Dave Manchine asks: What is the 'me' for?
Here, on this list, there sometimes appear to be so many taboos or
linguistic/perceptual points of contention. Each contra-diction itself
being the arising position of 'me'.
It can appear to not be ok to be: a 'seeker'; to have 'beliefs'; to
mention God; to have hope; to have wounds; to speak of your heart; to
frame reality as inner/outer; to have a practice; to believe in free
will or mind; to have ideals; to think we are dual; to think at all....
All positions are undermined, as any position is seen as maintenance of
an appearance of self... the apparent ultimate illusion.
So.. what is the 'me' for?
Without a 'me'... would I enter any of the above dances? Would I know
the poles of duality in all their pleasures and sorrows? Without a 'me'
would I know the tensions of opposites which gives rise to the center
door which leads to expanding vibrant Stillness?
The vagaries of these injunctives can either invoke contracted 'me'
reactions... or... free 'me' once and for all.
Perhaps, the 'me' is here to be known and understood. Perhaps as a
consequence of understanding the dance of 'me', compassion for the many
facets, as other, is engendered. Perhaps, with compassionate openness we
simply become clear receptors in service to the arising and descending
Living Presence in this moment.
Perhaps, the 'me' is here.. to know and love 'you'... to love and serve
Why does one have to take driving lessons in order to drive
properly? Without these lessons, a lot of accidents could be
made. Likewise, the purpose of a "me" is learning to properly
take care of the body; when learning has ended the "me" is
supposed to be dissolved. Without a "me" feelings still are
but they do no longer belong to "me or others". The very
absence of the theme "me & the others" means Stillness just is
and one's sensitivity is greatly increased, enabling (live)
communication to be more effective. Regarding the issue
"enjoying life" one might say that life begins when "me"
ends... The weirdness of 'life with the "me"' couldn't be
demonstrated any better than on this planet: perhaps it serves
as THE example that when things go wrong with an intelligent
species (resulting in egocentric "me" life), it means the end
hope this helps :)
"isn't "me" also a thought? Joyce
It has been thought that the "I" didn't exist because there
doesn't remain any memory of it. In fact, this is a kind of
clue: emotional memory could be called its center and
emotional memory vanishes together with "I". For instance, for
some, visiting the dentist is a kind of mini-trauma: knowing
that in a few hours, the drill will be screaming its way
through one's teeth will cause side-effects like a change of
heart beat, perspiration and like to happen, although nothing
is happening yet :) This is impossible without a "me". One's
behavior will be so different (laughing, telling jokes etc.)
that fellow patients won't believe one is a patient...
I persist, what is the "me" for?
Did you get Jerry's (indirect) answer (Intention / Desire)?
The me is a necessary stepping stone across the river,
a baby self playing with childrens blocks and humanity will
eventually grow out of it *as we know it* at present.
The Self is One and many at the same time, but the baby self
naturally has had difficulty understanding that bigger
picture. It thinks there must be one or the other, that time
and timelessness cannot exist together, in fact togetherness
in any form is even a little too hard for it to understand,
so the me's on this planet are not very bright, at all.
And we wonder why they don't land *LOL* :-)))
Without a "me", there is no "I" and vice versa; although in
the course of events the "me" can become almost unreal, it
still remains as a potential. Regarding this and other
(veiling) potentials I used the analogy of enjoying a sunset,
standing with a burden of 200 lbs on one's back; when the
burden is removed, the enjoyment is more intense and less
restricted although the sunset doesn't change one bit. Because
the "feel" without that burden ("I") yet is so natural and
having felt the burden cannot be remembered anymore, the "new
heaven and new earth" is embraced without any thought or
analysis... Eventually this will become possible much later,
as the process of unidentifying is natural and will just go
on. This doesn't mean a kind of "nowhere land": one will
spontaneously understand the source of scriptures like
Upanishads, Bible etc. the moment the "I" is oblivion.
Although without properties, radiant Void/Self/impersonal God
was the "reference" all the time but *"I" and "my" feelings*
were obstructing :)
Explaining the inexplicable.
Some asked me why I asked this question, did I know
the answer. If I knew the answer I wouldn't be writing
So if 'I Am', is non-dual, is that, it is a feeling of
nonduality or oneness?
But Tony, "I AM" is neither a "feeling" nor an "experience." It is
For even the nondual 'I Am' state is duality for there
is yet another state, or rather non-state!
But "I AM" is also not a "state" either because it's not a "position"
that one can take.
"I AM" has no opposite. (e.g. "I am NOT.") It just is what It is.
Tony and Dave:
My thought again, is that if the little ego has gone
then effort is impossible. Therefore it is only
possible to drop the I Am and Bliss feeling, with the
Grace of the indwelling 'God with attributes'.
Om Namah Sivaya, Tony.
Close your eyes, and repeat that last paragraph whithout using a single word
or thought. Then slowly open your eyes without changing anything and move
into the image.
There have been several new additions to the Allspirit website,
which are listed on the 'recent changes'page.
A selection of Zen writings has been added, as well as new
poems from Rumi and Rabindranath Tagore.
This is for anyone who may feel that they are not enough just as they
are right now.
"You are Enough!"
A Woman Seminarian's Story
"It is not enough
said her father
get all A's each quarter
play Mozart for your kinfolk
win starred-first in contest
come home on your wedding night.
It is not enough
said her mother
smile at Auntie Lockwood
take cookies to the neighbors
keep quiet while I'm napping
cure my asthma.
It is not enough
said her husband
write letters to my parents
fix pumpkin pie and pastry
forget your name was Bauer
It is not enough
said her children
make us female brownies
tend our friends and puppies
buy us Nike tennies
let us kill you.
It is not enough
said her pastor
teach the second graders
change the cloths and candles
kneel prostrate at the altar
as long as there are starving children in the world
It is not enough
said her counselor
struggle with the demons
integrate your childhood
leave when time is over
clarify your poetic symbols
that you are
I give up
I am not enough
and laid down
into the deep blue pocket
her heart exploded
her breathing stopped
They came with stretcher
took her clothes off
covered her with linen
then went away'
and left her locked
in deep blue pocket tomb
The voice said
YOU ARE ENOUGH
YOU ARE ENOUGH
And the third day
she sat up
asked for milk and crackers
took ritual bath with angels
dressed herself with wings
and flew away.
(Nancy Ore, in Rosemary Radford Ruether's "Womanguides")
~~You are Enough. Just as you are. Perhaps if we just drop all the
ego's-antics analyzin', all the how-to-wake-up discussin', all the
self-improvement manuals in the commode, down the drain, flushed 'em
all, and just accepted all as it is - even the unacceptable, oh yes,
"Accept the Unacceptable," we would learn to fly! No, can't even use the
word "learn" - cause there is no learnin' - everything we have put into
that wondrous brain of ours drains out through the "You are Enough"
"God shatters all that is not Him!" the Sufis say.
Buddha had the idea: what do you think he was "doing" under that tree?
Jes sittin' - that's all. And ole Mara came along and threw all that
stuff at him about what he could "do"....jes like Jesus heard, "have
power," "seek sex" "brag" "invest in tech stocks" "lose weight" "fight
for that promotion" "use strips for your blackheads"...well, somethin'
like that, and Sidd ignored him, and just sat. And his big awakening was
to simply see things as they really are, right there, in front of his
nose. And IT was enough. HE was Enough. And so are WE. Enough.
That's what it seems to this ole woman, all those dudes who Made IT
learned: they were enough. And when they stopped seekin' to be more - or
less - when they stopped. Period. They began to live for the first time,
And every dern one of them had their wings pop out and were flyin' all
over the place.
"Not for this were my wings fitted." Plato.
It jes feels so damned good sometimes to remember how simple it all is.
love to all,
lalala...i love you jes the way you are...lalala
_________________________________________"The Three Answers: 'Go
Anywhere. Do Nothing. Love Everybody." Neem Karoli Baba/Amrita Nadi
A little excersize that might help! It's an excersize to help show you where
your thoughts start. Getting to know where they start can help you expand
the boundaries from non-thinking to thinking.
Go to an open public place, like a park for instance, one can't be shy about
these kinds of things. Close your eyes and quiet the mind, until you are
alone. Carefully and slowly open your eyes and move into the image. Don't
focus on anything, just feel the energies moving around you.
It's like dreaming, when you realize you are dreaming, you wake up, so at
first you won't even make it till you stand up. Don't worry. It's only an
Remember as Dan said,
The program of the body-mind is not only programmed to repeat, but to
"open". It opens when there is readiness. Readiness can't be forced, and
occurs naturally when
the time is right.
Photos from the trip to Santa Cruz with Judi, Gene,
Christiana and myself have been uploaded to the files
section of Onelist at
click on the folder named Four Fold Way. I also enjoyed the
most recent upload, which is by Freeheart (Eric and
The files section is now full. Additional photos have been
added to the EasyFoto website at
Enter 'umbada' where it says 'enter member name below' and
click on Visit Album'. To add new photos either send them to
me for uploading or, now that you're sick of looking at us,
start your own albums. It's easy and fun, just like nondual