Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.


Expand Messages
  • andrew macnab
    Message 1 of 1 , Mar 6, 2000

      So many impossible conditions before you can know what you are?
      So many sanscrit terms that make seem realization exotic and far off?
      So many concepts of samadhi this and samadhi that?
      So many judgements on other people and how they try to express
      their discovery of the inexpressible?
      So much mental activity about the uselessness of mental activity?
      So many ideas of how you must be perfect before knowing perfection?


      This empty awareness between your thoughts is you ..... now ......

      Namaste means, you are eternal stillness as am I.



      Join Harshasatsangh:

      The Cosmos is our Website! :--).

      You are invited to join HarshaSatsangh.
      We are not perfect. Just the next best thing to it!
      If you are looking for fellowship
      in the context of mutual respect, amity, humor (lots of that) and goodwill,
      HarshaSatsangh may be right for you.
      Come to where the Siddhas roam and Jnanis play.
      We hand out Enlightenment by the bundle.


      Melody, introducing a new list:

      "HeartWalk" is a space made ready for the Heart....
      a space supported in love....where one can begin
      to look inward at one's own abyss....into one's
      own fears....into one's deepest nature. A place
      where once can begin dropping the armor of
      self preservation....the armor that inhibits the freedom
      to live a life of love.

      As I have heard it described, this list is not a place
      of psychotherapy, bit it IS a place of deep listening.
      It is not a place for being attacked, but it is a place
      where ego and old limiting belief systems may be
      challenged. It is not a place for blaming 'others',
      but IS a place for taking responsibility.

      And so this clear pool of ours is moderated. It is
      moderated in the sense that there will be lifeguards
      present - not to 'save' someone from drowning, but
      to remove from the water those swimmers whose
      movements are so intrusive as to impede the movements
      of others.

      Whether you come with a heart that knows freedom, or
      come with a heart that yearns to know love, we invite you
      to share this space with us.

      To subscribe, go to:

      or send a blank email to:

      Dave Manchine and Greg Goode:

      Greg wrote:
      So -- sensory modalities, biology, physics, thoughts, information,
      external objects, all that stuff. We do science with it. But how can
      any of it be any more or less real than any of the rest?

      Manchine wrote:

      It's all real, although within a limited perception, and I can't stress the vital
      importance of that simple statement. If you see that the physical is false, you are
      perhaps loosing the most important clue as to what it is there for, as to why we are.
      So what is spiritual quest? The search of tranquility by ignoring? Don't think so.


      You make a good point - there are perceptions that take all this stuff as
      real. And it can be the ultimate cop-out, putting one's head in the sand,
      to blithely say none of it's real. Often this is accompanied by
      self-indulgent or hurtful behavior. I'm sorry if I gave you this kind of
      impression, I don't want to. This was a kind of metaphysical topic with
      Roger, not everyday talk. I was using the "real/unreal" distinction the
      way they do in advaita vedanta - real is said to be permanent and
      independent; unreal is said to be transitory and dependent on something
      else. The purpose of our being here? How's this -- to find the Self,
      which is Love, and then to celebrate and love each other and all things as
      instances of that Self.

      "The physical as false?" Funny you should mention that. I'll tell you a
      story about something that happened to me. In my case, the beliefs and
      experiences related to the physical realm fell away about 18 years ago,
      long before I knew anything about spiritual or mystical life. In the early
      80's, I took a graduate seminar in George Berkeley. He's the guy who
      argued persuasively against the external, independent existence of physical
      objects. The popular tagline about Berkeley is this -- he's the guy who
      said that if a tree in the forest falls and there's no one to hear it, it
      doesn't make a sound. Our professor was a world-class Berkeley scholar and
      not a fair grader -- to get a good grade in the seminar, we had to write
      papers only in favor of Berkeley!! And his arguments were not what I'd
      call intuitive (though he is one of the most engaging philosophical
      stylists in the English language).

      So we read and read and read. Long story short, there was a
      transformational point where physical objects lost once and for all their
      sense of externality and reality and heaviness and solidity. Including my
      own body. In 18 years or so, objects have never regained these qualities
      for me. Objects seemed and felt like they were made fully and completely
      of idea-stuff, appearances to mind, and not separate from me. (Back then I
      thought I *was* the mind.) I would ride a bike or learn to rollerblade in
      the city, lift weights, do bodybuilding. Yes I would avoid cars and
      trucks, and set the barbells down carefully. But there was no real
      separation between my body and other objects. Physical actions now had the
      feeling of lightness and clarity and insubstantiality of ideas. This
      includes physical pain, illness, injury, all of which stopped feeling like
      they were happening to me or my body, but rather just arising as an
      interplay of idea-stuff.

      Now non-dualism has some *intellectual* teachings on this, but no way for
      it to work into experience unless a large enough "Shift Happens." A few
      years ago I was delighted and intrigued to encounter a Kashmir Shaivist
      form of yoga which cultivats the same kind of experience of the world....

      With love,


      John Metzger sent:

      The true men of old
      Knew no lust for life,
      No dread of death.
      Their entrance was without gladness,

      Their exit, yonder,
      Without resistance.
      Easy come, easy go.
      They did not forget where from,

      Nor ask where to,
      Nor drive grimly forward

      Fighting their way through life.
      They took life as it came, gladly ;

      Took death as it came, without care ;

      And went away, yonder,

      They had no mind to fight Tao.
      They did not try, by their own contriving,

      To help Tao along.
      These are the ones we call true men.

      Minds free, thoughts gone
      Brows clear, faces serene.
      Were they cool? Only cool as autumn.
      Were they hot? No hotter than spring.

      All that came out of them
      Came quiet, like the four seasons.

      The Way of Chuang Tzu translated by Thomas Merton

      I like this because here in Kentucky us hillbillies use the term yonder quite
      a bit, e.g.,"I'm goin' over yonder to see Sally Jo". John

      r clarke introduces herself (or himself) with a poem:

      Not body
      Not senses,
      Not prajna,
      Not mind,
      Not personality,
      Not ego,
      But Self, only Self.

      No separation, nothing to gain or lose,
      Only Self, full and complete.

      Who am I?
      Who is asking?
      Realize this and the many cease.
      Only the One remains.
      That One is Self,
      The Self that you are right now.

      Realize this Knowledge.
      Let it fill you
      The One is all that is.

      Another big post from Gene with Kristi and Marcia, ascending spiral, shocks and

      Hi Kristi... you wrote:

      > Dear Gene:
      > Well said. Thank you. It is perfectly descriptive of the bouncing back and
      > forth I see myself go through. Being aware of the process doesn't always
      > make it easier while you're in it.....but I think it does insure that each
      > session with de-compression effectively sculpts away some material.
      > Love, Kristi

      Gene: Thank you, Kristie. I definitely hear you. I agree, awareness
      of this process does not always make it easier. Consider this:

      Almost any person can enroll in a conditioning program, with the goal
      of becoming a star athlete, but even with extensive conditioning, the
      performance of the athletic event is always a challenge; knowing
      this, a competent athlete is 'always in training'. The star athlete
      knows that there is never an end to the challenge, and so stays in
      condition by constant training.

      Athletic conditioning sculpts muscle onto the body, just as our
      internal processes of self-inquiry sculpt unnecessary bulk out of
      self, as you point out above. In both cases, the motto can be: "It
      never ends". There is no 'stopping point', no point at which athletic
      training or self-inquiry 'succeeds'. It is the point of the doing of
      the work, which is the enabling factor. The work itself, enables
      better and better work to be done.

      Please see my comments to Marcia (below), for a discussion of the
      'bouncing back and forth' which you mention above.


      >Hi Gene,

      >Good post. I have a few comments.

      Gene: Hi Marcia...

      Thanks. I reply to your comments:

      > Gene: I have discovered that the information which remains with us,
      > as the result of wounding (most especially when we are children) is
      > indeed in the forms that Xan and Marcia point out; sounds, words,
      > images, and body sensations. However (and this is a big however!),
      > this residual information of wound, is stored in a _compressed
      > format_.


      >Wouldn't you say that everyone is "wounded". I mean as children we
      are born as pure essence but pure essence is just too vulnerable and
      also just not capable of living in the world. I mean some skills are needed
      and so forth and so some limiting and structuring has to take place.

      Gene: Yes, well spoken. Gaining skills, structure, and becoming
      tolerant of limiting are needed, and are properly gained in the
      'first round' of life. After coming full-circle, a person is then
      able to live in the world as 'pure essence'. If we are open and
      self-actuating, coming 'full-circle' allows us to jump up to the
      next-highest circle; if this is repeated, our movement describes a
      _spiral_, with each successive circle smaller than that last. In this
      process, a 'lifetime' of learning is accomplished in less time than
      each previous cycle.

      This could be compared to 'riding on the tonal harmonic', starting
      from the lowest (frequency) note, up the scale, to begin again on the
      same note, but at a higher frequency, from 'Doh' to 'Doh'.

      (Note about above: Some have compared/described this process as
      'dying while living' or a 'being reborn without dying'; it is akin to
      the concept of reincarnation/metempsychosis, but it takes place
      during one physical lifetime.)

      >M: So even in the best of environments some files just have to be zipped
      just like in a computer to save space etc. So the word wounding has
      a negative connotation and perhaps should but if we had real teachers
      then there would still be a need for ___________ which would
      be to help us organize and use our minds.

      Gene: Yes, agreed. Personally, I advocate unending intellectual
      self-discipline based in unending self-observation. Rather than being
      a fetish or predeliction, this 'way' literally empowers me. See more

      > Non-wound information is stored in uncompressed format; we have the
      > ability to easily access and endlessly ruminate this non-compressed
      > information. Most of what is shared here, is in non-compressed format.


      >In some ways this "stuff" is more destructive than wounding material
      as it just floats around totally distracting and causing us to just go
      from one association to the next. There needs to be taught a method
      of cleaning this stuff up or deleting it or ranking it as to it's value.

      Gene: Absolutely! Unfortunately, our cultural fetish of 'casualness'
      leads people astray. A 'master' is seen as someone who can proceed
      casually, and brilliantly succeed. This is a false interpretation of
      mastery. Mastery implies and requires constant vigilance and _work_;
      even then, mastery does not guarantee any particular success. Mastery
      does, however, make one expert in _working_; each cycle of work leads
      to the next cycle being accomplished with more grace. Up the scale we

      > Psyche reacts by stuffing (archiving) information which threatens identity.
      > The chief characteristic of these stuffed archives of wound-data, is
      > that *although* they are available for our access, they 'play back'
      > at such a tremendous speed, that they are literally incomprehensible
      > to the conscious mind. As they play back in us (usually experienced
      > as an undesired event in itself), the speed of the playback induces a
      > physical vertigo; this is often experienced as a 'veritable blow' to
      > oneself.


      >This "blow" could be a wake-up call. The taste of this shock could
      cause one to make an internal "stop". As one's internal mechanism
      is all primed to play the "victim" for instance one could say...."Whoa,
      hold the horses," before plunging head long into some form of the
      blame game.

      Gene: Yes! Each 'blow' is indeed a potential boost... it is like
      'free energy' for us to ride on, if we can but take it that way. Each
      blow/shock can enable us to actuate our well-practiced vigilance and
      work; in fact, each shock is potentially a doorway into a much
      friendlier 'dimension'. I feel that it is important to grasp this
      concept of 'shock' being taken as a 'free energy boost'. Rather than
      detuning oneself to reduce sensitivity to shock, one can tune oneself
      to increase sensitivity to shock, for the purpose of riding the
      sequence of shocks, much as a skilled surfer can ride a 'killer'
      wave. Each 'wipeout' is in fact, another shock. The opportunities
      for self-directed (consciously navigated) movement never end!

      Kristie mentions 'bouncing back and forth'; I equate this to the
      effect of being the 'ping-pong ball' that is being swatted between
      two cosmically-large 'paddles'... wow, a free ride! The pattern of
      'shock-shock-shock-shock-shock-shock' (sounds like ping-pong, eh?) is
      our escalator, if we choose to use it that way. The 'trick' to making
      this experience profitable, is to jump up a level after each shock,
      so that instead of an experience of endless repetition of the 'same
      old thing', it becomes instead, a launching into a new dimension of
      more effective 'doing', and a refinement of the technique of
      'working'. Onward and upward, so to speak...

      >M: How many times do I have to do and say and believe the same
      old story? Have I been here and done this before?

      Gene: Let us compress that file: Filename {poor_me.ego}.

      > Exposure to this instant/incomprehensible information _again_
      > threatens identity; shockingly instantaneous feelings of
      > _depersonalization_ occur, along with a cascade of emotions and the
      > concurrent physiological flooding of the brain with the neurohormonal
      > byproducts of psychological association.
      > During high-speed playback, compressed data-files deposit or inject
      > certain _subliminal_ cues; these cues prompt emotional reaction of
      > _desire_ and _aversion_. Although the specifics of the information of
      > wound are still unseen, the consequence of triggering the instant yet
      > incomprehensible playback of this compressed data, may be experienced
      > as _violence_.


      >This is why being able to stay aware in my body is vital. I can feel
      the neurological changes and know that feeling inside out of having
      my buttons pushed and know that an old tape is being played again
      and again and again. It is stored in the body, laid down in the
      neurological systems.

      Gene: Yes. We are 'given' integrated systems 'purposefully', and
      maintaining integration is very important. That is why I caution
      against the idealistic delusion that one part of our 'system' is more
      important than any other part. If we cut it, we can't cut it.

      Yes, the 'old tapes' are always on-tap. It is useful to remember that
      below these personally acquired 'tapes', is a vast library of
      impersonal tapes. This low-level 'tape library' is the
      reference-source for our biological survival, and also holds the
      templates for our possible expansion during this lifetime. There is
      nothing new 'under the sun', and the 'inner guru' is the one who
      plays all of those tapes at the appropriate moment. This means that
      everyone 'has it all'; it is 'attitude' which determines the
      difference between a closed circle and a spiral...

      > The skilled psychotherapist can actuate the 'algorithm of
      > decompression', to allow the real-time playback of the information of
      > wound. A human system which is capable of compressing and archiving
      > information, is also capable of uncompressing that information.
      > Uncompressed, the information of wound is available for real-time
      > rumination.
      > Yet, it remains unaccessible to the conscious mind. Searching the
      > memory for significant points of attachment may trigger high-speed
      > playback; the vertigo, the 'blow' to oneself, and the concurrent
      > feelings of aversion and desire, serve as a punishing conditioning to
      > keep us OUT of our own information-archives.


      >With developed attention and a desire to know the truth of how
      things are as distinct from how we wish they might be it is
      possible to bear the suffering of knowing the truth. But there
      has to be more than just a desire to see how things are cause
      that can end up as a self-improvement kind of thing. It is more
      than just about "me" and that is the ultimate "blow". That all
      the "wounding" is nothing anyway.

      Gene: Agreed. Please consider: As you define the 'ultimate blow' as
      being the realization that it is 'more than just about me', so I
      define the ultimate blow as being the realization that 'It is just
      about me'. These can be the two, cosmically large 'paddles' which
      provide the ultimate in free ride (once we have worked for and gotten
      our 'ticket to ride', that is!). Here is how I see it:

      Big_shock: 'It is more than just about me" (other) and (not-me)

      Big_shock: "It is just about me" (self) (me) and (Self)

      Becomes sequence: Self/other/self/other/self/other/self/other...
      (speeding up now) ... self-other-self-other-self-other... (transforms
      to) self other-self... [leading to realization and actuality of]
      self-as-other (and) other-as-self (to) 'The I that is We'.... Self.

      All who can speak 'I', I Am.




      > 'Attachment to outcome' is what underlies every strategy; to let go
      > of attachment to outcome, allows the falling away of strategizing as
      > a way of Being. Releasing strategy sets us up to free-fall into Self,
      > with no 'escape route' or 'back door' retained 'just in case'. This
      > _radical_ release of attachment is without penalty, yet, it is the
      > most difficult of all acts to perform. To perform this act, requires
      > practice of abiding, carried out as a 'walking meditation' 24 hours
      > per day, 7 days per week. It is when we finally realize that our
      > reality is our own, that we are able to own our reality; it is at
      > this point, that resentment, blame, and revenge lose their powerful
      > grip on our selves.


      >I agree but this process in itself will release a tremendous amount of
      energy and unless you have something to do with it you will end up
      in worse straights than before. This is where right use comes in.

      Gene: Yes. The dilemma of the unexpected or undisciplined experiencer
      of 'Kundalini' is a perfect example. Hypomania can result; the
      inexperienced/unitiated tend to lose identity and then panic when all
      of what was is, is suddenly unknown. Yes, I agree; right use is to be
      applied, all along the way. Can you say something about this?

      Thanks, Marcia...

      ==Gene Poole==





      Michael Read calling:

      Here I sit in the wastelands of Portland feeling like a lone little
      non-dualist. Thinking about going to the Living Enrichment Center 11
      am services. Thinking about not going to the services.

      They talk about god there. The basic premise is that all 6 billion
      people on the planet are just manifestations of god. The vibration
      however, is separate. God is other, still, somehow. I sense this
      basic feeling of separateness in the good people worshipping there.
      As most of them come from the various christian sects - this makes

      As for me - HAHAHAH and HOHOHO! I no longer believe in god. Jesus
      is/was not a saviour/messiah and buddha is/was not a lord. There is
      no thing that is divine or holy. There is no thing that is evil or
      corrupt. All is one. ALL IS BEAUTY.

      I am starting to realize that what we call god is merely a
      manifestation of mind. Samhadi is an emotional state brought on by
      meditation, happenstance, drugs, fasting or luck :-)- nothing more.
      Oh yes I experience the bliss. Somehow it does not seem like an end,
      more it seems like a means to something else.

      Me at the age of 15 staying up all night asking the universe (called
      it god then) why, Why, WHY! Why does anything exist at all? The
      answer was music and bliss flowing through me! :-) Driving along and
      hearing a voice telling me to 'be out of your body now' and exiting
      out of the top of my head, growing to about 50 feet tall. Realizing
      that I was not behind the wheel Reaching down to guide the car around
      the corner like it was a toy. Hearing the voice say, 'not bad, ok you
      can go back into your body now.'

      Me as a youngster of 20 something. Having dreams and visions -
      questing after the answer. Going to India to see the guru maharaji -
      self proclaimed lord of the universe - now just another 'divine' con

      Ah India! Powers manifesting in me. Miracles abounding. More on this
      another time! HAHAHAH and HOHOHOHO!

      Me as a 50 something. Last year - mother dying - dead in April.
      Joining a chi kung study group with my best friend in May/June.
      Leaving that mini-cult in December! [-) Losing my friendship. Gaining
      my senses back.

      Seeking to know the ANSWER like my hair was on fire! Awakening!
      :-)Hearing voices and seeing visions. Knowing oneness, seeing

      Awakening! Like a chick out of its shell. Like a tadpole dreaming.
      Like a caterpillar eating. What is next?

      So. Does anybody know of any non-dualist realizer satsangers here in
      the greater Portland, OR area? I sure could use some company! :-)


      Peace - Michael

      Dan near and far:

      Farther than the edge of the universe,
      closer than this breath

      To know, unknow.
      To be, be not.
      To see, open to darkness

      One inch of time
      leaves room for a million years
      of "progress".

      My end result is my beginning,
      where will destiny "stick"?

      There is no resolution here.
      There is no meaning here.
      Resolve not to resolve;
      Mean not to be meaningful.

      Untangle by having no process.
      Build the universe by
      having no structure.
      Have your essence by
      releasing your foundation.



      4 days ago,
      'III' past,
      two worlds,
      one line.

      Is a word.
      Is an Action.

      Choice is no different
      to me.
      Than to You.

      I takes everything
      we are, each
      Melody in every
      Skye, only Love,
      in My Heart.

      Each day,
      Each occurrence,
      Any nuance,
      same, connected.

      Is not where we
      look. freeheart
      is Blind.

      I am as human
      as the innocent
      babe. I suggest
      we all are.

      How can I help?
      Is not That
      which is in front of us?

      Polite Words,
      still not my Heart.
      The Heart wants more,
      and so shall receive.

      Locked in each of
      us, Fear.
      Each of us to
      Kali calls Time.

      Even Now,
      I see Her Work.
      Can you see Yours?


      Part IV:

      Theirs is a Grace.
      She awaits us.

      Patient, like the

      Humble, as the
      swift mourning Dove.

      Each in turn,
      One by One.

      It is afternoon,
      I have read the morning's
      posts, Melody, skye, dave.
      A letter from poet Gen.

      I sit in underwear and
      my unpaid for NDS gray
      Caught Between:
      half typing
      these word's,
      half living

      My most Glorious Wife,
      now in the bedroom, and
      my Youngest Son, John Lucas,
      the two of them cooing,
      in Tiger Tones like wild

      The light in my Heart,
      at this moment, is Greatest,
      connected, in Family, with
      you all.

      I am simply attempting
      to speak about my life.
      No witty metaphors,
      No stain upon the

      I am a carpenter,
      twice married,
      many children
      around that I

      I do dream of
      Being God.

      My Heart explodes
      at That.

      And if It was for
      me, as I have said here...

      I would not leave
      my family.

      I would not leave
      my Heart.

      The 'call' Roars,
      Such Thunderous Falls
      Niagara, walking

      One foot on a wet
      wooden gangplank,
      a thin railing
      resisting sure Death.

      Do not understand Him,
      Run when you see His face!
      > If you see him walking, there's
      > only one thing to do -
      > Immediately walk on -- whenever
      > he's spotted, the road is clear.
      What do these words mean,
      to us?

      Tiger Roars!

      Did you hear It?

      Who even cares?

      In all this verbiage,
      present, i only wish
      to share my real story.
      Who could do any more,
      than to be Present,
      amongst such Ones?

      I would bore my wise friends,
      by going on about
      how difficult it is
      to write presently.

      Yet fully taken by this Love,
      how could I Not?

      Asking permission in
      this particular Venue,
      is redundant.
      We are Mostly All Here.
      Lablelessly Here.:-)

      The Teacher is always

      The Fountain constantly
      re-orders itself.

      The Youth hold the Promise,
      of their Elders.

      We are.

      *Enough for now, love,
      freeheart/ eric/ ...tom smith,
      makes no difference!

      beautiful sunday,
      here in the midwest :-)

      Something from Sarlo:

      My master Osho answered a question of mine in which, among other things, he
      addressed an impediment to awakening both specific (mine) and universal
      (most everybody else's).

      My question is rendered in caps:

      Celebrate now. Sing, dance, love, be.
      Because you cannot trust me, that's why. You cannot trust me. I go on
      declaring that you are Buddhas, already enlightened, but you are sceptical
      about it. You can believe -- that too very grudgingly -- that a Gautam
      Buddha may have become enlightened, maybe, perhaps. A Jesus became
      enlightened, maybe. You can grudgingly concede that much, but to concede
      that you are enlightened is too much. You cannot give such a gift to
      yourself; you are so against yourself, you are so condemnatory towards
      yourself. You can immediately accept it if somebody says that you are a
      sinner. Just think of it; if somebody says you are a sinner, you are ready
      to bow down. Even if on the surface you deny it, deep down you know that he
      is right because from the very beginning you have been taught -- you have
      been poisoned -- that you are a sinner. The teaching has gone into your
      very blood and bones and marrow; it has become part of you that 'you are a
      sinner'. All the religions of the world have been teaching this; for
      centuries, generations upon generations have been doing only one work:
      condemning man.

      Love, Sarlo
    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.