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  • andrew macnab
    Message 1 of 1 , Jan 24, 2000

      Ron Philo:

      The death of a loved one would not be a reason for an enlightened
      person to seek solace, in my opinion. The soul is eternal, the loved
      one has merely changed shape. The loved one is, in my belief, in a
      place where there is no pain and no attachments, only joy. Perhaps
      we seek comfort because we have not resolved our attachments and
      needs that we ourselves had with that person.


      You might want to read the
      account of J. Krishnamurti's
      response to his brother's
      death as related in the
      famous Mary Lutyens biography.
      There is a great deal of
      speculation offered about the
      behavior of enlightened folks
      and the great bulk of it is
      pretty much not worth the
      paper or CRT space it takes up,
      perhaps because of confusion
      between enlightenment and the
      Christian-Western notion of
      sainthood and/or due to
      misunderstanding of
      "attachment" as it applies to
      human relationship.


      Sadhana Louise posted:

      "You can do what you like, as long as you do not take
      yourself to be the body and the mind. It is not so
      much a question of actual giving up the body and all
      that goes with it, as a clear understanding that you
      are not the body......"
      "Be aware that whatever happens, happens to you, by
      you, through you, that you are the creator, enjoyer
      and destroyer of all you perceive and you will be unafraid.
      Unafraid, you will not be unhappy, nor will you seek happiness."

      - Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj


      ***** Perhaps he was saying that to a specific person for
      a specific reason, but as a statement of fact, of truth, he is wrong.
      We are not other than these bodies here.
      Nothing stands apart or separate. Nothing is excluded.
      Everything is included. That is the clear understanding, NOT
      that we are separate somehow. There is no such thing as separate.

      I'm surrendered you see? I don't pretend to be other than this
      limited body and mind. And in this surrender here, there is love,
      itself. It is God, it is what is beautiful. I wish you could see it.
      I am at your feet you see? Do you see me now? I am not talking to
      I am talking to you.


      S.L: Love is not "relationship". God is not "relationship".

      Judi: ****** It is nothing BUT relationship.

      S.L: Relationship requires two.

      Judi:****** No. It is relationship Itself.

      S.L: When the sense of two-ness drops away, love is.

      Judi: ******* Sense has nothing to do with it. That's all in your head.
      To drop or not to drop changes nothing.

      S.L: God Is.

      Judi, I think I see what you are saying, but I don't quite have it.
      Would you elaborate on this point: "We are not other than these bodies
      here."? I thought we've been saying the body is an illusion as an
      integral whole.

      getting confused, Larry

      Yes, gladly Larry. It's about surrender. In surrendering to our bodies
      and our limitations, we find freedom and enjoy understanding.
      Freedom is not to be found in our thinking that the body is somehow an
      or that life is an illusion and that we need only twist our minds around
      in a certain way to see that. No. It is not in our thinking. We find it
      in our surrender, in taking our ease here, which is in fact already the
      case. You are in fact already surrendered you see? We can't be other
      than surrendered, which is right here, right now, this very moment here.
      There is no such thing as 'tomorrow'. That is what there is to realize.
      Like Dan was just saying, there is 'no way out'. So you can think
      whatever you want, it doesn't change the fact of our surrender, of what
      is already the case here, one iota.
      This *is* Calvary.

      Happy Days,

      Sadhana Louise:
      citing Dan: "Blessings, Judi, this is the reaction
      here to your gentle truth, your lovingness
      presenting yourself as yourself to yourself."

      What if his words above and below were true not only for Skye, but for
      you, and everyone else,

      "Stop, look, and listen
      (learned as a kid when told how to cross the street).
      Really look. Quiet, now. Hush
      Let the knot show itself for what it is, to itself.
      How can that happen when busy arguing, debating, being "right"?"

      Dan: Hi Sadhana Louise, my ears are burning :-)
      Where does Judi stop being Judi and begin being you?
      Where do you stop being you and begin being me?
      Nonetheless, Judi, you, and I are conversing, we can identify
      bodies, thought patterns, ways of speaking.
      Are we one or many, diverse or united, apart or together or neither?
      My words were said to Judi. If you wish to extend such blessings
      to each and all, that is perfectly fine here. Judi is each and all,
      each and all is Judi, yet each is herself and himself as well.
      The words you cited as "below" were never addressed specifically
      to Skye or anyone else. Those words were about the "point" I see
      Judi often expressing in different ways. As far as taking those
      words (about the "knot") to be about you, me, Judi, Skye, Bill Clinton,
      Mother Teresa - yes! This is the "knot" of "human being" or "being human".
      Let the knot show itself - stop, look, listen! Getting into "who" is
      really the one with a knot, and who's knot is undone, and who's knot is
      bigger - all that is beside the point as seen from here. The point is
      stop, look, and listen - just like they told me when I was a kid
      learning to cross the street! (Generally more useful advice than what they
      said during the "A-bomb Drills" -- "duck and cover!" But sometimes,
      what else is there to do? :-)
      -- Love -- Dan


      What i (and perhaps others here) am addressing
      is Judi's qualifications to offer advice/guidance.

      She lives... and breaths...
      what other qualifications are necessary?

      ( /\ )


      This from OH:

      Hello all dears: ,^))
      Here is a quote from al-Ghazali, an 11th Century Sufi:

      "Whoever leaves the world behind him passes away from mortality, and
      when she has passed away from mortality, then she attains to
      immortality. If thou findest thyself bewildered, o heart, pass over the
      bridge (which is thinner than a hair, sharper than a knife-edge) that
      spans the burning fires of hell. Grieve not, for the flames from the
      oil in the lamp give forth smoke black as an old crow, but when the oil
      has been consumed by the flame, it has ceased to exist as oil.

      If thou dost desire to reach the abode of immortality, and to attain to
      this exalted station, divest thyself first of self,
      then summon a winged steed out of nothingness to bear thee aloft.
      Clothe thyself in the garment of nothingness, and draw over they head
      the robe of non-existence.

      Set thy foot in the stirrup of complete renunciation and, looking
      straight before thee, ride the steed of non-being to the place where
      nothing is.

      Thou wilt be lost again and again.
      Yet go on thy way in tranquility,
      until at last thou shalt reach the world where thou art lost altogether
      to Self."


      Victor on the perfect googoliferous multiplicity of That:


      Googols and googols of points and waves of light changing moment by moment,
      easily seen but indescribable.


      Googols and googols of sound waves changing monent by moment, easily heard
      but indescribable.


      Googols and googols of pressure points changing moment by moment, easily
      experienced but indescribable.


      Googols and googols of flavors changing moment to moment, easily experienced
      but indescribable.


      Googols and googols of odors changing moment to moment, easily experienced
      but indescribable.


      Googols and googols of combinations of seeing, hearing, touching, tasting,
      and smelling all interpenetrating and changing from moment to moment, easily
      experienced but indescribable.

      The problem:

      We in our hubris think we can describe and improve on that "that".

      The solution:

      Just be in "that".

      With Love,



      This morning while doing my laundry I was thinking about
      how to make the shift from recognizing "not me" to "being" Self. It
      occurred to me that if the "problem" is not me then the shift doesn't
      matter. Is this correct (advisable) or am I in danger of getting stuck
      in an inferior realization?


      "~ It is only a shift of attention from the identity of "me" or "not me"
      to Self. There is always danger of getting stuck in any idea. Hence the
      need for vigilance.


      so you are saying I could make a career of "analysis" and
      cultivate all sorts of experiences of release, but that's not it. Is it
      a matter of looking "in" without a point of view? without analysis?

      "How" relates to doing. Whatever doing there is is not working. I can no
      more tell you how to release, than I can tell you how to go to sleep when
      the body needs rest. The body-mind knows "how", That which you are can
      handle the release. The answer arrives at the right moment. It is just:
      giving up what you think you are, and What you are shines. In a moment
      when the mind is at rest and not worrying over doubts and opinions, what
      are you? That's the ticket.


      Chuck on satsang with Amber:

      Last evening, I finished up the last of four satsangs that
      Amber Terrell held here in my home town of Ojai, California. It was truly
      a beautiful meeting of heart, music and the Love-that-Is. Amber is very
      articulate, centered and her lilting voice singing her own songs of Truth
      moved me to tears.

      We've had many advaita teachers hold satsangs here in Ojai (e.g.
      Francis Lucille, Yukio Ramana, Arjuna, Adyshanti, Prasad, Prajnaji, Carlos,
      Neelam) but Amber's presence moved me the deepest. This week, (and for the
      first time), I'm going down to San Diego to sit with her guru, Gangaji.
      More later.

      With Blessings,


      Larry you're an idiot. This meaningless drivel is worthless. It's not
      about philosophy or what's what. It's about letting go of what you are
      holding on to. It's not worth it. Look at yourself. Whatever you see,
      LET IT GO.

      your friend, Larry

      Aaah, I think you're on to something Ollie!! :-)
      I'm right here with you Larry, absolutely and totally.
      Just whatever you see, accept it and let it be.
      No need for judging whatsoever, just accept yourself
      and everything you see. Everything is fine.
      And everything will, in short order be made very clear.


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