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Highlights for Wednesday, Feb 23

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  • Melody
    DAN and XAN: Dan: There is only Truth and that which is distortion of Truth. Once there is seeing of Truth, there is natural resting in Truth. Distortion
    Message 1 of 1 , Feb 25, 2000
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      DAN and XAN:

      Dan:

      There is only Truth and that which is distortion
      of Truth. Once there is seeing of Truth,
      there is natural resting in Truth.
      Distortion burns away by itself.
      There is no need to fight against the
      needs of a "small self".
      There is only resting in the Truth that has
      no separate selves.

      Xan:

      ~"Fighting against" the small self
      could only be done by the small self.
      Shadow boxing.

      Seeing the truth is not the same
      as resting in truth.
      Surrender into resting is
      noticing where there is holding on
      and stopping.

      Dan:

      To end a shadow requires
      ending the light that creates the shadow.
      Why try to end a shadow when it means
      ending the light?
      The shadow and light are a dance, a oneness.

      Light and shadow are Light.
      My experience, and what I've
      learned from friends as well,
      is that it is difficult feelings
      that drive an attempt to escape and
      evade.
      What you call the "gratification hungry self" is
      merely an image arising from an
      attempt to evade feeling lonely, nonexistent or empty.
      There is no small self to give up,
      only a mirage created by an attempt
      to control what is uncomfortable.
      Resting in Original Awareness is
      all. Nothing else is needed.
      If holding on is noticed, then it is noticed.
      There is nothing to do about it.
      Doing nothing is being Original Awareness.
      Doing nothing is the only "work", and it is play,
      like shadows dancing on a wall.
      Shadows dance on the wall as the flame
      flickers.
      Light and shadow - one dance.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      JERRY writes to DAN:

      In a post I installed on the home page of the website last
      week, you said in regard to Satsang as led by Arjuna or
      Gangaji (the entire post is included):

      "My perception: easy answers don't appeal.
      Neither do complex answers.
      Only questions that deepen until
      questioning turns into something else...
      silent reverberating beyond questions or answers.
      And this yet deepens..."

      No doubt some of us are running around with 'answers', with
      lingo, and with highs from attending Satsang. Phil Servedio
      has a lengthy story that culminates in a significant meeting
      with Arjuna, described in detail, in which questions turn
      into that 'something else' or the shattering that you speak
      of. It's the first story on Laura's site:

      http://www.realization.org

      Satsang, I've noticed, goes hand in hand with weekend
      intensives and personal meetings, so encounters with Arjuna,
      Gangaji and the gang are not merely as superficial and
      formal as Satsang. Satsang is nothing more than an
      introduction, a sales pitch, I've learned, though apparently
      transformations may occur at Satsang.

      Some teachers, such as Rob Rabbin, skip the Satsang and
      proceed directly to weekend intensives and personal
      meetings.

      I tend to think that these Satsang teachers don't only want
      to give a nondual terminology or to apply a brightly colored
      kids Band-Aid over dark wounds. I do feel their can somehow
      lead to breakthrough, a shattering, and a whole new round of
      drinks to be ordered. However, yes, Satsang can look flaky.

      DAN responds:

      Thanks for your input on this.
      And I'm glad I said something you found useful.

      As for teachers, intensives, breakthroughs,
      encounters, lingo, enlightenment, band-aids...
      I don't know what to make of any of it. I'm not
      even trying at this point.

      Everything goes its own way...

      Doris Day is my guru, "que sera, sera"...


      JERRY responds:

      I was once walking in Beverly Hills back in the 60's, I
      turned a corner and nearly got run over by Doris Day riding
      a bicycle on the sidewalk. She had to swerve and said
      'Sorry'. If she'd hit me and it were the litigious 80's or
      90's, I'd be rich and famous today.

      Anyway, I just did a major update of my What is Nondualism
      webpage, adding some 30 'definitions', some of which are
      yours, Dan.

      On this page you and others will re-visit your Ivan's, your
      Slackeaux's, your Toon's, your Raven McClouds, as well a
      bunch of us when we were younger and crazier, or saner,
      perhaps. Your John Bird's, your Max's, your Modesty
      Blaize's, and more. It's a trip to the past and new
      'definitions' are always welcome.

      http://www.nonduality.com/whatis.htm

      I really enjoyed doing this. It's been a while since I've
      worked on a web page. I was watching the movie Rushmore and
      the main character, when asked about his success at simply
      being the extreme person he was, offered: "Find out what you
      like to do best and do it for the rest of your life."

      How many of us are doing that? I've notified my employer
      that I want to work part time and will start in March. I
      hope it signals a push of Nonduality Salon to heightened
      activity and a wilder independence.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      GREG, JODY and XAN:

      Greg:
      I enjoyed your careful distinction of (a) the fulfillment of psychological
      needs from (b) self-realization. And I'm happy to make the acquaintance of
      someone like you who can speak with the experience of seeking (a) in
      satsang contexts and not finding it!! Ever since the first satsang I ever
      went to, I have been noticing very much the same thing in fellow attendees
      - desperately seeking fulfillment.

      Jody:
      And it makes perfect sense they would do so in the context of a satsang.
      A parental figure (usually) leads a group in instruction. Getting the
      approval of this figure is the aim of those seeking confirmation. There
      is nothing wrong with the wanting approval part, it's where they are
      trying to get it that ends up being the problem.


      Greg:
      Ironically enough, one thing that
      dissuades folks from undertaking psychological work is that it gets a
      pretty bad rap in satsangs!! But it is a real, and really important need.

      Jody:
      Psychological work is *all* we can do until we get realized. Anything
      termed spiritual practice is psychological by default until realization
      has occurred.

      I am a member of the Vedanta Society. Their swamis eschew psychology.
      It is plain ignorance and cultural misapprehension that causes them
      to do so. The plain fact is that swamis and other spiritual teachers
      should send their students to therapy *first* and then begin to work
      with them as spiritual apprentices.

      My sadhana has been one big lifelong therapy session. I've been
      assisted by a really good therapist, a sweet and unassuming guru,
      and the grace of Mother Shakti. It was all about finding inner
      acceptance. The outer acceptance, while nice, just didn't do
      it for me. Self acceptance is one of the most important pre
      conditions that a spiritual aspirant can establish.

      Greg:
      In fact, from conversations with many, many people, both on the
      e-mail-electronic-verse and in satsang contexts (on both sides, like your
      case :-) ), I've come to see something that I just didn't know at first....
      That is, most people, if they somehow had a clearly-explained choice
      between psychological fulfillment and self-realization, would prefer the
      former. In fact, some people seek realization *in order to achieve*
      psychological fulfillment. One lady told me that she wanted to be
      enlightened so that she could have a non-dysfunctional relationship with
      men!

      Jody:
      I wanted to be the first enlightened person among my peer group, as
      I thought it would gain their acceptance of me. I believe it to be
      exceedingly common that many come to Advaita seeking an out from their
      personal problems. Advaita itself cannot provide the solution, but the
      work of honest and fearless self investigation can, and will when the
      aspirant is courageous and sincere.

      Xan:

      ~ Yes, all forms of bullshit are welcome to satsang.
      Do you think there should be a pre-requisite of clarity
      of purpose before entering those doors?
      Fortunately there is satsang to confront delusions
      and petty goals and to share the good news of
      freedom from all that in Self.

      As I have heard it in satsang, psychological help is
      not given a bad rap, just the tendency to make it
      a way of life.

      Jody:

      Psychology *is* the way of life of a satsangi until he/she
      gets "It". Afterward one is able to understand experientially
      the difference between their psychological self and who
      they actually are.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      MARY:

      Hi everyone, I ran across this statement from A Course in Miracles :
      "...the essential thing is learning that you do not know." (T275/296)

      I thought I knew a little something when I joined this group and thought I
      may be able to contribute. After being with you all on the board, I've
      come to realize I really do not know anything anymore. Mary

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      LILIANA and JAN:

      Liliana:

      I do follow the Heart. But sometimes it means long yogic
      confinement and withdrawal from social interaction (until you
      find yourself in NDS :), of course, but this is quite a
      different story). And attachment to samadhis may be the
      necessary pull of the Heart in the "right direction" - when
      you are aware and witnessing the process, IMO. But then you
      are not really attached, I guess :)

      Jan:

      But isn't withdrawal from society in the Heart ?:) Then,
      "going places & doing things" doesn't make a difference...
      When Self-realization is accompanied by a powerful arousal of
      Kundalini, samadhis not only are unavoidable but it is found
      that they will happen irrespective of surroundings. There is
      nothing like that to destroy an eventual habit of meditating
      with closed eyes, confined to a closed room. The less
      conditioning there is, the less resistance to K., so the
      "ride" can be enjoyed. This is "crucial" for "liberation in a
      living body" (moksha). It is even more "crucial" to dissolving
      the "sheath of bliss" (anandamaya kosha).


      Liliana:

      I would like to dwell some more on the alternative of
      "community life" vs. "seclusion" and the examples of Gautama,
      Ramana, Nisargadatta in this respect but have to rush out. May
      be some other time.

      Jan:

      These days, "community life" is unimaginable as individuality
      is emphasized from birth on and turbo-boosted by all media. If
      humanity survives (not likely this time) perhaps a nice
      discussion over a couple of thousand years :) But Gautama's
      community must have been quite an intimate one as many
      householders "attained" nirvana, a feat the Internet, despite
      "free speech", won't achieve...

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      Xan:

      ~ There are only 2 things to do in awakening:
      Give attention to silent eternal awareness/beingness.
      See each pattern of false identity and let go.


      ROGER:

      Xan says "only two things":

      "seeing the false and letting go" does not appear to be the only way. For
      example, the 'false identity' can melt away in the expansive feeling of
      love.

      Or, if one has innate skill with energetics (laya/kundalini yoga) the rising
      of subtle energy can terminate the 'false identity'.

      Neither of these approaches requires 'seeing the false' in the traditional
      'neti-neti' or 'not this - not this' fashion.

      Also, there are many tantric sutras, one like: "On seeing the face (or
      keystrokes!?) of a long absent friend, permeate this joy". I think of many
      people here when I say "on seeing the keystrokes of an absent friend" !!

      IMHO "seeing the false" only works for a fraction of the people, others
      don't have the innate skill at that approach and are better off using one of
      the other equally valid approaches.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      also from ROGER:

      Seems to me "there is nothing to be done" describes a very advanced practice
      which most people cannot effectively utilize until after preparatory steps
      have been taken. And we all know how devious the mind/egoic attachment can
      be. "There is nothing to be done" could very well be used by a clever ego as
      fuel to preserve itself.

      DAN:

      D: The idea of trying to prevent the ego (a construct) from preserving
      itself could only be accomplished by a force intervening
      with the ego. Thus, a duality is constructed between ego and
      opposing force (whatever it is that wants to prevent the ego
      from being clever). My view is this: nonduality is - duality
      is subsumed. Nonduality is, only nonduality is. In this view,
      trying to second-guess one's statements to see if a clever ego
      is originating them would be seen itself as far too much
      cleverness :-) The extent of the cleverness involved suggests
      that ego is involved in trying to catch ego in its supposed cleverness.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      MARCIA:

      If something in me begins to notice that I am suffering in
      one form or another, instead of beginning to suffer about
      my suffering, it can become a springboard to wake up.
      Or if I am resting in pure awareness and I notice my
      attention beginning to wander, I again can use that
      friction or energy to wake up.

      I used to swim miles every week. When I reached the
      end of the pool I would push off as I turned around.
      It is like that. Using the contraction to push off from
      or separate from. Without the friction of the contraction
      there might not be enough energy to fuel the awakened
      state. Not sure about that but it seems that way to me.

      It is like a giant filter and the filtering itself is what keeps
      it all going. It is the observing itself which fuels the pure
      observing by digesting/eating the observations. It doesn't
      matter what they are but they have to be there or there
      would be no observing.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      ANDREW:

      It seems to me that I am my attention.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      TERRY quotes from the
      Mundaka Upanishad:

      Like two birds of golden plumage, inseparable companions, the individual
      self and the immortal Self are perched on the branches of the selfsame tree.
      The former tastes of the sweet and bitter fruits of the tree; the latter,
      tasting of neither, calmly observes.
      The individual self, deluded by forgetfulness of his identity with the
      divine Self, bewildered by his ego, grieves and is sad. But when he
      recognizes the worshipful Lord as his own true Self, and beholds his glory,
      he grieves no more.
      When the seer beholds the Effulgent One, the Lord, the Supreme Being,
      then, transcending both good and evil and freed from impurities, he unites
      himself with him.
      The Lord is the one life shining forth from every creature. Seeing him
      present in all, the wise man is humble, puts not himself forward. His
      delight is in the Self, his joy is in the Self, be serves the Lord in all.
      Such as he, indeed, are the true knowers of Brahman.
      This Effulgent Self is to be realized within the lotus of the heart by
      continence, by steadfastness in truth, by meditation, and by superconscious
      vision. Their impurities washed away, the seers realize him.
      Truth alone succeeds, not untruth. By truthfulness the path of felicity
      is opened up, the path which is taken by the sages, freed from cravings, and
      which leads them to truth's eternal abode.
      Brahman is supreme; he is self-luminous, he is beyond all thought.
      Subtler than the subtlest is he, farther than the farthest, nearer than the
      nearest. He resides in the lotus of the heart of every being.
      The eyes do not see him, speech cannot utter him, the senses cannot reach
      him. He is to be attained neither by austerity nor by sacrificial rites.
      When through discrimination the heart has become pure, then, in meditation,
      the Impersonal Self is revealed.
      The subtle Self within the living and breathing body is realized in that
      pure consciousness wherein is no duality - that consciousness by which the
      heart beats and the senses perform their office.
      Whether of heaven, or of heavenly enjoyments, whether of desires, or of
      objects of desire, whatever thought arises in the heart of the sage is
      fulfilled. Therefore let him who seeks his own good revere and worship the
      sage.
      The sage knows Brahman, the support of all, the pure effulgent being in
      whom is contained the universe. They who worship the sage, and do so without
      thought of self, cross the boundary of birth and death.
      He who, brooding upon sense objects, comes to yearn for them, is born
      here and there, again and again, driven by his desire. But he who has
      realized the Self, and thus satisfied all hunger, attains to liberation even
      in this life.
      The Self is not to be known through study of the scriptures, nor through
      subtlety of the intellect, nor through much learning. But by him who longs
      for him is he known. Verily unto him does the Self reveal his true being.
      The Self is not to be known by the weak, nor by the thoughtless, nor by
      those who do not rightly meditate. But by the rightly meditative, the
      thoughtful, and the strong, he is fully known.
      Having known the Self, the sages are filled with joy. Blessed are they,
      tranquil of mind, free from passion. Realizing everywhere the all-pervading
      Brahman, deeply absorbed in contemplation of his being, they enter into him,
      the Self of all.
      Having fully ascertained and realized the truth of Vedanta, having
      established themselves in purity of conduct by following the yoga of
      renunciation, these great ones attain to immortality in this very life; and
      when their bodies fall away from them at death, they attain to liberation.
      When death overtakes the body, the vital energy enters the cosmic source,
      the senses dissolve in their cause, and karmas and the individual soul are
      lost in Brahman, the pure, the changeless.
      As rivers flow into the sea and in so doing lose name and form, even so
      the wise man, freed from name and form, attains the Supreme Being, the
      Self-Luminous, the Infinite.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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