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HIGHLIGHTS of Friday March 24

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  • Gloria Lee
    Highlights of Friday ... Hi Annie, I agree that a person doesn t HAVE to do anything. But for many it s a great challenge to just be while being involved in
    Message 1 of 1 , Mar 25, 2000
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      Highlights of Friday

      > A person doesn't HAVE to do anything. It's not necessary
      > to stop doing all the above things unless a person wants
      > to stop. All these things can happen with a full
      > appreciation that all there is is now. Life doesn't need
      > to stop or slow down for a person to just be... does it?
      >
      > Whatever,
      > Love Annie

      Hi Annie,

      I agree that a person doesn't HAVE to do anything. But for
      many it's a great challenge to 'just be' while being
      involved in life. I'm thinking of Joshua Pritikin's
      competition studies. He was an extreme-poster here for
      awhile. He writes on his website
      http://www.why-compete.org


      The Four Origins of Awareness

      The 0th person perspective:
      I salute that which is revealed when thought ceases.

      The 1st person perspective:
      I salute myself.

      The 2nd person perspective:
      I salute you.

      The 3rd person perspective:
      I salute our predicament.

      Everything else, the great illusion, I do not salute.

      -----------------------

      As I see it, many have been brought up to salute the great
      illusion, and if one's not careful, the above perspectives
      can be part of the great illusion. Maybe any perspective at
      all is part of the great illusion.

      double whatever,
      jerry
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      Marcia: I wasn't pointing at you. It was a compliment if anything.
      >What I find interesting is all the talk about how we are
      >nothing and then everything gets taken personally. From
      >my perspective this *was* a light hearted discussion.
      >It only goes to show how much personality gets in the
      >way of talking about anything. Personality means
      >taking it personally.

      D: Agreed, Marcia - a useful observation.
      Also - personality can mean deciding one will make an effort not
      to "take it personally", so one will "stuff" reactions, while the reality
      is that one *is* reacting personally, just not showing it. To
      be beyond personality is not the result of a decision that
      it's better not to react, but a choiceless awareness
      simply not in a place of personal reactivity. Awareness is flexible,
      not rigid, is spontaneous, not stuffing reactions.

      Viewed one way, "personally", everything is referenced
      automatically to *me*, to what I like and don't like. A permanent
      point of reference is assumed, and events and experiences are thus
      interpreted and associated. Viewed the other way, beyond personality,
      no reference point is there. When it is seen that no reference point
      is *really* there,
      no "self" is projected, and inferences and associations simply
      won't occur the same way. A person is free to like one thing,
      dislike another thing. Someone viewing that person as "other" will
      be able to say that person has a personality, because there will
      be a certain tone of voice, look, ways of doing things. However,
      in terms of awareness, awareness isn't stuck "there" - there's
      no awareness assumed to be "inside" that person "by" anyone.
      So, freedom from personality is not a personal achievement of
      a particular person. It's the inherent nature of awareness itself,
      as it is, this moment, free of any dwelling within any personal
      being or body. The attempt to assume a centrally located entity
      is the basis for "duality" -- when it is seen this attempt is futile,
      there is no central reference point anywhere, and the essential
      "nonduality" of "everything" is seen, effortlessly, "be-ingly,"
      because trying to maintain a center and an internal private
      entity is what takes effort. Nothing begins or ends,
      everything refers to everything else, infinity is now, here :-)

      Love,
      Dan
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      Melody had written:
      > permission to simply say, "This or
      > that person's full of shit" without
      > feeling I need to 'fix' that feeling by
      > trying to become friends with them
      > or something, or to convert them
      > to my point of view.


      Marcia replied:

      I think the real issue is this idea of point of view.
      My point of view is in constant flux. But at any particular
      moment that I am in a particular point of view I will feel
      unified and whole. I am buffered from seeing that five
      minutes before I, myself, felt just the opposite. We expect
      others to be more conscious than we are willing to be or
      are ourselves.

      We think that we are unified and just having different feelings
      and thoughts. The truth is that each feeling and thought and
      point of view is a self. And there is nobody home. Nobody
      in charge. And boy, oh boy, if we put one point of view out
      there, then we feel as if we have to defend it. That is the whole
      idea of being nothing or no one thing. Points of view are just
      moments in time. *You* have no point of view. Points of view
      are limitations. Nice for the moment but don't stake your identity
      on it. i.e. don't become identified.
      ~~~~~~~~

      Larry sent:
      >
      >"A person is not earth, not water, nor fire, nor wind, not space, not
      >consciousness. Nor is he or she all of them. Yet what person is there
      >separate from these? And just as a person is not perfectly solid because
      >he or she is what can be labeled on the collection of these six
      >constituents, likewise none of the constituents are perfectly solid
      >because each is what can be labeled on a collection of parts."
      >
      >Nagarjuna

      Dan:
      There is movement, but only because there is the nonmoving.
      There is nonmovement, but only because there is the moving.

      Movement happens, but nothing is moving.
      Any attempt to define what it is that is moving
      requires separating movement from something that moves;
      When observed closely, this is only possible
      intellectually, not in reality.
      In reality, what moves is movement, and only in
      contrast to the nonmoving, with which it arises.
      In terms of persons, there is no "something" moving
      through a life that can be called a person -
      as there is no static something or separable entity
      being moved by the movement of life. Neither is there
      not a person, for there *is* the movement that is life.

      Any element can be analyzed in terms of other elements,
      ad infinitum. Ultimately, therefore, there are no elements.
      However, there is "something," for there is life, there is
      perception. It's just ultimately not analyzable in terms
      of parts, elements, beings, or categories.

      Love,
      Dan
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      Marcia queried Hans:

      >Question: Big relief or big excuse?
      H: As far as my understanding reaches, it could be both. I am just watching all
      my excuses and reliefs and i'm doing nothing about them. This could also be
      an excuse :)

      >Second Question: Is the meaning and purpose of life to feel good?
      H: Who knows (every meaning and/or purpose is an invention of ourselves ?), but
      is sure feels good to feel good :) Seriously, what can be wrong with feeling
      good ? Given the choice of being asleep (not awakened) and feeling good or
      being alseep and feeling bad, what would be your choice :) Ok, I admit that
      feeling bad might be a good excuse to get on the path to awakening !

      Feeling good and relieved
      Hans
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      Jerry:

      I found this goodness in Sharon's post to Christiana. All I
      did was edit out, or see beyond, the personal bitterness:

      "Look deeper.. I see Titanic written on the bow... just go
      down with the ship.. no survivors.. no schmoozing ... hey
      don't include me in your romantic notion .. mind coloring..
      love song thingie ..Ever listen to any Frank Zappa?? I know
      he 's dead and all.. but he has.. oops.. had a great way
      with tone and word..although I don't think he wrote the
      words "I sold my heart to the junkman .. yeah" which touched
      me deeply." --Sharon

      Minus the attack on Christiana, this brings me joy for some
      reason. We're all damsels in distress.

      Jerry ~~~~~

      Jerry later:

      Quoting a segment of Sharon's offensive spiel to Christiana
      may or may not have been popular. I can't come to the
      computer every day if I can't be free to explore the edges.

      I hate what Sharon sent. It was stupid. But, to me, there
      was something of value within it, and it's something that
      relates to everyone.

      We've had lengthy discussions on Alice Bailey's anti-Semitic
      posturings (I'm not comparing her to Sharon) and then spoken
      well of her. I've seen incredibly dumb and possibly (but not
      definitely) illegal things done on this list, and not banned
      anyone (not for long, anyway).

      There's one person sometimes here who doesn't even remember.
      He flamed the hell out of me more than once on Usenet when I
      first came onto the Internet.

      When a year later that person sent a gracious and kind note
      to a Mr. Katz because I had a pretty interesting website and
      he wanted in, I laughed and gave it to him. That person has
      been quoted so much, I can't even begin to tell you.

      And I was flamed a thousand times worse than anything Sharon
      ever did to Christiana and I had no support system on the
      Internet. But we've come a long way. And I attribute it to
      seeing the genius in people and allowing it to speak, no
      matter what they do that might belie it. That's something
      we all do for each other, and, really, no one is excluded.
      Let's not forget what Joshua Pritikin used to say:

      "Never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by
      stupidity."

      If I was off the mark by quoting Sharon on my web page, then
      consider the motto of Joshua. I meant no harm. But I need to
      be free to play on the edges.

      feels like Spring,

      Jerry
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      Judi:
      **************
      It's not just a personality psychological issue which many of you
      think it is. It's much more serious and profound than that.
      It's about your death. And from this perspective, who's good and
      who's bad and who's right and who's wrong and that whole adventure
      of a so-called person's life is reduced to squat!

      ******* Hi Neo. Yes, in our understanding, in our awakening, we see that
      we are
      more than these bodies here, but at the same time there is surrender to
      them.
      There is a beauty to this. As a matter of fact, it's what is beautiful.
      Everyone is already *surrendered*. This is Surrender. See that.
      There is no separate, there is only this process, Life, that is
      surrender itself.

      ****** I would say that somehow something clicks, and it finally dawns
      on a person,
      after they've been around the block a few thousand times, that they are
      in fact only suffering, and a surrender to that fact takes place. The
      hopeless of their situation
      dawns on them, and that's
      what real *let go* is and serious 180 degree enquiry and insight
      actually begin into the nature of who and what you are. It's very
      sobering. And in that deep serious enquiry, understanding emerges. And
      identity as the suffering one falls away.
      And something else, this is not a long drawn out affair, what I am
      speaking of
      is sudden. It's not a 'career'. :-)

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      Melody expands on a quote of Roger:
      Yesterday Roger wrote:

      "Expansion & contraction are the play of one process.
      Some people are more tuned to contraction (not this - not
      this) where others are more tuned to expansion (love).

      I like that quote from Bruce about someone's style being "equal
      opportunity destruction". What a great comment on the style
      of contraction, then we have these wonderful quotes from Rumi
      expressing the expansive side."


      What Roger has offered here has had a significant impact
      on me this morning. Actually...it had quite an effect on me
      last night!.....I could feel something 'click' as I read his words.

      It explains so much!

      More than anything I have ever read it points to the
      source of much of the animosity that appears on this
      list from time to time.....such as what we witnessed
      with "Sharon's" remarks earlier this week.

      This, to me, is worthy of a deeper look. A much
      deeper look. It seems to lead to a door marked,
      "Acceptance".

      love,
      Melody
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      > Marcia:
      > You cannot awaken by willful effort but by willing effort. There
      > is a huge difference.

      Mira:
      And then upon awakening,
      the one that was always the same,
      realizes that there never was any difference of any measure anywhere.
      That in order to measure the size of a difference,
      one needs to measure the size of the gap between two points of view.
      This can only be accomplished when starting off from one point, proceeding
      to measure the distance to another point.
      And the realized one just realized, that there is no point or position that
      can be taken, thus no measurements of huge or small can be made here.
      And then the one that used to awaken by willfulling willingful effort is
      left speechless,
      since neither the words "huge" nor "small" serve to describe his position,
      or his path, or his struggle.

      Love,
      Mira

      Thank you for this clear expression, Mira.
      How magical when there is no comparison to be made.
      How empty when there is no one there to make a comparison.
      How full when there is nothing left out anywhere.

      I'm rendered speechless in this
      land of no-difference, no-sameness!

      Love,
      Dan
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~
      >Can someone please explain to me these types of attacks by proclaimed
      >awakened ones?
      >
      >neo

      Blessings, Neo.
      Explaining nothing of what others do,
      I remain who I am.
      In this universe of no awakened ones and no sleeping ones,
      Peace Alone.
      Proclaiming doesn't touch it, questions don't get at it -
      thus, no conflict of this and that.

      Many, yet no separation; diversity, yet seamless.

      Infinite movement Here.
      Ultimate stillness Here.
      No one is not Here.
      No one is Here.

      Love,
      Dan
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      From: "neo" <theone1@...>

      To Melody

      I agree with you. I have been coming here for awhile but then I find
      myself leaving because of the animosity here. If your comments would
      have been made by someone else they would not have received the same
      response. Perhaps we should look at how our responses are colored by
      the person that wrote it as well as the content. I have heard that
      people are afraid to post because of the negativity. Since we are all
      one in unity, perhaps we should express it more.

      Musings of a not so innocent bystander.

      No one likes us
      I don't know why.
      We may not be perfect
      But Heaven knows we try.
      But all around,
      Even our old friends put us down.
      Let's drop the Big One
      And see what happens.
      Asia's crowded
      Europe's too old.
      Africa's far too hot
      And Canada's too cold.
      And South America
      Stole our name.
      NDS's too confrontational.
      Lets drop the Big One
      There will be no one left to blame us.
      We'll save Australia
      Don't wanna hurt no kangaroo
      We'll build and All American amusement park there
      They got surfin' too.
      Boom goes London,
      Boom Pari.
      More room for you
      And more room for me.
      And every city, the whole world 'round
      Will just be another American town
      Oh how peaceful it will be
      We'll set everybody free.
      You'll wear a Japanese kimono, babe
      It'll be Italian shoes for me.
      They all hate us anyhow
      So let's drop the Big One now,
      Let's drop the Big One now.

      from the movie "A Blast in the Past"

      neo ;-}
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      More neo to Melody:

      There does seem to be a lot going on here that is not up front and
      honest. Perhaps if we are writing to someone we do not like we should
      start with the old Saturday Night Live line:
      "Jane, you ignorant slut..."

      In this way the negative feelings are up front right out in the open
      instead of ending a message of "I hate you", Love xxx.

      When I look within there are things that I do not like (very few, mind
      you, as I am almost perfect). ;-}

      When I look "outside" I still see me and some of that me I do not
      like.

      Is it possible everything is unfolding perfectly and the problem is my
      judgement? I think so. Who said that famous line something about
      you will be judged as you judged?

      The ramblings of a madman (certified).
      neo
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      xan offers on Now:

      There is nothing in existence other than right now.
      When we go into memory, we're no longer present in the Spirit.
      We're in a contraction of the mind and the emotions,
      and it actually has no value for us.
      The teaching of the world is of contraction.
      The teaching of the truth is of expansion.

      -- John-Roger
      The Tao of Spirit
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      More from xan:

      Name and form hide reality: This is the Teaching. Giving name and form is an
      obstacle to Freedom because then the Substratum, Consciousness cannot be
      seen. Call it a statue of horse and the granite is hidden, see a ring and you
      won't see the gold. Name and form can never leave Consciousness, as the ring
      can never leave the gold. Even space is in this because only Self is.

      Before a wave rises it is Ocean, before desire moves it is Emptiness. Destroy
      craving and bondage by identifying as experiencing, not experience, as
      Seeing, not the seer. You are Consciousness, not one who is Conscious.

      To be free you must be like Freedom and this is without desire. All is and is
      known in Desirelessness. If you don't want to possess remove your pockets:
      duality! The past is past so don't carry it in your pocket. Why go to the
      graveyard when you know that you are alive? All that is temporary must be
      shunned so only take hold of your Absolute Self.


      -----Papaji
      from The Truth Is ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      ***********************
      More ballons, get your balloons now...

      <
      I like this analogy a lot. As a human balloon we are infinitely
      expandable. What this means is that as we "grow" spiritually we are
      constantly expanding. With every spiritual experience or insight we
      grow. we expand.The balloon of our personality expands and expands.
      But it will never pop, not by this natural course of expansion. And
      the skin of the balloon, personality, gets thinner and thinner, BUT,
      it is still there. "I" am still there. So the only solution (if it
      can be called that) is to pop that balloon NOW at whatever size it
      happens to be.(sorry guys, size is definietly not important in this
      case). Now matter how big the balloon gets (experience)or how
      much air goes in or out of the balloon, the balloon which is
      personality still holds everything in place.
      This is a very real and serious trap of any spiritual path. The skin
      of the balloon can get so thin that it is barely visible but it is
      still holding everthing in place.And it is particularly invisible to
      the one whose skin it is.Which is why it is invaluable to associate
      with those who are "trained" to see such things.

      matthew

      ~ But matthew, what if the balloon skin is only imaginary?
      Then it doesn't matter if expands or contacts or pops or
      goes limp. What seems to be inside is the same stuff
      as what seems to be outside, and is not even stuff. It's
      the *stuff* that gives the appearance of skin, balloon,
      personality - all imagined.

      Xan
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      little poem from Mary Oliver . . .
      (from memory and not not sure of her punctuation or if it's a fragment or the
      whole thing)

      blessings,
      Andrew Mc Donald


      ------

      One morning
      the fox came down the hill
      and didn't see me.

      And I thought to myself,
      so this is the world,

      . . . I'm not in it.


      It is beautiful.


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