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Highlights for Thursday, March 16, 2000

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    Highlights From Thursday, March 16, 2000 Ed Note: If you would like to read more in a particular Thread, you can subscribe to NondualitySalon, Web Only, and
    Message 1 of 1 , Mar 17, 2000
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      Highlights From Thursday, March 16, 2000

      Ed Note: If you would like to read more in a particular Thread, you can
      subscribe to NondualitySalon, Web Only, and read Messages at Onelist by
      Thread name...at your leisure.



      God is one crazy Lady. You just can't expect anything from Her in terms
      we can understand as individual beings, except Her love in our hearts.

      MICHAEL: She sure is a complicated lady! Glad she has all of that
      unconditional love going!

      Thread: "Marcia/no time like the present"


      MARSHA: The machine part of us is very interesting. Some of the programs
      run just fine. I have a good professional role. I can just plug it in
      and let it run. I don't have to pay much attention to it all. In this
      scene the mechanical aspect is an energy saving mechanism.
      Some of the other programs don't run so hot.      

      XAN: I've been listening with interest to your fruitful self
      explorations. I hope you don't mind my 2 cents being laid down in here.

      May I suggest that your other programs are actually running perfectly as
      they were established. It is the fact that they are running on old data
      that makes them not so successful. Because our mind is programable - a
      memory function - as children most of us developed emotional survival
      strategies that became our programs of response to specific situations
      and continue to run even when those situations are long gone.

      That is not new information, I'm sure, but looking at it this way,
      simply as obsolete data, can give a fresh start. I used to work with
      people in directly updating these vintage parts of the subconscious mind
      so that they could give up their archaic ways and respond freshly in the
      present, rather than acting as if the present was the past. Poor things
      don't even know that you have grown up and are successful in so many

      As with a computer program, it does no good to wish these mind programs
      would change, to analyze them or to manipulate them. One must go into
      where the erroneous data is and change it there.
      with love

      Thread: "The Heart's Counting Knows Only One"


      The Heart's Counting Knows Only One

      In Sung China,
      two monks friends for sixty years
      watched the geese pass.

      Where are they going?
      one tested the other, who couldn't say.

      That moment's silence continues.

      No one will study their friendship
      in the koan-books of insight.
      No one will remember their names.

      I think of them sometimes,
      standing, perplexed by sadness,
      goose-down sewn into their quilted autumn robes.

      Almost swallowed by the vastness of the mountain, but not yet.

      As the barely audible
      geese are not yet swallowed;
      as even we, my love, will not entirely be lost.


      Beautiful, Gill.
      Really right "there".
      Thank you so much.
      It reminds me of Jimi Hendrix
       who said something
       similar, but
       more in the vein of rock,
       and with less silence :-) ...
      "Will the wind ever remember,
      the names it has blown in the past?
      And this old age, with its heartbreak
       and its wisdom...
      It whispers, "no, this will be the last."
      And the wind cries "Mary".

      Thread: "Instructiions for Life, by the Dalai Lama"


      Ed. Note: Somehow i just can not imagine the Dalai Lama using expression
      "with reckless abandon."


      I N S T R U C T I O N S F O R   L I F E

      1. Take into account that great love and great achievements involve  
      great risk.

      2. When you lose, don't lose the lesson.

      3. Follow the three R's:
              - Respect for self
              - Respect for others and
              - Responsibility for all your actions.

      4. Remember that not getting what you want is sometimes a wonderful
      stroke of luck.

      5. Learn the rules so you know how to break them properly.

      6. Don't let a little dispute injure a great friendship.

      7. When you realize you've made a mistake, take immediate steps to
      correct it.

      8. Spend some time alone every day.

      9. Open your arms to change, but don't let go of your values.

      10. Remember that silence is sometimes the best answer.

      11. Live a good, honorable life. Then when you get older and think back,
      you'll be able to enjoy it a second time.

      12. A loving atmosphere in your home is the foundation for your life.

      13. In disagreements with loved ones, deal only with the current
      situation. Don't bring up the past.

      14. Share your knowledge. It's a way to achieve immortality.

      15. Be gentle with the earth.

      16. Once a year, go someplace you've never been before.

      17. Remember that the best relationship is one in which your love for
      each other exceeds your need for each other.

      18. Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

      19. Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon.

      Thread: [simply this]


      Of all the powers granted a seeker,
      of all the gifts, of all the secrets, of all the miracles by far the
      most potent, extraordinary, and wondrous
        is simply this --

      the power to love one another
      right now
      regardless of whatever else we may be doing regardless of whatever else
      we might prefer to be doing regardless of whatever else we wish the
      other were doing

      This is how Jesus loves,
      This is how Ramakrishna loves,
      This is how the Buddha loves,
      This is how Rumi loves
      This is how the Mother loves

      This greatest power of them all is not about visions and auditions,
      clairvoyance, teleportation, or telekinesis, prophesy, astrology,
      numerology, and palmistry fire walking or walking on water

      Neither is it about health wealth and happiness All of that is kid's
      compared to this one

      The Teacher said it,
      clearly and unmistakably,
      "This I command you, to love one another"
      Nothing about when it's convenient,
      or under certain circumstances,
      or in special places
      No ifs, no ands, no buts
      No excuses, no exceptions
      Simply, do it
      love one another
      walk the walk

      Simple, huh? Some days I can only manage to crawl....LOL John

      JODY: That talk would be a tremendous walk, and it points to the
      difference between the realized and the enlightened.

      I must confess to a convenient disregard of this axiom at times. Not in
      order to hurt anyone, but as a way to express frustration.

      It requires vigilance to remember that there is no "one" to be annoyed,
      so quick is the reaction in the mind.

      Perhaps next time I get cut off on the freeway I'll be blessed to
      remember to ask myself, "who is annoyed?"

      It is the realization that there is nobody to be angry that allows
      unconditional love to run unobstructed in one's life.

      Thread: " From dictionary to manual"


      SKYE: Just playing with more ideas here ;-) so please don't take it as a
      knock, this is just something i've always wondered.
      you wrote

      [snip]....I also see that
      this concept is just another concept amongst many other concepts. The
      totality of it however makes my understanding clearer and clearer that
      is nothing that you can *do* because whatever you think, it will be a
      concept and nothing more than that. On the other hand, i feel that some
      concepts are useful (for the time being)

      SKYE: won't it be a laugh if we find out upon leaving the
      body, that the whole cosmos *IS An Eternal Idea* and plans to stay that
      way. And that what we thought was "nothing more than another concept
      amongst many other concepts that are only useful (for the time being)"
      actually hold an enormous element of truth and that our concepts spring
      from a living pulsing indestructible psychological CONCEPT that is more
      real than any of our primitive imaginings of nonexistence and ideas of
      nonexperience. And that we've been wasting our time here in 3D trying to
      find out whats behind IT while IT has absolutely no interest in
      nonexistent origins, been there done that, and is now eternally busy
      timelessly expanding and multiplying psychologically its vibrant wisdom
      and radiant love. In fact denizens of other earthly spheres maybe
      mourning the loss of our creative 3D mental contributions to this
      laborious mental regression of ours and have been waiting patiently for
      eons for us to snap out of this second illusion, this petit mort, this
      no thing, no concept game and start exploring the some REAL concepts
      Just a thought.

      Thread: "Skye/Just a question"


      DAN: My view, expressed in words, yet knowing that beyond words is

      SKYE: Okay, but to me words are not beyond reality they are but one of
      the infinite varieties of vocabulary within all that is. To me words are
      but one form of concrete thought, graphic images mathematical symbols,
      the cells of the body, molecules, time space motion, receptivity
      conductivity vibration, hearing touch sight taste smell perception, all
      are vocabularies, words of another form to me.

      DAN (continuing): There's something that the mind can't reach, that
      can't be thought. That something is "that" with no opposition.

      SKYE: To a being locked into night and day, hot and cold, life and
      death, yes it might ponder (with its mind :-) that there might be a
      realm it can't reach. But thats all it can do, ponder with the 3D brain,
      there is no possibility of pondering something that the mind can't reach
      without that brain. So one gets on with life and laughter. It is here in
      relation to all things that opposition disappears Here and Now not
      somewhere that the mind can not reach.

      DAN (continuing):
      Thought and sense depend on something being opposed by something else.
      That which has no opposition isn't opposed to thought or sense. It
      simply can't be comprehended by thought or sense. It doesn't interfere
      with them, in fact gives them life. It's both "infinitely bigger" and
      "infinitely subtler"
        than thought and sense.

      SKYE: Thought and sense also depend on vibrations relating. Nonduality
      reveals its same essential law of synthesis in every opposed or non
      opposed realm, it is not beyond them, it is not lacking, obscured,
      opposed or obstructed just because you have thought which has taken the
      form of words, images or feelings.

      DAN (continuing): It simply can't be comprehended by thought or sense.
      It doesn't interfere with them, in fact gives them life. It's both
      "infinitely bigger" and "infinitely subtler"
        than thought and sense.

      SKYE: And when one comes to that realisation then there seems no point
      continuing this fruitless pondering with the cerebral cortex. One
      harkens to the urge to create with it, as this radiant "infinitely
      bigger" and "infinitely subtler" creates, rather than merely ponder what
      cannot be known day after day. Why would one want to remain for the life
      of the planet, a mankind (homo sapien) obsessed only in his own
      realisation while his planet dies of neglect.

      DAN (continuing): Once we talk about it, we necessarily present a
      concept or an image. Whatever is presented can be countered by a
      different concept or image. The mind can go back and forth from one
      presentation to another. Or the mind can come to a point of "no return"
      - a point where it can't look back, can't look ahead, can't speculate,
      and can't even locate itself.

      SKYE: dan your've been saying the same thing for 8 mths now, why, don't
      you get bored? :-)

      You are seeing things from the limited point of view of a human mind
      only, so yes it will seem to " go back and forth from one presentation
      to another". After all this repetition, still you have need of
      convincing yourself further.

      DAN (continuing): That point is pointed to, but never successfully. It's
      indicated, but never by a true image. Sages have talked about it
      forever, because
        it's what's real, it's where all conflict and doubt are resolved.

      SKYE: For me "doubt are resolved" here and now not when i have *wasted a
      lifetime* studying my self or the Self i have always been.

      DAN (continuing): I'm only sharing these ideas because they're what
      occurred to me after I read your piece. I have no thought other than

      SKYE: But dan these ideas you have shared are no different to the ideas
      of a beyond thought you have expounded (with thought) for months on end,
      nothing i said has made you express an alternate idea.
      I have no thought other than that.
      Exactly, thats what i'm trying to say, we are nothing but psychological

      DAN: (continuing): Clearly, these are ideas. They're not "that" which is
      beyond ideas,

      SKYE: That? That what? how can you ponder "that" which is beyond ideas,"
      without your brain? I'm wondering whether we *and the creator* are all
      concepts and percepts no matter how much we might try to fantasise

      DAN: (continuing): contrasts, comparison, or separation.
      "That" won't be found in thought, speculation, sensory data, nor in the
      meanings created by thought.

      SKYE: My point was that you may find on leaving the body you're still
      using another form of sense data. We do not have the whole enchilada. We
      may be quite surprised to find that we are so slow in vibration that
      "That" which can't be found in thought, speculation, sensory data, nor
      in the meanings created by thought", is not meant to be the issue at all
      for us. All that is may have plans for your essence that has nothing to
      do with "something that the mind can't reach". IT may even fill you with
      an energy that makes you go 180°in the opposite direction.

      DAN: (contining) Once I say this, you can counter, "Yes, but what if
      'that' is in thought, is in all thought, and thought is everything." But
      what is it that isn't said by either of us - what is it that can't be
      countered, that has no opposite, and therefore no position?

      SKYE: Life itself dan, getting out there and living and loving here and
      now. THAT is what has no opposition.

      Thread: "Glo/Remove the truth"



      RAMANA: "Similarly we have simply
      to throw out all the age-long samskaras [innate tendencies] which are
      inside us. When all of them have been given up, the Self will shine
      JODY: I would amend the above thus:
      When identification with the samskaras has been revealed and overcome,
      the Self will shine alone.

      The point I'm trying to make is that samskaras will continue to exist
      after Moksha has occurred. It isn't the samskaras themselves that get in
      the way, it is the identification with the samskaras that occlude.

      GLO: If only this would work with my diet. I have disidentified with
      those damn fat calories and still the little buggers do their worst! :)
      Reality triumphs whether I identify with it or not. Amend that!
      Some things do in fact have to be given up.. it's a bummer is what it
      is. Glo

      DAN: Give up....everything? Now that would be a hell of a diet.

      GLO: Yeah, it was a silly example.. diet happens to be on my "to do
      list." I admit I'd love to find a "weasel clause".. who wouldn't? And
      not to say that is what jody is doing and I don't know exactly how jody
      really means "only disidentify"...but still I would find it difficult to
      know I had even begun to disidentify with my innate tendencies without
      some sort of "Reality" check. Self deception itself being one of those
      very innate tendencies. It's a tricky business this giving up. .. and
      I'm in no place to be amending Ramana myself. Sometimes tho, the Self
      does seem to shine through no matter what..and for that I am grateful.

      What exactly are all these samskaras?? My understanding of untruth
      undergoes constant remodeling.

      DAN: Thanks for sharing this, Glo.
      Words of wisdom, ringing true,
      As truth, presented without
        obligation to support
       existing beliefs.
      Especially this part rings very true:
      "It is false to speak of realisation. What is there to realise? The real
      is as it is always. We are not creating anything new or achieving
      something which we did not have before."

      Once an illustration is provided, we have a picture. A picture is simply
      to help the mind form an image. The image will be discarded, perhaps for
      another image,
        perhaps for no image when the mind releases itself from its

      Once explained, something has been added. The explanation is for the
      mind, to give it direction -
        until it releases itself from its need for explanations,
      hypotheses, proofs.
      What is Alone, stands Alone, without explanation, cause, proof, or path.
      Reality with no second.

      To add anything just gives one more thing to be taken away :-)

      As the real Alone is, talk about realizing it is deluded. As the real
      Alone is, belief in lacking something is deluded. As the real Alone is,
      belief in needing to get something is deluded.

      Thread: "who am I"


      "The shallow "I" of individualism can be possessed, developed,
      cultivated, pandered to, satisfied : it is the center of all our
      strivings for gain and satisfaction, whether material or spiritual. But
      the deep "I" of the spirit, of solitude and of love, cannot be "had,"
      possessed, developed, perfected. It can only be, and act according to
      deep inner laws which are not of man's contriving, but which come from
      God. They are the Laws of the Spirit, who, like the wind, glows where He
      wills. This inner "I," who is always alone, is always universal : for in
      this inmost "I" my own solitude meets the solitude of every other man
      and the solitude of God. Hence it is beyond division, beyond limitation,
      beyond selfish affirmation.  

      JOHN: I bow to You all my brothers and sisters who *are* this undivided
      Self... Thanks for sharing That which points to transcending mere
      contrivance. love,

      Thread: "The Pope's Apology to the Gnostics"


      Ed Note: Yeah, i would like to read the whole thing, too. Surely on list
      of "we apologize for" is Sister Mary Elizabeth who taught third grade at
      St. Ailbe's in Chicago, back in 193_, and wielded one mean ruler on
      heretic hag.

      JOHN: Does anyone on the list know if the Pope's recent apology is
      posted somewhere on the internet???
                Recently saw posted on a newsgroup an
      excerpt from the Pope's recent apology which contained the following:

      Vatican City, 3.15.00, 8:00 AM [Associated Press] -- In a dramatic move
      today, Pope John Paul II, addressing the planet's Roman Catholic
      population via live satellite broadcast from his specially equipped
      popemobile, apologized to "gnostics and heretics" the world over for the
      "terrible sins of persecution and repression" carried out against "our
      heterodox brethren in Christ."

      "Theodosius was wrong to pass laws which made heresy a capital crime,"
      said the octegenarian Master of Caremonies,.......

      "The Holy Roman Emperor should never have stamped out such groups as the
      Carpocratians, Barbelognostics, Sethians, Archontics, Phibionites,
      Valentinians and Basilideans. What good is the body of Christ without an
      arm, a thumb or a nose?"

      The aging pope also sharply criticized heresiological saints Irenaeus
      and Hippolytus, vowing to "investigate this fraud whereby narrow-minded
      censors are canonized in defiance of reason and common decency."

      Ed Note: Woooeeee....


      _______________________________________THE THREE ANSWERS:
      Go Anywhere.
      Do Nothing.
      Love Everybody.
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