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NDS digest for Monday, June 21

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  • Melody
    Nondual Digest - for Monday, June 21, 1999: To join the Nonduality Salon please go to
    Message 1 of 1 , Jun 22, 1999
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      Nondual Digest - for Monday, June 21, 1999:

      To join the Nonduality Salon please go to
      <http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/nondualitysalon>

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      From: samuel <samuel@...>


      The Salon is a circus... with ten rings,
      ever changing... discussing many things.
      From the mundane... to the esoteric,
      'getting' gist of all... an unlikely trick.

      Each 'sharer' express as best they can,
      their point of view... in plain words or koan.
      Not everyone grasps the words that some choose,
      but it's the writer's choice... which words to use.

      I comprehend just the odd Sanskrit word,
      for me, posts 'speaking' English are preferred.
      I'd not dream of suggesting the Sanskrit tongue,
      be dropped... 'cus I didn't learn it... when young.

      The whole point of this Salon 'in my view',
      is so *all can share*... the 'false' and the 'true'.
      Each participant here... can pick and choose,
      which posts to ponder... and which posts to 'loose'.


      ( /\ ) Namaste,

      sam

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      Marcia:

      Because I have "seen" self pity or I have
      observed self pity I know it isn't who I really
      am. I can trace back the associations to see
      how I got stuck in this same old, same old dreary
      program or I can just remember it isn't me and close
      it down. The understanding is crystallized in me. I
      don't need to retrace and go back to almost my
      birth to see how I imitated, developed as a defense
      or whatever to get that program written in the first
      place. Because of crystallization of understanding I
      can just close it down.

      So.....just like all mind tendencies they can be used
      as a tool and are not inherently good or bad in and
      of themselves.

      Melody:

      Marcia, I'm glad you picked up on this idea
      and are continuing with it.

      I would agree that it doesn't really serve us
      to look at crystalizations as 'good' or 'bad'.

      Everything carries the 'spark of God' in it,
      it seems....if we're willing to look for it.

      To me, crystalization ties so well to the question of
      integration.


      I have found that when we 'crystalize'
      a reaction to something...not simply
      a thought....but an experience *attached*
      to a thought and feeling reaction....
      .....that it takes up residence
      in our bodies.

      I have yet to find a thought that could
      close down the energy crystalizations
      residing in my body. (Though I'm willing.)

      A thought repeated
      often enough can 'override' the message
      from the body, but it doesn't shut it down
      as you noted.

      The crystallization is still there, growing
      like a cancer, waiting for another chance
      to express itself. And it will. If not
      in me, then in someone else.

      As one who is raising a child, I know this full well.

      Even though I haven't 'said' a thing....
      someone close to me can begin 'acting it out'
      in one form or another. I have found that
      if I tend to my own 'crystalization', 'their'
      behavior immediately shifts. I don't really
      think I'm all that powerful you see, simply
      observant.

      Tim:

      What 'other' form of power can there be? Being
      observant of the subtle shifts in paradigms of your 'self' and of 'others'
      is the recognition of the
      'control' that one has as source for the 'all' that is you. You may then
      choose to control the 'other'
      (which is a slip back into the argument) or
      control your 'self' which is liberation from the argument.

      Melody:

      I'm suggesting that instead of saying "Don't
      express negative thoughts", we are giving
      people permission to simply try to *program*
      over top of them. I'm concerned that we
      may truly believe we're making the world
      a better place, but we're not.

      []
      Most people believe scientifically that
      "for every action there is an opposite
      and equal reaction".

      Would we not consider that for every
      action of "restraining negativity" there
      is created the opposite..."expressing negativity".

      And if I don't express it, someone the
      hell will?

      What about "embracing negativity!" Doesn't
      Love take it out of the realm of +\- ?

      What I am asking us to consider is that
      for those of us who are feeling rather Self
      satisfied in that we have 'overcome' our desire
      to express negativity, and are doing something
      beneficial for the world in that....that we may not have
      *eliminated* negativity....we may have simply passed
      it on to someone else to express....everytime
      we have a 'negative' feeling or thought, refuse
      it's expression, and choke it back down.

      Please be clear that I'm not talking about
      the alchemizing property of Love.

      I'm talking about repression. *Holding back*
      thoughts and words of violence, or saying
      mantras over top of them....self 'control',
      likely does not make this a better world to
      live in.

      But if we take the time to *go back* and
      pick up those violent and brutal aspects
      of our psyche, if we embrace them and love
      them....we take them out of the "etheric
      dumping grounds of rejected material".

      My concern is that our trash dump of
      rejected thoughts is very likely another's
      playground. And likely that person receiving
      those thought and feeling crystalizations,
      or impressions, has little or no self
      awareness..... like the kids at Columbine,
      for chrissakes. Don't we hear how they
      all came from 'good' families???

      One free of violent or hostile thoughts
      and feelings is to me, a saint.

      One who represses them, and expresses
      only words of love, is a polluter...

      even if (s)he does very good deeds,
      donates to every charity, and saves
      stray kittens. (s)he may be loved
      and adored by many. It doesn't change
      the fact that (s)he's a polluter.

      I'd love to be wrong about this, though.

      But nothing I have yet observed suggests
      that I am.

      Marcia:

      I want to talk to this one point. Expressing it or choking it down may not
      be the only possibilities.

      I see it this way. Transforming it is the aim.


      Melody:

      Yes. :-)

      Transforming takes commitment. It takes
      awareness. It takes intent.

      It's much easier to swallow it, or sluff
      it off. But, if we considered that when we
      did that though that we were either setting
      someone else up, less awakened, to express
      it (like children)....or were allowing it to
      crystalize in our body as dis-ease, we might
      be more commited to the process of
      transformation.

      Marcia:

      Not choking it down but raising it up. I know this is possible. It has
      happened to me.

      It feels like an actual transformation of energy. Or at least it has that
      feeling in the body.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      TimH:

      Must we eternally feel wrong for the way we feel in any spontaneous moment?
      No. The rightness or wrongness is a knee jerk reaction to generations of
      conditioning. The trouble, I believe, is when we 'chose' to cross the line
      by giving negative feelings expression. I believe that a degree of 'self'
      control can limit this however the real problem lies when we say that this
      comment or idea is 'mine' when obviously it isn't... yet we cling to this
      negativity as a need for 'more' self improvement thus perpetuating the
      argument and self defeating our aim.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


      This Salon is like... a lectronic bee...
      sharing 'though pollen'... between... 'I / thee / we'.
      It's 'cross pollination'... that spawns 'new thought',
      as into each mind... 'new options' are brought.

      Each person who posts... sows *their wisdom* seeds.
      Some we deem 'flowers'... some we deem... 'damn weeds'.
      These are just our personal judgement call...
      'cus in 'Eden'... there are no weeds at all.

      Chela/Guru roles... flip/flop... often here...
      either 'hat' can be worn... sans any fear.
      This gives us our sense of... 'community',
      and keeps the topics... wide ranging and 'free'.


      Thanks again for your 'pollen', Tim G.
      Thank you Marcia, Tim H., Melody...
      you've shared diverse 'pollen' today, with 'we'.
      'New thoughts'... will evolve... in the minds that 'see'.


      ( /\ )

      sam

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      from TimG:

      Dear List,

      If you've never tried this, give it a try sometime; you'll be amazed:

      When confronted with a problem, instead of trying to "fix" it, or feeling
      bad about it, or some other reaction, simply LOOK at it. Look at it
      directly, straight in the face. Observe it from all possible angles, with
      complete dispassion. Bring no reaction into the equation whatsoever.
      Simply see and sound the problem to its depths, ALL of it, and say to
      yourself, "Yes, this problem is here. I see it. It exists. It IS."
      Truly acknowledge to yourself that the problem exists. Then: DROP the
      whole thing! Completely!

      Upon doing so, the entire problem will vanish as if it were smoke (which,
      in fact, it was).

      Sounded like "magic" to me too... right up until I first tried it.

      With Love (and thanks to J. Krishnamurti, who helped bring me to
      realization of this "technique),

      Tim

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      from John Main, "Thought, Feeling, and Love," THE WAY OF
      UNKNOWING:

      "In the overall course of our life's pilgrimage we do not reject thought, we
      do not reject emotion. But we recognize that if the pilgrimage is to bring
      us to the fulfillment of God's pure Being, we must transcend them by a
      discipline that becomes, like the burden, sweet and light. Our meditation is
      that discipline. [. . . ]"

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      From: Elisabeth Bell

      The Sea

      The surf is lovely
      but the ocean is not lovely.

      Where the sea's hand urges the land
      we watch her

      the sea by herself we do not see.

      The waves are lovely
      but the water is not lovely.

      Where the sea's arched back presses the sky
      it draws our eye

      the sea by herself we do not see.

      My heart wants more than she can see,
      goes swimming

      head underwater, she breathes,
      goes completely under.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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