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Highlights of Fri/Jan 28

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  • Gloria Lee
    Talk of the day seemed to flow around surrender...who, what, how? Judi: ********* Yes, exactly. And in my play here with Xan I m trying to get that point
    Message 1 of 1 , Jan 29, 2000
      Talk of the day seemed to flow around surrender...who, what, how?

      Judi: *********
      Yes, exactly. And in my play here with Xan I'm trying to get that
      point across. There is no "identity" as such, 'false' or otherwise.
      There is no "one" that is to surrender. This is already nothing BUT
      but freedom. There is no going, there is no coming. And that's just
      the way the mop flops! So, for her to say that she wants to surrender
      I think is interesting. Makes me wonder what she's up to?
      Makes me a tad nervous! :-)

      Petros: Yeah, because her words don't seem to match up with your notion of
      > and no-coming, right? Does that mean there's something wrong with her words,
      > or merely that within no-going and no-coming, there is also the occasional
      > arising of notions like surrender?
      Judi******* Well someone starts talking surrender, I start thinking murder!
      Can never be too careful about these things. :-)

      xan:~ What am I up to?
      I am acutely aware of the human mind's capability for self-deception.
      Surrender is the vigilance of seeing and seeing through all that.
      Each held pattern of thought and emotion given up each moment
      until there is no more holding.

      Surrender is not complete until every fragment of awareness that
      forgot what it is remembers.
      Petros: Sounds like a lot of work. You could chase them little boogers all
      over creation trying to get them to remember. And they'd be running real fast
      trying not to be caught. Easier just to stay home and nab 'em as they come
      through the door.
      On-target. Simply aware and awake, right here.
      Vigilance isn't going after anything. It's being right here,
      alert. Unraveling knots by being with the knot, in the knot, as
      the knot. There's nowhere else to go to do the work, nowhere else
      to be but here to do it. Whatever walks through the door, welcome
      it, and "open" it - it's a present. That's the work of awareness
      as seen from here. Nothing needs to be caught, just opened.

      xan:According to me this watchfulness is required until my last breath.
      It is possible to be awake in awareness but careless in vigilance
      to hidden remnants of false identity/conditioned mind. One can
      camouflage a great deal of bullshit under the right-sounding ideas
      and moments of bliss.

      If it were not so, what could make one nervous?
      Dan: In Zen they say, "a day of no work is a day of no eating."
      In the Hebrew scheme, there is one day of seven taken for no work,
      simply to rest and remember. The other days, it is acknowledged
      that life is work. Work = energy applied. God works and rests,
      one rests in God and works in God. There can be effortless
      work, work without self-conscious deliberation, but shirking of
      work leads to stagnation. Work can be play. There can be lightness
      to awareness's movement/nonmovement. As it is said, "let there be Light."
      Constantly releasing what is held, deepening what "already is the case,"
      moving infinitely into motionless Awareness. It's just a contradiction
      to thought. :-)
      xan: ~ That's the point, you have no idea.
      Judi:******* You're right there! I have absolutely no idea.
      xan: ~ As I see it, there's *no idea* closed
      > and *no idea* open, possibilities unlimited.

      This kinda stuff just drives me nuts. (good kinda nuts - sortof)

      If I recall correctly, Jerry started this list to get a sort of
      "grass roots" thing going - what are your experiences, how do you
      incorporate a nondual perspective into your everyday life, that sort of
      thing. (Larry's post on "it happening" being a prime example - Thanx

      It seems to me being "politically correct" (I'm no rat, I'm a Rodent
      American) is driven to Nth degree here - No labels my ass. Lately it
      seems there is nothing BUTT labels being thrashed back and forth. ...
      just seems a matter of who can come up with the coolest 'non-label'.

      Personally I felt Rogers posting to be a breath of fresh air. I
      didn't respond cuz I didn't want to get lambasted with ... who's feeling
      it ... what air ... it's all ultimately illusion ...what body ... whose
      experience ... and on and on and on.

      | Thinking is
      | actually highly over rated! But how to go beyond mere thought ? There's the
      | rub.

      It is thought that wonders if "it" can get beyond thought. Thought
      has a limit, beyond which it cannot proceed. What-You-Are is already
      Beyond-Thought. Just a matter of seeing thought for what it is, is
      all. "Identity, body, name, form" -- all thought. The nature of
      thought is that it appears in a moment -- to disappear, like a wave
      dissolving into the crest. Waves follow waves, across a surface of
      ... what you are. This can only be seen right Now.


      now what (no question mark)
      I feel like a river bed
      thoughts flowing through me like blood
      seems okay, more is better
      let it flow
      a blind spot slowly dissolving
      all is well



      Logic, logos, the word. In the beginning was the word...
      I say in words that the real is before and transcending the word.
      The word and wordy thinking causes the separation of the individual from all. We
      almost have forgotten wordless thinking. Language distorts awareness. If there
      must be
      a word then it's not a (pro)noun like "I"
      it's a verb...


      love, andrew

      Jay responds:
      Andrew, dear Andrew, "In the beginning was the word" originally meant
      something very different from what you are implying. That phrase is as old
      as thought itself -- thought as awareness, not what has become the
      pejorative use of the word here on this list.

      This phrase is a beautiful testament to one of the oldest myths we have --
      the myth of our awakening. Did we awaken from something? Who knows and who
      cares. The phrase and the thread of thought itself is beautiful, no?
      Inviting reveries of a time long past...and wonderful music, art, stories
      and poetry.

      Logos is something very much deeper than you give it credit for here. I
      suspect that you are reacting to some kind of negative connotation which so
      many of us experience as the teleological, "conventional" logos. What made
      you react the way you did?

      And why do you dislike language so much? It does not distort awareness in my
      view. It is a part of awareness. Why again do you react this way? Do you
      feel that language is distorting something? Do you feel that it aids you in
      any way? May I suggest that it aids you (and the rest of us) by allowing you
      to participate in this very list and share your insights?

      I'm curious about the differentiation between "I" and "Be." At risk of
      forcing you to use language, can you please say more?


      Can I ask a question? I come from a line of psychics. I have little
      difficulty traveling to different planes of reality, time and dimensions. I
      can't walk through a criminal courtroom with almost tossing my cookies from
      the twisted feelings retained there.I am extremely sensitive to emotions,
      and will cry because another person is crying, feel joy when someone near me
      feels joy, etc. (That's why I had such a strong reaction to Gloria's anger
      about the HTML, and it got away from me.) There's more, but I'm not going to
      detail it right now.
      Presently,I have strong filters and walls in place, so that I can function
      in "normal" society (whatever that means.) Should I attempt to lose the
      walls? I am afraid of very little, but I am afraid of being overwhelmed or
      incapacitated by these abilities. Please answer.Thanks.
      When I came to this list, I was fairly sure of what my beliefs were. Now I
      am questioning, undermining and crumbling some of them (others withstood the
      I just wanted to thank you all for taking the time to assist others.

      I don't know what you should do. That you are aware of these walls and filters
      their function is a big step. I had similar barriers and I know the fear.
      Perhaps just
      gradually reducing the effort you put into maintaining them is a way to go.

      From one empath to another, there is no need to do anything
      to your system for survival and relative comfort in the world.
      Beliefs, as you are seeing, crumble by themselves in the
      natural process of opening to the truth of yourself which is
      beyond belief.

      For me, relaxing more and more into pure silent awareness
      has given a sense of wholeness and stability that my
      previous filters and walls could never match. The change is
      organic, and you do not need to make artificial decisions in
      this process of coming home to yourself.

      Old Hag describes her visit to Chuang Yen Monastery, in Carmel NY

      i have been to that same temple a number of times through the years,
      especially in old gypsy's wandering days. i remember because it was so
      large, they first built the buddha statue and then built the temple
      around it.

      My favorite statue is of Kwan-Yin in the smaller hall. She/He is
      alive!!! Have you ever touched it's hand? Years ago, there was no one
      around and i could be near Her all alone and touch her hand, and gaze
      into his eyes - oh, are not those eyes something? and feel her - oooooo.
      Now, there is a sign that says don't touch, but do it anyway! ,^)) The
      power is tremendous - most likely from all the devotion displayed in
      front of the Bodhisattva of Infinite Compassion.

      The large Buddha is Amitabha, or Amida. And it is the reciting of
      Amitabha's name that is the main practice. Once i was there (before the
      main temple was built) in the small temple and took part in a ceremony
      with the monks and nuns and laypeople. We formed a line and walked with
      small steps very fast reciting Amitabha's name, winding in and out
      between the statues around the hall. It was beautiful. And excellent
      meditation technique. After you sit back down, peace descends. And
      whaddyaknow? you are in Pure Land..in this very lifetime!

      They were very kind, coming over and explaining the text and what was
      happening. Later, after the ceremony, they asked if we wanted to eat
      dinner with the family who keeps care of the temple. It was very lovely,
      sitting around a large round table, and all the food was served on a
      "lazy susan" (remember those from the 50's?) in the center and you just
      whirled the susan and took what you wanted from each section on it. They
      only spoke Chinese, so i got to eat a lot.


      From: andrew macnab Subject: explanation

      "The fate of all explanation is to close one door only to have another
      fly wide open."
      Charles Fort


      Hi Andrew,

      Perhaps it is best to close the door, if your fly is wide open.

      Your friend,

      ==Gene Poole==

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