
      jealousy, control, withdrawal and unspoken resentment, the need to be
      right, insensitivity and self absorption, emotional demands and
      manipulation, the urge to argue, criticize, judge, blame, or attack,
      anger, unconscious revenge for past pain inflicted by a parent [or
      others], rage and physical violence.

      The fact is, of course, that negativity does not work. Instead of
      attracting a desirable condition, it stops it from rising. Instead of
      dissolving an undesirable one, it keeps it in place. It's only
      "useful" function is that it strengthens the ego, and that is why the
      ego loves it.

      Negativity is totally unnatural. It is a psychic pollutant, and there
      is a deep link between the poisoning and destruction of nature and the
      vast negativity that has accumulated in the collective human psyche.



      Re: Christiana/coming unglued/synthetic timeline

      Hi Christiana... Thanks for replying, and asking about this. I love
      it when someone does that!

      > From: "Christiana P. Duranczyk"
      >Subject: Gene's recipe.. re-tuning without the paste
      > Hi, Gene.. I *see* you across this cacophanous room..
      > This was a delicious post.. worth revisiting (and a
      > question or two). (Also Andrew's very kindred one)

      > Similarly (and you just knew this was coming, yes?), the
      > entire Universe 'turns on and off' at a very high rate of
      > speed. This (usually imperceptible) activity forms the
      > 'common clock speed' which allows our individual
      > 'universes' to transparently interoperate on certain
      > dimensional levels (the levels of sense perception).

      > C:~~~~~ Are you saying that in the interstices between 'on
      > and off' we shift gears to other dimensional levels? If
      > so, are the sense perceptions the interpreting system?
      > Does Intuition factor in here?

      Gene: Here is the answer, and it is quite simple. As I said, 'we'
      edit out the blank spaces. But what is it that we are doing, if the
      _blank spaces_ are being autoedited out? Obviously, we are not
      replacing blank spaces with blank spaces; it was the blank spaces
      which are being 'gotten rid of', so there must be something _put into
      the places where the blank spaces otherwise would be_.


      We sleep at night; we indulge in 'waking activities' during the day.
      This is our habit. We fool ourselves, in that we assume that we are
      'awake' during the composite moments comprised of the sequence of
      'blank spaces'. As much as we have an accurate record of the reality
      of the 'solid universes', so we have a carefully edited 'record' of
      the reality which is built in the 'blank spaces'. This 'reality of
      the blank spaces' is NOT perceived as blank, unless one has learned
      to see it as so, by allowing the continual deletion/falling-away of
      criteria-based value-judgements and 'personal story-lines'.

      The 'reality of the blank spaces'
      is called 'the unconscious'
      by 'depth psychologists'.
      It is good
      to remember this.

      Several postings ago, I mentioned the behaviour of _confabulation_,
      in the context of chronic alcoholism. Confabulation is when we 'fill
      in the blanks' with made-up information. The reason that chronic
      alcoholics do it so well and naturally, is that it is a behaviour
      which our cultures have long condoned as a sly method of maintaining
      social cohesion. In just that way, an individual confabulates
      "reality" into the 'blank spaces' between the manifestations of the
      'solid universes', for the maintenance of "IDENTITY".


      Other than as a convenient and useful *local universe-nexus locator
      icon*, personal identity serves little purpose, beyond being our
      ticket to participate in the sanctioned rackets of our various
      cultures. This is not a small thing to say! As we see by blatant
      example here in NDS, what holds 'personality' together is not the
      body or mind; it is the deep and unconscious assumption that there is
      actually 'something' to have and to hold, and thus to lose; it is
      sometimes called 'self-image'. Self-image is a major component of


      It is possible to engineer interaction with environmental molecules
      to the purpose of maintaining identity. It is also possible to
      engineer the internal production of special molecules called
      'neurohormones' for the maintenance of identity. These special
      peptide molecules are in fact 'drugs' which we prescribe for
      ourselves, in our socially-sanctioned task of maintaining identity.
      We are vastly rewarded for this behaviour; it is this self-induced
      state of trance, which is our ticket to acceptance in our various
      cultures. It is this self-trancing behaviour, which is responsible
      for maintaining not only identity, but also our culture of
      Narcissism. Narcissism (entrancement with self-image) would not be
      possible, if as a culture, we 'could' accept the blank spaces as
      simply... blank spaces.


      It is the database of the criteria of acceptance, which is the secret
      stash of attachment-points used by our mass-culture for purposes of
      control of individuals and groups of individuals. This database
      exists as 'preferences', sometimes called 'samskara'. Our database of
      implanted values resides in the confabulated reality which bridges
      the blank spaces between manifestations of the 'solid universes. This
      database of implanted values comprises the criteria which represents
      the first, initial 'agreements' or compromises which we make as very
      young children. This database of criteria was began during our
      preverbal years, and has been successively built upon since then.

      All 'agreements' which are made after the preverbal phase of Being,
      MUST conform to the agreements/compromises made during the 'silent'
      preverbal phase of Being; to do otherwise is to lose identity.

      'Psychological compensation' is a system of patching an identity that
      _could be allowed to expire_. This patching is the very confabulation
      of the reality of trance, which stands in place of the natural
      silence of the pure emptiness of the 'blank spaces'.

      Emptiness is the natural counterpoint to form; silence is the nature
      of emptiness. How many people have an 'empty unconscious'?

      [To Be Continued!]

      ==Gene Poole==

      Preview of next installment:

      "Christiana, as you have seen here in the NDS, identity-addicts
      batter the dough of 'other' into forms determined by the Sacred
      Cookie-CutterĀ of personal preference, and then put those forms into
      the Oven of InvalidationĀ to bake... "

      Hi Gang,

      I hope those of you who are members of the sunlight@onelist.com list
      will forgive getting this twice. I just thought it perfect right now.
      Let's move forward and continue arriving, if that is what we are doing.

      the aroma of God
      begins to arrive

      look at these people
      not knowing their feet from head
      as they begin to arrive

      every soul is seeking His soul
      every soul parched with thirst
      they've all heard the voice
      of the quencher of thirst

      everyone tastes the love
      everyone tastes the milk
      anxious to know
      from where the real mother
      begins to arrive

      waiting in fever
      wondering ceaselessly
      when will that final union
      begin to arrive

      Moslems and Christians and Jews
      raising their hands to the sky
      their chanting voice in unison
      begin to arrive
      how happy is the one
      whose heart's ear
      hears that special voice
      as it begins to arrive

      clear your ears my friend
      from all impurity
      a polluted ear
      can never hear the sound
      as it begins to arrive

      if your eyes are marred
      with petty visions
      wash them with tears
      your teardrops are healers
      as they begin to arrive

      keep silence
      don't rush to finish your poem
      the finisher of the poem
      the creator of the word
      will begin to arrive

      -- Ghazal number 837
      Translation by Nader Khalili
      "Rumi, Fountain of Fire"
      Cal-Earth Press, 1995


      XAN offers several quotes and a poem:

      "Truth is alive within you right now. There is nothing you have to do to
      get it. Since it is who you are, you are in this moment fully capable of
      realizing the inherent truth of your being. All that is required is to
      give up every notion of who you are for one instant."


      "Vedanta therefore says, Don't squander the power
      of love. Use this powerful force for God-realization.
      We must remember that when we love another we
      are really responding --though unconsciously--to the
      divinity within him or her. ... Our love for others
      becomes unselfish and motiveless when we are
      able to encounter divinity in them.

      "Unfortunately, we usually misplace our love. We
      project our vision of what's true, perfect, and
      beautiful and superimpose it upon whomever or
      whatever we love. It is Self alone, however, who
      is True, Perfect, and Beautiful. Vedanta therefore
      says: Put the emphasis back where it belongs--
      on the divine Self within each person that we
      encounter. That is the real object of our love."

      There is a silence within,
      a silence that descends from without;
      a silence that stills existence
      and a silence that engulfs the entire universe.
      There is a silence of the self
      and its faculties of will, thought, memory, and emotions.
      There is a silence in which there is nothing,
      a silence in which there is something;
      and finally, there is the silence of no-self
      and the silence of God.

      Bernadette Roberts


      Come to my house late at night -
      Do not be shy.
      Hafiz will be barefoot and dancing

      I will be
      In such a grand and generous mood!

      Come to my door at any hour,
      Even if your eyes
      Are frightened by my light.
      My heart and arms are open
      And need no rest -
      They will always welcome you.

      Come in my dear,
      >From the harsh world
      That has rained elements of stone
      Upon your tender face.

      Every soul
      Should receive a toast from us
      For bravery!

      Bring all the bottles of wine you own
      To this divine table - the earth
      We share.

      If your cellar is empty,
      This whole Universe
      Could drink forever
      >From mine!

      Let's dine tonite with exquisite music.
      I might even hire angels
      To play - just for you.

      Hidden beneath your feet
      Is a Luminous Stage
      Where we are meant to rehearse
      Our Eternal Dance!

      And what price is the price
      of my Divine Instruction?
      What could I ask of you?

      All I could ever want
      Is that
      You have the priceless company
      of Someone
      Who can Kiss God,

      That you have the priceless gift
      Of becoming a servant to the Friend!

      Come to my window, dear world -
      Why ever be shy?

      Look inside my playful Verse,
      For Hafiz is Barefoot and Dancing
      And in such a Grand and Generous -
      In such a Fantastic Mood.



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