HIGHLIGHTS of Friday March 31
- This highlights is not a representative sample of the day's postings. It is my
perhaps mistaken impression that many subscribe to the highlights in order to be
spared the sort of personality attack discussions which are the subject of the
majority of today's posts. While many perhaps worthwhile issues were raised as
well in those posts, I find it impossible to select from the over 115 posts any
representation fair to both , so have chosen to omit all those that prefer one
side over the other. If anyone feels they are missing something by this, please
read the archives. Posts which self reflect or discuss mainly the author's
preferences for dealing with conflict are included. If anyone wants my editor
job, they are welcome to it. The first quotes pretty much sum up my thoughts
that as editor here you get to invent your own job description.
_______, i would like to agree but i can't because i do not want to take sides
:) I would say no problem to take sides as long as you are aware that you
do. IMO, a person takes sides because he is either in love or terrified. i
won't tell you which is my case.
terribly in love
Editing is so useful, and also potentially so entrapping. I edit myself all the
time, which is good because otherwise, I would have been jailed, possibly
executed long ago. (civilization relies on editors.) But, I also see that when
the editor becomes a thug, I get beat up unecessarily by my self. I have
certainly felt "self-conscious", even "self-hating". Yuck.
It seems to me (who?) that we edit our thoughts, but are not the thoughts, so
you are neither the unedited version nor the edited version. Identifying with
the thoughts is a painful trap. Both the edited version and the unedited
version are just thoughts, which you either agree with or disagree with.
Presumably, you agree with the edited version, and disagree with the bits you
edited out, but I question that as well. I really do think that I float these
posts not so much for the list, but for myself, to test whether or not I agree
with my editor (which I think also is not ME.) So, I too am still wondering
who I am... (Wondering through samsara)
MARK and DAN
Thank you Dan, for this post:
Dan: How do you understand the reality that people
sometimes commit suicide after prolonged cruel taunting
and negative personalized characterizations?
Your approach suggests that this is the fault of
the one committing suicide, with no shared
responsibility. Your approach suggests
to me relative unconcern with vulnerabilities.
This was helpful to me in placing my recent post in perspective. I
still wish to use the stuff consciously to reduce the harm I do to
myself by unconstrained use of filters and hooks, but I definitely agree
that I also want to cultivate in myself (pretty self centered aren't I?)
a kind regard for others and the vulnerabilities that they may have. I
have compassion for them and therefore wish to help them deconstruct
their filters (assuming, of course that this is really a beneficial
thing to do...), but believe that this may be done gently by helping
them to see the effects of those filters. There is plenty of stuff on
the planet already without my adding to it. No need to push someone's
buttons to point them out, button pushing is an inevitable part of life,
so why not simply explore and share my understanding of the mechanics
of buttons, and leave it up to the rest of the world to do the pushing?
Yes. Thanks again.
Mark, thanks for your comments about projection.
To say that people are only harmed if they allow
harm disregards that people can be hurt by
negative characterizations of themselves projected
by someone they believe to have insight or power.
Yes, ultimately, that person doesn't have that power.
But will such words facilitate this kind of ultimate learning
for the one negatively characterized, particularly when it's
repeated, particularly by more than one person?
To me that's the question. What facilitates learning;
when is enough, enough; when do you listen to someone
saying "these words have hurt"?
Drawing a distinction between words and a flamethrower
is somewhat true, yet words have a degree of power,
otherwise why do we use them; thus, words can heal,
words can express, words can encourage, words can wound.
Courtesy allows words to be followed without having to wade
through lots of projected nonsense. At least
that's how it is for me.
I'm glad you are finding ways to learn from everything.
I agree, this kind of learning is available.
I will extend compassion as best as I can, as that is
what works for me in return.
MARK and HANS
Mark wrote :
"And Gurdjieff said that to get out of prison, first you must realize you
are in prison.
(you say potato, I say potato - isn't it lovely that there are so many
ways to say the same thing?)
Keep on truckin', Hans!"
Hey Mark, how do you know that i'm in the trucking business ? (I really am,
Osho said that to get out of this prison you simply have to realize that you
aren't in it. Isn't that beautiful. Looks like a contradiction.
I don't know anything, and there is a madman who does my typing for me.
There is a Gurdjieff story I like. One of the fellows in the community
was a real pain in the butt, and everyone used to complain about him.
One time, this fellow left the community, much to the relief of
everyone, but Gurdjieff went after him and convinced him to come back (I
think he paid him to do so.) Gurdjieff saw the agitation as being
helpful in waking the rest of the community up. There is a similar
story in the Tibetan Buddhism repertoire. I forget who it was who was
moving to Tibet to spread the dharma, but the one who did so had heard
that the Tibetans were very peaceful, gentle folk, and he had a Bengali
tea boy who was a very difficult person, so he decided to take the tea
boy with him to keep himself honest. Pema Chodron tells the story and
adds that the Tibetans have a lovely sense of humor, so when they tell
the story, they always add that when he got there, he learned that he
really needn't have brought the Bengali tea boy after all.
>Very interesting. can we effectively learn to not allow others words to harmus without putting up a defense mechanism ? It is often said : feel the
pain, don't think about it. But is there feeling without thinking ? what
happens with this pain if there is no mind activety. Does the one exist
without the other. Or comes the pain into existence by thinking about it ?
Very subtle business.
It really is subtle and interesting and it's not easy to watch it and see it
clearly, but I think it's worth the effort! I wonder if there is really any
hurt, or is the suffering the defense mechanism itself? (I notice in my dreams
that I fear pain, but never feel pain - all the suffering comes from the fear.
I think waking consciousness may be similar. Pain is not suffering - the
reaction to pain, the resisting is the suffering.) My investigations suggest
that there are two things in the world, love and fear, and that fear is actually
love misapplied. So someone says something hurtful to me. What happens? My
mind asks what does this mean? Is there an insult here? Yes, I think there is,
now let's be angry. What were the feelings I felt during this process? As I was
looking at the words, trying to understand them, a fear arose that perhaps there
was harm intended. Then anger arose to defend me and justify my resisting the
fear. So I rush from fear, which I don't like (or I think I don't like...) , to
anger, which I claim I don't like, but really prefer to fear, and watch out,
because I can stoke that anger and retell the story to keep it alive, and really
create a monster, and do so habitually, and only much later notice that I don't
really like anger either. (or maybe I don't like the damage done to my body by
storing the anger... yeah, I think that's it. The anger itself I like. A
LOT!!!! (so watch out) (nah, let's not like anger - it's not really like, it's
addiction.) See how often I change my mind about my attitudes towards emotions.
It's constantly in flux. I tell you, a madman types these words!
BUT can I actually stop and feel the fear as it arises, and short circuit the
rest? And what would happen if I did? I'd feel fear, label it, and then what?
Well, in my limited experience playing this game (I've practiced the anger thing
a lot, so it's habitual, and I need to really be aware to be able to step in and
go into the fear.) But, when I do, something surprising and wonderful happens.
I feel compassion for myself, and this LOVE comes rushing in. The love seems to
alter my perceptions, and in the clarity, I see that the fear is there trying to
serve me. The fear is actually made of love, and comes to my rescue to protect
me from harm. BUT, there isn't any harm there to protect me from, so it's
misplaced love. (clumsy love, but dear sweet love nonetheless.) So, now can I
learn to do this all the time, so that whenever incoming threats appear, I see
them as love? That's my practice, and by golly, it seems to be taking a lot of
practice. (practice makes perfect, but it takes an infinite amount of it.)
Whew! Well, that's how it appears from here. How does it look from there?
Mark wrote :
"It really is subtle and interesting and it's not easy to watch it and see
it clearly, but I think it's worth the effort! I wonder if there is really
any hurt, or is the suffering the defense mechanism itself? (I notice in my
dreams that I fear pain, but never feel pain - all the suffering comes from
the fear. I think waking consciousness may be similar. Pain is not
suffering - the reaction to pain, the resisting is the suffering.)
Whew! Well, that's how it appears from here. How does it look from there?
Yes, i think the pain and the defense mechanism are the same.
Yes, i think the resistance is the suffering
Yes, i am not different from my contents
Yes, what i am looking at, is me. I am the looking. No escape possible !
Yes, there is only one entity.
This feeling of *me* is playing a game on us
It creates a division of you and the problem
So you can think that 1) there is you 2) there is the problem
So you start looking to solve the problem
Now you really got a problem
In fact, the only thing we possibly can do is create the (imaginary)
JERRY and DAN
Dan: tearing someone down who didn't ask to be torn
down is abusive.
>Yes, if it is done with blunt instruments. Otherwise thatFrom whence comes the assumption
>tearing down is transformative and people are asking for
that something needs to be done to someone
so they will be transformed?
A little respect and consideration goes
a long way. How about appreciating
"what is" as it is? It doesn't require anyone
transforming it - just let one's own nonsense drop
and let others look to their nonsense.
From what I've seen here, trying to get others
to drop their nonsense when one has one's own to deal with
My buddy Jesus said it well, "Why do you look to take
the splinter out of your neighbor's eye when
you have a beam in your own eye?"
>> Have you noticed,Jerry
>> verbal abuse tends to breed escalated verbal abuse?
>> Is this evidence of freedom? A game of transcendent
>> glory? Really??
>> Or is this random noise, a merry-go-round at a fraternity party with
>> acid-laced kool-aid? Is it license, indulgence, game-playing, alliances,
>It's all that. And it's all happening in an atmosphere thatDan
>is unlike any other kind of party. That makes it
>experimental. It makes it our own thing. An odd creature
>cooked in the kitchen of transformation. I don't like it at
There's a great deal of random noise here.
The assumption that this is transformative is
a big assumption, from here.
There is only the nature of "what is," just
drop one's projections and know the unknown directly.
Shine by your own light.
Don't look to others' random noise
to transform you.
Don't assume that uninvited
personalized attacks will add something to who you are.
I have just received a book that I believe was recommended here. The
author is Eckhart Tolle. The book is "The Power Of Now".
The book, are his opinions. He has a few comments on negativity:
Unless and until you access the consciousness frequency of presence,
all relationships, and particularly intimate relationships, are deeply
flawed and ultimately dysfunctional. They may seem perfect for while,
such as when you are "in love," but invariably that apparent
perfection gets disrupted as arguments, conflicts, dissatisfaction,
and emotional or even physical violence occur with increasing
frequency. It seems that most "love relationships" become love/hate
relationships before long. Love can then turn into savage attack,
feelings of hostility, or complete withdrawal of affection at the
flick of a switch. This is considered normal.
The negative side of a relationship is, of course, more easily
recognizable as dysfunctional than the positive one. And it is also
easier to recognize the source of negativity in your partner than to
see it in yourself. It can manifest in many forms: possessiveness,
jealousy, control, withdrawal and unspoken resentment, the need to be
right, insensitivity and self absorption, emotional demands and
manipulation, the urge to argue, criticize, judge, blame, or attack,
anger, unconscious revenge for past pain inflicted by a parent [or
others], rage and physical violence.
The fact is, of course, that negativity does not work. Instead of
attracting a desirable condition, it stops it from rising. Instead of
dissolving an undesirable one, it keeps it in place. It's only
"useful" function is that it strengthens the ego, and that is why the
ego loves it.
Negativity is totally unnatural. It is a psychic pollutant, and there
is a deep link between the poisoning and destruction of nature and the
vast negativity that has accumulated in the collective human psyche.
GENE and CHRISTIANA
Re: Christiana/coming unglued/synthetic timeline
Hi Christiana... Thanks for replying, and asking about this. I love
it when someone does that!
> From: "Christiana P. Duranczyk"Gene: Here is the answer, and it is quite simple. As I said, 'we'
>Subject: Gene's recipe.. re-tuning without the paste
> Hi, Gene.. I *see* you across this cacophanous room..
> This was a delicious post.. worth revisiting (and a
> question or two). (Also Andrew's very kindred one)
> G: THE COSMIC VERSION:
> Similarly (and you just knew this was coming, yes?), the
> entire Universe 'turns on and off' at a very high rate of
> speed. This (usually imperceptible) activity forms the
> 'common clock speed' which allows our individual
> 'universes' to transparently interoperate on certain
> dimensional levels (the levels of sense perception).
> C:~~~~~ Are you saying that in the interstices between 'on
> and off' we shift gears to other dimensional levels? If
> so, are the sense perceptions the interpreting system?
> Does Intuition factor in here?
edit out the blank spaces. But what is it that we are doing, if the
_blank spaces_ are being autoedited out? Obviously, we are not
replacing blank spaces with blank spaces; it was the blank spaces
which are being 'gotten rid of', so there must be something _put into
the places where the blank spaces otherwise would be_.
BLANK SPACES 'NIGHT', FILLED SPACES 'DAY':
We sleep at night; we indulge in 'waking activities' during the day.
This is our habit. We fool ourselves, in that we assume that we are
'awake' during the composite moments comprised of the sequence of
'blank spaces'. As much as we have an accurate record of the reality
of the 'solid universes', so we have a carefully edited 'record' of
the reality which is built in the 'blank spaces'. This 'reality of
the blank spaces' is NOT perceived as blank, unless one has learned
to see it as so, by allowing the continual deletion/falling-away of
criteria-based value-judgements and 'personal story-lines'.
The 'reality of the blank spaces'
is called 'the unconscious'
by 'depth psychologists'.
It is good
to remember this.
Several postings ago, I mentioned the behaviour of _confabulation_,
in the context of chronic alcoholism. Confabulation is when we 'fill
in the blanks' with made-up information. The reason that chronic
alcoholics do it so well and naturally, is that it is a behaviour
which our cultures have long condoned as a sly method of maintaining
social cohesion. In just that way, an individual confabulates
"reality" into the 'blank spaces' between the manifestations of the
'solid universes', for the maintenance of "IDENTITY".
IDENTITY MAINTAINED VIA PATHOLGICAL TRANCE=STATES!
Other than as a convenient and useful *local universe-nexus locator
icon*, personal identity serves little purpose, beyond being our
ticket to participate in the sanctioned rackets of our various
cultures. This is not a small thing to say! As we see by blatant
example here in NDS, what holds 'personality' together is not the
body or mind; it is the deep and unconscious assumption that there is
actually 'something' to have and to hold, and thus to lose; it is
sometimes called 'self-image'. Self-image is a major component of
ADDICTION EQUALS CLINGING TO IDENTITY:
It is possible to engineer interaction with environmental molecules
to the purpose of maintaining identity. It is also possible to
engineer the internal production of special molecules called
'neurohormones' for the maintenance of identity. These special
peptide molecules are in fact 'drugs' which we prescribe for
ourselves, in our socially-sanctioned task of maintaining identity.
We are vastly rewarded for this behaviour; it is this self-induced
state of trance, which is our ticket to acceptance in our various
cultures. It is this self-trancing behaviour, which is responsible
for maintaining not only identity, but also our culture of
Narcissism. Narcissism (entrancement with self-image) would not be
possible, if as a culture, we 'could' accept the blank spaces as
simply... blank spaces.
NO SILENCE FOR THE LAMBS:
It is the database of the criteria of acceptance, which is the secret
stash of attachment-points used by our mass-culture for purposes of
control of individuals and groups of individuals. This database
exists as 'preferences', sometimes called 'samskara'. Our database of
implanted values resides in the confabulated reality which bridges
the blank spaces between manifestations of the 'solid universes. This
database of implanted values comprises the criteria which represents
the first, initial 'agreements' or compromises which we make as very
young children. This database of criteria was began during our
preverbal years, and has been successively built upon since then.
All 'agreements' which are made after the preverbal phase of Being,
MUST conform to the agreements/compromises made during the 'silent'
preverbal phase of Being; to do otherwise is to lose identity.
'Psychological compensation' is a system of patching an identity that
_could be allowed to expire_. This patching is the very confabulation
of the reality of trance, which stands in place of the natural
silence of the pure emptiness of the 'blank spaces'.
Emptiness is the natural counterpoint to form; silence is the nature
of emptiness. How many people have an 'empty unconscious'?
[To Be Continued!]
Preview of next installment:
"Christiana, as you have seen here in the NDS, identity-addicts
batter the dough of 'other' into forms determined by the Sacred
Cookie-Cutter of personal preference, and then put those forms into
the Oven of Invalidation to bake... "
I hope those of you who are members of the firstname.lastname@example.org list
will forgive getting this twice. I just thought it perfect right now.
Let's move forward and continue arriving, if that is what we are doing.
the aroma of God
begins to arrive
look at these people
not knowing their feet from head
as they begin to arrive
every soul is seeking His soul
every soul parched with thirst
they've all heard the voice
of the quencher of thirst
everyone tastes the love
everyone tastes the milk
anxious to know
from where the real mother
begins to arrive
waiting in fever
when will that final union
begin to arrive
Moslems and Christians and Jews
raising their hands to the sky
their chanting voice in unison
begin to arrive
how happy is the one
whose heart's ear
hears that special voice
as it begins to arrive
clear your ears my friend
from all impurity
a polluted ear
can never hear the sound
as it begins to arrive
if your eyes are marred
with petty visions
wash them with tears
your teardrops are healers
as they begin to arrive
don't rush to finish your poem
the finisher of the poem
the creator of the word
will begin to arrive
-- Ghazal number 837
Translation by Nader Khalili
"Rumi, Fountain of Fire"
Cal-Earth Press, 1995
XAN offers several quotes and a poem:
"Truth is alive within you right now. There is nothing you have to do to
get it. Since it is who you are, you are in this moment fully capable of
realizing the inherent truth of your being. All that is required is to
give up every notion of who you are for one instant."
"Vedanta therefore says, Don't squander the power
of love. Use this powerful force for God-realization.
We must remember that when we love another we
are really responding --though unconsciously--to the
divinity within him or her. ... Our love for others
becomes unselfish and motiveless when we are
able to encounter divinity in them.
"Unfortunately, we usually misplace our love. We
project our vision of what's true, perfect, and
beautiful and superimpose it upon whomever or
whatever we love. It is Self alone, however, who
is True, Perfect, and Beautiful. Vedanta therefore
says: Put the emphasis back where it belongs--
on the divine Self within each person that we
encounter. That is the real object of our love."
There is a silence within,
a silence that descends from without;
a silence that stills existence
and a silence that engulfs the entire universe.
There is a silence of the self
and its faculties of will, thought, memory, and emotions.
There is a silence in which there is nothing,
a silence in which there is something;
and finally, there is the silence of no-self
and the silence of God.
Come to my house late at night -
Do not be shy.
Hafiz will be barefoot and dancing
I will be
In such a grand and generous mood!
Come to my door at any hour,
Even if your eyes
Are frightened by my light.
My heart and arms are open
And need no rest -
They will always welcome you.
Come in my dear,
>From the harsh worldThat has rained elements of stone
Upon your tender face.
Should receive a toast from us
Bring all the bottles of wine you own
To this divine table - the earth
If your cellar is empty,
This whole Universe
Could drink forever
>From mine!Let's dine tonite with exquisite music.
I might even hire angels
To play - just for you.
Hidden beneath your feet
Is a Luminous Stage
Where we are meant to rehearse
Our Eternal Dance!
And what price is the price
of my Divine Instruction?
What could I ask of you?
All I could ever want
You have the priceless company
Who can Kiss God,
That you have the priceless gift
Of becoming a servant to the Friend!
Come to my window, dear world -
Why ever be shy?
Look inside my playful Verse,
For Hafiz is Barefoot and Dancing
And in such a Grand and Generous -
In such a Fantastic Mood.