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NDS digest for Tuesday, June 22

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  • Melody
    Nondual Digest - for Tuesday, June 22, 1999: To join the Nonduality Salon please go to Hi everyone, It has
    Message 1 of 1 , Jun 24, 1999
      Nondual Digest - for Tuesday, June 22, 1999:

      To join the Nonduality Salon please go to

      Hi everyone,

      It has been brought to my attention that
      there is some disappointment with my editing
      of discussions between individuals
      ....that one may be seen as asking a question
      in search of an answer, when, in fact the
      question was meant to be rhetorical.

      Often, I do choose to include the question,
      even though it may not have been *intended* as
      a question, simply to provide the context to what
      I deemed an interesting or insightful response.

      I will continue to include the 'questions', for
      the sake of clarity. However, from here foward,
      I will include them without attribution.

      I apologize for any discomfort my editing may
      have caused anyone. As always, I continue
      to appreciate your feedback.

      in service,


      Judi fowarded a
      post by Eugene Wyatt:

      I know little about traditional views of Karma, rebirth, past lives, future
      births, etc. and the reason for not looking further into these subjects is
      that I am occupied by the present, with the present and in the present.
      All my thoughts and actions occur in the present, not in the past nor in
      the future. I drink this Darjeeling tea in the present, not in the past; I
      write this email in the present, not in the future. So there my life is,
      in the present, at once available and unavailable to me, this is paradox
      and paradox is a language of mysticism. The present is mystical and real
      to me. The past and the future are fictions of the present, they are not
      mystical and they are not real to me.

      What lead me to dismiss Karma as anything I should spend time thinking
      about was the simple observation that if I behaved, thought and acted
      properly in the present I had nothing to worry about or hope for in the
      fictions of the past and the future and I could get back to mindfulness in
      the real and mystical present.

      <Personal experiences tend to acumulate in
      <memory, preventing the everchanging "newness" to be <manifest...

      Jerry writes:

      That's only part of it. Personal energy or will is not merely the
      harvester of memories. It is even that which believes there is
      transcendence of experience and memory. It is even the harvester of
      transcendence and spiritual experience and growth. That's how subtle it
      gets and that's why things get tough to see. Personal energy or will is
      even the 'everchanging newness' you mention. It is the source of
      duality, and all we can point to, regardless of how subtle, is a


      As for me,
      though it sounds dualistic,
      I pray for help.
      And I get it.

      The request that I make to "get me free" of my loops
      may be just a trick, but it's a trick to end my habitual
      tricks. Like dreaming our way out of the dream.
      Now we are dreaming a dream of waking up.

      Praying for help relieves me of trying to do my awakening.
      It also opens up my mind and heart,
      and once opening I pray for help
      to keep on.

      My prayers are answered by/as Presence.

      There are agents of Grace - it's just each other
      living in this world and in wholeness worlds.
      Lord, am I grateful!



      From: Tomas Diaz de Villegas

      Hello everyone,

      Not too long ago, in the midst of major ordeal(confusion, doubt, uncertainty
      and great fear) some old insights where seen anew. It began with a little
      trust and a little letting things be.

      during this time the major reflection going through me was attending to what
      is prior to sensations, feelings, thoughts- including the fears, doubts and
      stories- in general, what is prior to experience.

      all elements constituting experience can be seen as impermanent when
      investigated- then the question of - what has not or does not change? leads
      to the view of the context for all change.

      The term I use to talk about that context is "Awareness"

      so I gave my attention over to this more and more- that for anything to BE,
      for experience to BE, Awareness was already the case

      that includes all knowledge (of every variety- none excluded)

      I saw more and more that fear is an activity of placing continual attention
      on what is secondary to the primary (the primary = Awareness)

      see Everthing as secondary to That

      The fear makes out the secondary to be the Primary : the situation where one
      views a thought, image, opinion, emotion ..whatever as being MORE TRUE or
      even AS TRUE as Awareness itself

      this is a denial of the fact that any and every thought, any and every
      sensation, feeling, perception and, in general, experience owes it's being
      to Awareness

      I reflected on this more and more, seeing the fixations that fear generates

      "what will happen to me?" "dont hurt me"

      these are the messages I witnessed and curiously allowed to tell their story
      and then gently inquired as to the nature of the "me"

      stories that continue to arise and are witnessed- usually covered over by a
      shield of cynicism beyond which lies a fixation in hiding. This cynicism is
      the "I already know all that" attitude. I've noticed in looking back over
      the years clarity would be obscured by the exposing of hidden
      vulnerabilities- a deep fear of being hurt or destroyed

      This would usually stay hidden under the need to feel "I'm Right- I know how
      it all works"

      The hurt would come and the natural reaction would be to go from an "I know"
      position to the Cynical stance- all in order to keep the hurt and percieved
      "danger" from being met.

      In the reflection of what is prior to all experience, I both gradualy and
      immediately found no locatable "me" to be destroyed.

      the "me" revealed, sensations, feelings, stories, images, thoughts

      and as this was seen, it was seen that these are not the primary

      and though strange sensations would come the fear associated with them
      gradually lessened. The panic attacks I was suffering had dissapeared.

      a little while later another reflection began going through me. This was
      happening in conjunction with some rekindled quantum physics curiousity. The
      reflection was on the nature of that which I had been discerning as

      Specificaly it began with : what is matter?

      from this question, influenced by the quantum insights, came the question
      what is an observation?

      I found the question of the "observation" more fundamental than the Observed

      the physics issues I read brought everything down to the quanta arising in a
      field (also called a vacuum field) (I'm no expert on it)

      and something sparked when I heard, read or remembered the saying that the
      quanta arises from that backdrop in the act of observation.

      and the question continued: what is that quanta? what is observation?

      what is the observer?

      what is the true nature of these?

      somewhere, somehow, part intuition, part reflection, part whatever-

      the thought came saying that what that quanta was arising in was Awareness
      itself- the scientist gave it the name the quantum field or vacuum field-
      just a name

      yes, I understood this, it clicked- matter (quanta), sensations, feelings,
      thoughts, experiences, sensory stimuli, expereince- all secondary to

      I reflected on what is observation : it could refer to quanta, a chair, a
      story about a threat to "me", a sensation, a feeling, a thought, a
      perception, a reaction, a body, an idea (like observation or awareness), or
      the observer

      the question came: what is it? what is being observed? what is the observer?
      what is the Observed?

      what is the true nature of that which I was previously calling secondary?

      Something hit and in a flash came the understanding:

      the secondary is the primary

      the true nature of that which is in awareness IS AWARENESS itself

      the secondary are representatives of the primary and these representatives
      are in truth awareness itself

      what came out was this:

      Sense, sensation, object, thought, body, object, word, sound IS Awareness

      As this came, a sudtle snag in my previous perspective now became evident.

      I saw that something like a developmental process that had gone on where a
      transcendent perspective or view of awareness died and rose up in the
      awareness as immanent

      It started with the focus on Awareness as SOURCE: meaning, the focus on that
      which is ever-prior to experience, that in which all elements of experience
      (knowing and feeling) arise.

      I notice this perspective in me as the development of recognition or
      discernment between Primary and secondary or between source and creation.

      then came the reflection which focused on this Primary-secondary duality and
      the flash which said "the truth about the secondary is that it IS the
      Primary"- in otherwords- the object of awareness IS AWARENESS

      so while the first step said everything arises IN Awareness (and hid a
      subtle resistences to what is called secondary), the
      next "step" was an understanding which enveloped the previous, exposing a
      hidden resistence, and revealing that everything IS Awareness.

      Now that next "step" isnt really a step becuase as it wakes up, rubs open
      it's sleepy eyes and look here, there, up, down, past, future, within ,
      without, begining, middle, end, body, reactions, fears, doubts, thought,

      it sees nothing but Awareness- in other words- no resistence

      Now after this flash, a new quality of intent has arisen in me in the form
      of a complete willingness to be True to this revelation. My deepest wish is
      for the Truth of this revelation to consume everything with utter boundless
      compassionate mercilessness- so that every devil (fear and distortion)and
      Satan himself (the very root), is recognized as Awareness itself, in all
      circumstances, in all experience, in all conditions

      cynicism arises, fear arises, hesitation arises, doubt arises, boredom
      arsies, conflict arises, pain arises, nightmares arise, death arises, hell
      arises and more will come- there is oh, so much to meet- there are so many
      faces of awareness to recognize

      every circumstance is awareness
      every body is awareness
      every repulsion and attraction is awareness
      every happening is awareness

      This is what everything and everyone- each one of you reading this- is.



      From: (==Gene Poole==)


      Notes on Ahimsa

      This is something I wrote on topic to another list. I feel it is on topic
      here also.


      ==Gene Poole==

      Greetings fellow list members,

      I have a confession to make to you.

      Do you remember the 'fairy tale' of the 'princess and the pea'?

      In that fine illustrative tale, the princess could not sleep, for there was
      a tiny pea under her mattress. That tiny pea formed a 'lump' which
      disturbed the exquisitely sensitive princess; so disturbed, she was
      deprived of sleep.

      Her courtiers and servants, thinking to help her, heaped more mattresses
      upon her bed, hoping to ameliorate the disturbing lump, but to no avail.
      The princess could not sleep, even with fifty (50) mattresses between her
      and the lump-causing pea.

      Finally, a prince who was in love with the princess, correctly diagnosed
      the situation. He simply removed the pea, thus resolving the dilemma of the
      insomniac princess. She of course, was deeply gratefull, and no doubt
      invited him to share her now-comfortable bed, as a reward for his acumen
      and compassion.

      I offer this story to illustrate my own dilemma here, in the ongoing
      discussion of Ahimsa.

      No heaping of padding, no great number of mattresses, is capable of
      ameliorating my discomfort.

      Further, there is no hypnotic or sedative drug, no self-hypnotic saying, no
      doctrine or for that matter, any rationalization whatsoever, which is
      capable of quelling my discomfort. No aphorisms, slogans, or witticisms can
      defer my awareness. I am indeed, exquisitely sensitive, and make no
      apologies for how I am Being. I am unable to rest, as long as the pea is

      My own 'remedy' for this "dilemma" is rather different that that offered in
      the fairy-tale. My way is to water and fertilize the pea, to allow it to
      grow into the full and mature plant which is contained in the seed.

      In my own life of discovery and realization, such 'peas' are not to be
      ignored. I have found a great and very real danger (to myself) in any act
      which is ignoring any irritant. That I regularly clear myself of all
      irritants, allows any irritant which enters or appears, to be immediately
      seen and recognized; it is my openess and emptiness which allows any
      irritant to be center-stage, alone and in the spotlight of awareness. It is
      in the recognition of what that irritant is, that I am able to see and
      manage the events surrounding the advent of that irritant.

      I have, in my life, carried a veritable garden of growing and full-grown
      pea-plants. I have not only tolerated them, but have made space for them
      within myself; this is the garden of other. Yes, rather than reject the
      peas which have been implanted in me by other, rather than apply any
      broad-spectrum herbicide (such as 'roundup') to relieve myself of the
      irritating presence of those (seemingly foreign) seeds, I allow them to
      grow to maturity within me. It is then, that I may be successful in the
      self-assigned task of knowing the actual nature of each and every pea which
      I find within myself.

      "By their fruits, ye shall know them"; meaning, that I see how can I
      transmit to others, seeds of what grows within myself. It is in the very
      conscious and deliberate withholding of those seed of irritation, which is
      Ahimsa. Which is why it is said:

      "Criticise not the mote in the eye of your neighbor, before removing the
      log from your own eye".

      I will share that in my reality, there is no exception from Ahimsa, none
      whatsoever. No excuses are accepted. There is no balm for my irritation, no
      anesthetic for my senses. I live in a state of constant sharing with my
      living environment; every bit of information, no matter how tiny, receives
      the full attention of my awareness, as it passes through me. In this, I
      know well that each other is exactly like me in that regard, different only
      to the degree which one honors one's own nature, that of exquisite

      As exquisitely sensitive Beings, we are always aware of each and every
      nuance of Being. No moment goes unnoticed; each impression is catalogued,
      and as each catalogue swells with maturity, wisdom is thus born. The
      catalogues are those plants which I mention; each plant allowed to grow to
      maturity, reveals its nature, especially by the seeds that it drops as it

      Some of our inner growths have a toxic nature, and are thus irritants;
      Ahimsa is the empathic decision made, to avoid transmitting such toxic
      seeds to others. There is no exception to this; if we conserve a supply of
      toxics, it is the highest responsibility to avoid harming others by
      implanting them with our own (received) irritants.

      It is widely acknowedged that it is common human nature to assume the
      purity of oneself; this is referred to as 'self-esteem driven
      compensation'. One who assumes their own purity, will thus feel no
      responsibility in the act of transmitting irritants to others, for how can
      one who is pure, possibly transmit what is impure?

      The concept of 'Ahimsa' acknowledges what is stated (and usually
      misunderstood) in the Christian dictum of the 'born sinner' or 'original
      sin'. Far from being a condemnation of human nature, the doctrine of
      'original sin' is identical to that of Ahimsa; it is an illustration of how
      we may consciously and deliberately avoid the trap of assumed purity, thus
      to conserve our harmful impulses. It is that simple.

      I could stop here, but I feel compelled to mention one more cogent point.

      It is the vaunted goal of purity which is the primary irritant. This
      supposedly attainable goal, as an irritant, abrogates the responsibilty
      which is Ahimsa. It is the implantation of that irritant, that of attaining
      purity, which is the seed of seeking and attainment, to which we so often
      refer in our discussions of nonduality. The seed of seeking and attaining
      of purity, is what makes one impure.

      Purity is defined only in world-dream (samsaric) terms; thus, one seeking
      (or assuming the attaining of) purity, will use the contrast of harm,
      killing, torturing, exploiting, of others, as the basis for measuring
      relative purity. In this ongoing measuring process, which is the seeking we
      so often refer to, one is judged by ones absention from the samsaric acts
      which are defined as 'impure'. It is this seeking of purity which is itself
      the essence of the 'satan' who is called the 'father of lies'. The chief
      lie, the seed of all lies, is the assumption of purity.

      "All have sinned and have fallen short of the glory of God".

      Thus, it is the young child, faced with samsaric versions of pure and
      impure, who takes up the greatest lie as the greatest truth, and who then
      unwittingly transmits the seeds of 'purity' to others. Those seeds of
      'purity' are the very irritants which cause the 'contraction' referred to
      by Adi Da/Da Free John; those seeds of 'purity' are the very irritants
      which one lives in suffering to escape. It is the idea of purity, scaled in
      samsaric terms, which is what begins the search, the seeking, and
      promulgates the illusion of attainment.

      Driven by this early implantation of the great lie, one then moves forward,
      with a certainty of judgement which is an automatic replacement for
      sensitivity; the samsaric version of 'purity', like a mirage of water on
      the desert, draws those who thirst for righteousness, but the drink is of
      hot and dry sand only.

      It is the awakening from the trance of seeking and attainment which is the
      event of realization of self-nature; it is the seeing of the lie, and the
      vulnerability to the lie, which reveals the very nature of our true and
      sacred imperfection. It is in this moment of self-realization, that
      perfection is truely known.

      ==Gene Poole==


      This is a report on satsang with Pamela Wilson,
      in my town this week.
      She is in Ramana Maharshi's lineage
      by way of Robert Adams and Neelam.

      On her flier it says: "Come Rest In The Heart"
      and she does.
      Pamela is a joyful presence of deep silence.
      She laughs a lot and accepts everything.
      Although she encourages dialogue she
      teaches and preaches very little, apparently
      trusting the contagion of Silent Presence
      to do the work. She talks about The Beloved
      and about "Grace, she ...."

      "Satsang is still water and a whirlpool all at once.
      Silence stirred by Love.
      To truly rest for a moment in This
      is to become This. Utterly."



      Alan wrote:

      Theres this idea that self observation is always non critical..well hell
      thats the goal! Thats detachment.In other words some of us out here want to
      be doing self observation,self study but all we can do is see the dung heap
      of our pathetic attachments and we want to simply get passed this stuff,be
      free from that which causes me to react from conditions,programming,false
      self.So at a certain point its not easy to come to just dropping it. I say
      for those who havent or cant seem to drop it! Just keep sticking your nose in
      it..It ain't so pretty and feels like hell sometimes but eventually you look
      over your shoulders and begin to take note that hey!....at least I am seeing
      my shit,its not me just habit .Things begin to change,people and things begin
      to look different.The illusion of the pain even begins to fall off. I just
      want to encourage those who really are working hard,striving to be
      awake,aware, to be whole that the simple LOOK is a major accomplishment. I
      just don't see anything as important as this any more.So much
      illusion,fantasy,imagination just fall off but it is a life time adventure to
      say the least. So if some can't seem to Just DROP it Completely don't sweat
      it.Just keep hacking away.Try not getting addicted to the results,just keep
      on keeping on even if it takes a million years.The shit will begin to drop
      away on its own all by itself.We just have to be willing to pay attention
      .People talk about annihilating the ego and all that and really what were are
      talking about is bare bones self esteem for the most part,at least for me.The
      cup has to be empty before it can be filled up.So if you can't drop it.Just
      drop dropping it. So like Van Morrison who sings swallow the pain,swallow
      the hurt,I bet you will be safe and sound......Bye for now.Om ,Alan

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