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  • andrew macnab
    ______________________________________________________________________________________ neo and xan, belief and beyond: I believe in peace, joy and love. neo ~
    Message 1 of 1 , Mar 31, 2000

      neo and xan, belief and beyond:

      I believe in peace, joy and love.


      ~ Well, neo, here is where we differ:
      What we are is peace eternal.
      We are love with no opposite.
      Joy is our inherent nature.
      No belief required.
      All beliefs abandoned
      to this truth.


      Marcia and xan, ascension:


      I don't think you can overcome physical law.
      It is possible to rise above certain laws but
      then you come under other laws. Perhaps
      it is a matter of using the lower levels laws
      in some way as fuel (back to the fuel thing ).

      ~ Why would one make the assumption that
      physical laws cannot be overcome? It does
      happen and even has a name for it - a miracle.

      I have a different perspective on the fuel thing.
      The lower laws have their existence descending
      from what is "higher", more subtle, closer to
      Source, just as our physical existence is fueled
      by Life force.



      Isn't it all the same thing? Isn't there really no difference
      between the lower and the higher except in vibrational
      rate? Doesn't the Life force have it's existence descending
      from what is "higher?" Isn't it a matter of increasing
      the rate of vibrations for the return journey (ascension)?
      Increasing through making use of i.e. not in overcoming?


      ~ All the same, dancing as varying tunes and rhythms.
      Ascending vibrational rate happens automatically as one
      ceases holding on to the lower rate of forms and concepts.
      Rather than using it, recognizing It is using you, living you,
      and always has been.
      We're back to letting it all go each moment.


      Marcia and xan, enneagram, personality:


      ~ Yes. The fluidity of seeing my personal programming and traps described
      in these types without evasion or denial so that they can be let go.


      It is just such a succinct way of describing the mechanics of it.
      I can catch myself "in action" sort of behind the screen. It has also really
      been helpful for me in not taking other people's manifestations so
      personally. I do have to say thought that overlaying it all on the enneagram
      seems a little artificial.

      ~ Yes. My definition of "progress" is
      catching myself quicker.

      Well, yes, enneagram or any other thought
      system is artificial. For instance, that whole
      personality thing that we take as real just
      because it is so familiar.


      Gene and Jerry, a fragment about mystical experience:

      If one removes the asbestos suit needed to live in hell, one is
      immediately cremated, but this is a rare event. Avoiding is not only
      a waste of a perfectly fine hellfire, but also for fear of making an
      ash of oneself.
      To have a mystical experience of the form of reality with
      its matrices laid out in some order, is one thing; it offers
      understanding and tremendous perspective and all that. To
      release it into the white light at the center of this
      display is a totally different thing and leaves one
      innocent, a newborn.


      Greg and Dan and xan, Nagarjuna's neithers:

      >>>Neither one, nor the other, nor both, nor neither.
      >>Dan: If neither one nor the other,
      >> than not neither, neither?
      >Did you mean "than" or "then"?

      Then. Typo.

      I meant this...
      Nagarjuna's way, which you've used in this discussion,
      involves starting with "neither",
      eliminating all possible categories, then
      ending with "nor neither". So the neither
      doesn't apply, neither.

      The negation of all possible categories negates itself
      when it recognizes itself as a remaining category.

      The approach ends all approach, then ends the ending of approach.

      The implications, or non-implications, are neither immense nor

      We talk about nonduality, but there is neither nonduality, nor
      duality, nor something beyond. Nor is there a position for
      stating that there isn't something beyond.

      This has applications to things like relationships and emotions,
      which can no longer be understood as usual. I neither relate nor
      don't relate, nor am I beyond relating and not-relating.
      I neither feel, nor don't feel, nor am I beyond feelings.
      There neither is an I, nor not an I, nor something beyond "I"
      and "not-I".

      One could say it's the ending, not just of philosophy and psychology,
      but of the idea that there's something beyond philosophy and
      psychology (e.g., a "transpersonal truth," etc.).

      It's not here, not now, not there, not then, not yet to become,
      nor beyond these categories.

      It's not conceptual, nonconceptual, both, nor neither.

      So the "highest teaching" is neither teaching nor not-teaching,
      nor beyond teaching and not-teaching. Nor neither, either :-)


      ~ No reference point



      Greg sent this:



      We convince ourselves that life will be better after
      we get married, have a baby, then another. Then we're
      frustrated that the kids aren't old enough and we'll
      be more content when they are. After that, we're
      frustrated that we have teenagers to deal with. We'll
      certainly be happy when they're out of that stage.

      We tell ourselves that our life will be complete when
      our spouse gets his or her act together, when we get a
      nicer car, are able to go on a nice vacation, when
      we retire.

      The truth is, there's no better time to be happy than
      right now. If not now, when?

      Your life will always be filled with challenges. It's
      best to admit this to yourself and decide to be happy

      One of my favorite quotes comes from Alfred D. Souza.
      He said, "For a long time it had seemed to me that
      life was about to begin - real life. But there
      was always some obstacle in the way, something to be
      gotten through first, some unfinished business, time
      still to be served, or a debt to be paid.

      Then life would begin. At last it dawned on me that
      these obstacles were my life."

      This perspective has helped me to see that there is
      no way to happiness.

      Happiness is the way. So, treasure every moment that
      you have and treasure it more because you shared it
      with someone special, special enough to spend your
      time with...and remember that time waits for no one.

      So, stop waiting until you finish school, until you go
      back to school,until you lose ten pounds, until you
      gain ten pounds, until you have kids, until your kids
      leave the house, until you start work, until you
      retire, until you get married, until you get divorced,
      until Friday night, until Sunday morning, until you
      get a new car or home, until your car or home is
      paid off, until spring, until summer, until fall,
      until winter, until you're off welfare, until the
      first or fifteenth, until your song comes on, until
      you've had a drink, until you've sobered up, until you
      die, until you're born again to decide that there is
      no better time than right now to be happy.

      Happiness is a journey, not a destination.


      Thought for the day:
      Work like you don't need money,
      Love like you've never been hurt,
      And dance like no one's watching.


      An Angel To Watch over You
      Some people come into our lives and quickly go..
      Some people become friends and stay a while..
      leaving beautiful footprints on our hearts and we are
      never quite the same because we have made a good


      Yesterday is history.
      Tomorrow a mystery.
      Today is a gift.
      That's why it's called the present!

      Mark, enlightenment=losing weight:


      Should we equate enlightenment with getting into heaven? I love the story about the
      Chinese dude (no names today, huh? who
      wrote that song?) who was so very close to enlightened after years of monastic
      practice, but not quite there. He decided to go
      off into the mountains to find a cave, and as he was climbing up, he met a man coming
      down the mountain with a huge collection
      of firewood strapped to his back, and noticing that this man was an unusual man, with
      a deep presence, he asked him if he
      could tell him something useful about enlightenment. The unusual man, being an
      incarnation of a Buddha of compassion (man, I
      just gotta learn those names if I'm gonna spread these stories...) (hee, hee), dropped
      his bundle of sticks. Poof! That was it.
      Our lovely Chinese dude suddenly became enlightened (see how easy it is?). But (in
      spite of being enlightened?) he still had
      questions, and the one that popped to mind was "What next?". The Buddha picked up his
      bundle and continued on down the
      mountain. What changes? nothing What changes? everything. you know that, because
      you've seen it. is it permanent? only
      you can answer, and only you care.

      If the stuff here is a burden, set it down. (I know that's what you are saying, I'm
      just expressing my intent to set it down... it's
      true for me that my posts are little experiments in what do I really think, and I
      float them out there and some feel right and some
      feel wrong and so it goes...) Does setting it down mean that mean all such stuff
      disappears in a poof of smoke, or that the
      existence of stuff is proof against enlightenment, no... enlightenment means getting
      lighter. Judi doesn't take this shit seriously,
      YOU do. Judy only cares if you lighten up because she knows how nice it is to be
      light. (Judy I'm speaking for you. do you
      care? does it help? shall I shut up? am I a child? yes, of course I am...) Why do I
      not consider myself enlightened? Because I
      am getting ligher and lighter and lighter all the time, and I like it, so I keep it,
      so I haven't vanished. fine with me, I like wiggling
      my neck and grinning and noticing how it changes me. I think I'll just keep on
      changing. No need to stop.
      Yummmmmmmmmmmmmm..... How deep does the sigh go? Hasn't hit bottom yet.... I love
      being unenlightened! How does
      this post feel as I prepare to send it? Mixed.

      All my love,

      Marcia and Gene and andrew, between moments:

      Between one moment and the next...

      I wonder if it is between one thought and the next or
      one feeling and the next?

      I keep wondering if if it is possible to stay away or
      if it works like a light bulb. A light bulb is not really
      on all the time but is really on/off. Someone else
      could explain the mechanics of it better than I.


      Ah -so, Glasshopper...

      A common _incandescent_ light bulb is actually 'on' all of the time,
      by virtue of the filament, which continually glows red/white hot,
      thus causing the special gasses inside the bulb to 'incandesce' (thus
      the name of that type of bulb!)

      On the other hand, other types of bulbs, namely the common
      _florescent_ bulb (which has nothing to do with the smell of flowers,
      unless it is used as a 'bud light'), actually 'turns off and on' with
      each reversal of the 120 Volt AC (alternating current) power. At 60
      Hz (60 cycles per second), that is 120 flickers per second, which
      just happens to be in a range of frequencies which can adversely
      effect the endocrine systems of any nearby Living Being.

      You can check this for yourself; next time you are in a
      florescent-lighted room, take hold of a pencil by the very tip, and
      wave it up and down in front of your eyes. It will 'strobe' as it
      moves, due to the force of the photon-interruptus shower.

      Good modern fixtures incorporate a 'high-speed ballast', to boost the
      operating frequency of such lights much higher. Less irritation from
      those lights, as well as lower power usage.


      Similarly (and you just knew this was coming, yes?), the entire
      Universe 'turns on and off' at a very high rate of speed. This
      (usually imperceptible) activity forms the 'common clock speed' which
      allows our individual 'universes' to transparently interoperate on
      certain dimensional levels (the levels of sense perception).


      It is FUN to re-tune oneself, so as to be aware of the 'blank space'
      between the manifestations of the 'solid Universes'. Usually, we
      simply 'edit out' the blank spaces, but it is possible to suspend
      this activity of editing, and to be able to have access to both the
      emptiness AND the fullness, by choice!

      One of the Really Cool Aspects of this (learned) ability, is to be
      able to halt the process of 'pasting yesterday' onto the newly
      manifesting Universe. Most people do this (unconsciously!), in order
      to maintain a nice, uniform, predictable manifestation.

      Letting go of criteria, is to avoid 'copying' yesterday...

      Letting go of resentment, is to avoid 'pasting' yesterday onto today...


      It is good to remember that using or maintaining any _strategy_ will
      necessitate carrying over to tomorrow, what happened yesterday. If we
      truly want a 'better tomorrow' we could learn to let go of today.
      That is why it is so, uh, counterproductive to try to 'fix what is
      wrong'; the attempt merely stretches events further along a
      (self-synthesized) timeline, 'ad infinitum'. By the way, this is
      exactly how identity is maintained!

      From the Space Between,

      ==Gene Poole==

      Thoughts and feelings are body consciousness, they are discontinuous. The thoughts and
      feelings of body consciousness rise and fall in pure consciousness. It makes no
      difference to pure consciousness whether body consciousness is present or not, but
      there is potential for awakening between thoughts, feelings, moments. The between is
      timeless. A reversal
      of the individual happens, so that it is not between thoughts or feelings, it is
      constant and thoughts and feelings rise in it. This reversal can happen when one looks
      into the space between moments.


      Michael and Dan, full of it:

      You are all full of it!

      Peace - and Love Abiding - Michael

      There is a tendency to find
      simplicity through
      reduction to the lowest
      common denominator.

      We are indeed full of it.

      This, however, must be
      reduced further.

      It is full of us.



      Hi Y'all,

      I was just sitting here enjoying Annie's enjoyment of my enjoyment of
      the list's enjoyment, and I was wobbling my head and grinning like
      Stevie Wonder does when he plays music (ever seen that and had to laugh
      from sheer pleasure?), and I suddenly understood why he does that.
      Because it feels good and he hasn't seen that none of the rest of us
      indulge in this amazing pleasure, so he's given himself permission...
      Yum. We should be so blind!!!!

      Love, Mark
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