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Sat. - Jan. 29

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  • Jerry M. Katz
    OLD HAG Hello, dears: (sadhana louise, that was old woman s expressions first!): Charlotte Joko Beck in Everyday Zen: Suzuki Roshi said: Renunciation is not
    Message 1 of 1 , Jan 23, 2000
      OLD HAG

      Hello, dears: (sadhana louise, that was old woman's
      expressions first!):

      Charlotte Joko Beck in Everyday Zen:

      "Suzuki Roshi said: 'Renunciation is not giving up the
      things of this world, but accepting that they go away.'

      Everything is impermanent, sooner or later everything goes
      Renunciation is a state of nonattachment, acceptance of this
      going away.
      Impermanence is, in fact, just another name for
      perfection....Still the last thing we like is our own
      impermanence. We don't really see life at all. Our
      attention is elsewhere. We are engaged in an unending
      battle with our fears about ourselves and our existence. If
      we want to see life we must be attentive to it. But we're
      not interested in doing that; we're only interested in the
      battle to preserve ourselves for ever. ...
      the clash between what we want and the way it really is."

      Later she says:
      "Intelligent practice always deals with just one thing: the
      fear at the base of human existence, the fear that I am
      not. And of course I am not, but the last thing I want to
      know is that. I am impermanence itself in a rapidly
      changing human form that appears solid. I fear to see what
      I am: an ever-changing energy field."

      And oh boy, this fear jumps up all the time, often
      presenting as judgments, ones disguised as
      altruistic/well-meaning, are usually most fearful, little
      red thing on left bony shoulder whispering..."for you see,
      old woman, if you judge another, that is a very good idea,
      then you think you are a separate being, and wooeee...you
      have your own thoughts, your own body, your own personality,
      your own self, and it's very different from that "other"
      person who is doing all those things that you, "delightful"
      old hag (red thing (apologies to any leftists on list)
      loves to flatter) would "never" do.

      Oh, my, why can't everyone else in the world be like me!!
      Do i hear Henry Higgins? lalala...Why can't a woman be more
      like a man? Why can't a Baptist be more like a NonDualer?
      (that's a personal one for old gypsy here.hoho).

      It is so hard for me to remember sometimes, that each
      diverse personality is my own diversity...there ain't no
      boundaries...and each time i start to scream and holler like
      there is really an "other' out there, i am making that red
      guy jump up and down with joy...it is his job, ya know, to
      keep throwing ego dust on any clear vision....sputter,

      But, but, but...if i can't substantiate that "other" out
      there...then, "i" might not....be. Yep, you old decrepit
      bag, you ain't!!! You never was, you ain't now, and you
      will never be. So give up!!! thinking you are.
      Go brew a thousand pots of tea for a thousand visitors to
      the pile, but know, they ain't' either. Every thing ain't.
      No thing ain't either...or is that or??? ,^))

      And the magic...the sweet, sweet magic of knowing that, of
      having it seep deep within any remaining marrow in rickety
      bones, is....freedom!
      Lordy, lordy, i am free again...and again...and again..ad
      infinitum freedom!

      i am impermanent, i am everchanging, i am boundariless, i am
      every one, and no one, i just ain't. But, oh girl, you
      droolin' old fool, remember that acceptance comes with a
      high price tag, the letting go of all the shows, all the
      protests, all the hates and all the loves, all the leanings
      toward and all the shovings away, letting go of any itsy
      bitsy subtle naming of an "other"...and finding out again,
      and again and again, lord, lordy, there was never anything
      to let go of in the first place!

      Yes, magic.
      And i am rambling. Sorry.

      i just am very happy tonight.
      and i love you all, course that means i am a big ego-maniac
      - that's for sure!!!

      hohoho ,^))
      oh i just am so damn happy.
      and nothing happened.



      The deal..with some... is that in our dialogue I will say
      something and it will touch a nerve and they scream and
      hollar and throw things around having a tissy fit. I mean
      who's kidding who? If what I say is not true, why the
      fuss? They should be thanking me instead. But they don't as
      yet understand that the teaching here is exactly about that,
      losing face. Or if they think they do, from reading their
      books and everything and listening to others, but if it
      happens to get in their face, they hollar oh no!! They think
      somehow that enlightenment is not personal or that it's just
      gonna fall in their lap somehow, like it's free. But when
      they see that it costs, they run. Or they try to turn it
      around and argue about it like I don't know what I'm talking
      about. Fine, if they think I don't know what I'm talking
      about, why the beef? :-) You see how absurd it is?
      Stupidity!! If they could put aside all their insecurities
      and jealousies they might be able to get somewhere, but
      until then they're just spinning their wheels. This is an
      intelligent process and there is no room for insecuties and
      jealousies. This is all about growing up. Very simple.
      The deal is not to find or take offense with me or with
      others, but to finally, take offense with yourself. It's
      not to be found in judging or trying to figure out where
      others are at.

      DAN: Yes. I offend myself because I've made myself into an
      object for myself, thus weaving myself into a tapestry of
      distance and splitting. Although I appreciate the
      creativity in "making" this illusion, the illusion becomes
      offensive when it anchors reality in a dichotomized
      "shell". When this shell is used as the basis for judging
      and evaluating "others", nothing is truly questioned, the
      "shell game" remains intact, repeating itself endlessly.
      "Dissolving" the shell-anchor ends any "self-offense," any
      investment in judging others or self, and creativity can
      then be appreciated spontaneously.

      Non-dual artist, if I may call him so, Anthony Padgett's
      "The Golden Gate Canvas", an art-event held at Jerusalem's
      Golden Gate at the Milennium, is presented at
      http://www.theism.co.uk (click on the yin yang symbol)

      Considering Anthony's art, and Fukuoka's nondual farming,
      http://www.seedballs.com/2seedpa.html and Robert Rabbin's
      book on the workplace as reviewed in The Daily Nondual
      Nugget on the home page of http://www.nonduality.com I find
      I am witnessing a world falling toward the nondual, with the
      most highly charged falling first in little sprinkles of
      activity, soon to be followed by masses of movement toward
      the center of attraction, toward the nondual, the only real
      black hole.

      Excerpt from Fukuoka's One Straw Revolution (via Andrew

      "I was finally released from the hospital, but I could not
      pull myself out of my depression. In what had I placed my
      confidence until then? I had been unconcerned and content,
      but what was the nature of that complasensy? I was in an
      agony of doubt about the nature of life and death. I could
      not sleep, could not apply myself to my work. In nightly
      wanderings above the bluff and beside the harbor, I could
      find no relief.
      One night as I wandered, I collapsed in exhaustion on a hill
      overlooking the harbor, finally dozing against the trunk of
      a large tree I lay there, neither asleep or awake, until
      dawn. I can still remember that it was the morning of the
      15th of May.
      In a daze I watched the harbor grow light, seeing the
      sunrise and yet somehow not seeing it. As the breeze blew
      up from below the bluff, the morning mist suddenly
      disappeared. Just at that moment a night heron appeared,
      gave a sharp cry, and flew away into the distance. I could
      hear the flapping of its wings. In an instant all my doubts
      and the gloomy mist of my confusion vanished. Everything I
      had held in firm conviction, everything upon which I had
      ordinarily relied was swept away with the wind. I felt that
      I understood just one thing. Without my thinking about
      them, words came from my mouth: "In this world there is
      nothing at all..." I felt that I understood nothing.
      I could see that all the concepts to which I had been
      clinging, the very notion of existence itself, were empty
      fabrications. My spirit became light and clear. I was
      dancing wildly for joy. I could hear the small birds
      chirping in the trees, and see the distant waves glistening
      in the rising sun. The leaves danced green and sparkling.
      I felt that this was truly heaven on earth. Everything that
      had possessed me, all my agonies, disappeared like dreams
      and illusions, and something one might call "true nature"
      stood revealed.
      I think it could safely be said that from the experience of
      that morning my life changed completely."
      INCIDENTALISM (via Phil Burton)

      Incidentalism is not a discovery, an invention or a style of
      Incidentalism is an attitude towards art, expression and
      enlightenment. It is a practice based upon observations and
      its aims are to maximize the enlightenment of its
      practitioners and to maximize the resonance of human
      expressions. It is our hope that in doing these things that
      our greater understanding of our lives will alow us to live
      more satisfied and authentic lives in a more satisfactory,
      just, and authentic environment.

      Incidentalism is rooted in the idea that art is not an
      object, but rather art happens in the incident. Art happens
      when the actions of artists bring expressions into a state
      where they can be perceived and thereby can enlighten, art
      is in the moment of expression. It is not our purpose to
      use art as a tool to demonstrate our own skill and/or
      knowledge, rather to use art as an apparatus to provoke the
      incident to incite expressions that are beyond our own
      preconceptions. The incidentalist's goal is to express that
      which is beyond their skill and or knowledge, not to educate
      through their work but be enlightened by it and allow these
      enlightening expressions to resonate unhindered.

      "We" are The Incidentalists. We do not include or exclude
      anyone from being such. It is up to you whether or not to
      include yourself in our open ended "We" as is convenient for
      your experience, change your mind whenever you like.

      The Principals:

      1. The Principal of Open Expression

      All Expressions are at the same time Original and
      Therefor we hold all attempts to claim ownership or
      exclusive authorship of an Expression to be the essential
      FRAUD. Any and all attempts to control intellectual
      property are THEFT. Words, Colours, Shapes, Movements,
      Sounds and all other forms of expressions can not be owned
      and can not be inherently good or bad. We accept that
      enlightenment and the resonance of expressions to be the
      only legitimate reward expected from the act of art.
      Stealing ideas by way of the enforced ownership of
      expressions and direct material gain from the problematic
      concept of "exclusive authorship" is opposed along with all
      other societal constructs that thwart the authentic
      resonance of expressions such as censorship and unnaturally
      small circles of editorial prerogative in our public spaces
      and media.

      2. The Principal of the Recipe

      Incidentalist art results from a 'recipe.' The recipe is
      carefully prepared by the Incidentalist, in the preparation
      of the recipe the Incidentalist draws upon the sum of their
      knowledge and experience to construct an incident where all
      factors the incidentalist wants to control are skillfully
      planed in order to maximize the potential for enlightenment
      and the resonance of the associated expressions.

      3. The Principal of Enlightenment

      You can not be enlightened by that which you have already
      conceived, therefore the Incidentalist always seeks to
      introduce uncontrollable or unpredictable factors into the
      incident of art, even as simply as leaving certain things
      unplanned and out of the recipe. If the outcome of an
      incident can be imagined by the Incidentalist, then whatever
      potential for enlightenment that exists from that action has
      already been perceived in the imagining.

      In preparing a recipe, the Incidentalist must take great
      care in not restricting the potential outcome with over
      planning, because it is the unplanned, un-preconceived
      component of the recipe that allows for the greatest
      potential enlightenment. When the incidentalist has enough
      experience and confidence, a recipe can be as minimal as a
      hunch and a wild idea. While the incidentalist must not
      avoid planing, especially when their experience tells them
      that such neglect will have predictable results, the
      incidentalist must always keep in mind that the unplanned
      has much more capacity for potent expression than the
      planed, because it can reveal the un-preconceived and
      thereby enlighten.

      If nonduality already is the case, then when we talk about
      making an effort or not making an effort, we are speaking
      from the perspective of our own rationale, from a someone
      who exists apart from nonduality and who wants to experience
      "it". This rationale developed from the perspective of one
      wanting to experience "nonduality" seems distinct from
      "nonduality's nonrationale" (it has no rationale that I can
      see) in which there is no separate one who could have a mind
      to still, nor any separate mind to be stilled. Another word
      sometimes used for "nonduality's nonrationale" is Grace.
      Grace be with us, in us, and through us.

      I know the idiots's warehouse is always full.

      I know each of us
      Could run back and forth from there
      All day long.
      And show everyone our vast collection.
      Though tonite, Hafiz,
      Retire from the madness for an hour,
      Gather with some loyal friends
      Or sit alone
      And Sing beautiful songs
      To God.
      --Hafiz (via Judi


      Here's something that just came in from the DeMello site.

      "I wish to see God."

      "You are looking at him right now," said the Master.

      "Then why do I not see him?"

      "Why does the eye not see itself?" said the Master.

      Later the Master explained: "As well ask a knife to cut
      itself or a tooth to bite itself as ask that God reveal

      Anthony de Mello, S.J.

      I have a capacity in my soul for taking in God entirely. I
      am as sure as I live that nothing is so near to me as God.
      God is nearer to me than I am to myself; my existence
      depends on the nearness and the presence of God. --Meister
      Eckhart (1260?-1327?)

      I am called Carol. I am soooo glad to find this group.
      I had been slogging through the Usenet, gleaning what small
      pieces of truth I could find. Unfortunately, the Punch and
      Judy shows (personal ego-fests) seem to be pervasive there,
      no matter what the topic.
      They were occasionally amusing ( check out �a strict
      Vegetarian diet a.k.a. (my appellation) �I am the
      serenest!!! on alt.meditation.
      However, this group seems to be genuinely seeking, as am I.
      I�m more a listener that a talker, but I thought that I
      should introduce myself.


      Hi Carol. Nice to see a new face. I got a couple questions
      of you if you don't mind?
      1. Why are you seeking?
      2. What are you seeking?


      Why am I seeking? Because I choose to believe that all life
      has energy, that energy is eternal and that my soul is a
      part of that life. Part of the seeking is duty, part is an
      hunger for harmony and balance and the rest is because when
      I am properly centered, the joy/peace/song is my idea of
      perfection. What am I seeking? Judy, I am trained as an
      accountant. The purpose of an accountant is to bring weave
      many disparate (and sometimes chaotic) financial threads
      into useful order, and to chart a path to the future, so
      that the future is better than today. Also to bring
      balance/order to a small part of the universe. I
      hope/expect to do the same thing with my soul's

      This sweet nothing personally universal universally personal

      I don't hear it hiss and strike, "You ain't got it."
      Unbound heart sings silent whispers, "I am you."



      LARRY: I think the "personal" part is recognizing personal
      feelings as "not me". Usually these feelings are painful or
      highly valued and it's hard to get outside them.
      Persistance and understanding are good principles in this
      regard. Are there any books that specifically address this
      issue? Deeper study would definitely be interesting; but
      who has time for "interesting"?:)

      XAN: ...the best book I have found about this issue of
      personal emotions in regard to awakening to Self is Relaxing
      Into Clear Seeing by Arjuna Nick Ardagh.

      It is not only interesting but useful, with clearly
      expressed understanding of self enquiry and effective
      processes one can use.

      Here's his web site:

      <A HREF="http://www.livingessence.com/">LEF Front Page</A>



      I don't know whether or not this has been referenced before
      on NDS. The site is by one Elysha whom I have enjoyed
      meeting today. Earlier we had a one-on-one satsang on ICQ.
      He is from New Zealand. The page is spare but cuts to the
      chase rather directly.

      CHRISTIANA: Elysha is relatively new to the Internet. We
      met a little over a month ago. I do not think he 'holds'
      Satsang.. but shares with whomever shows up. I have not
      seen a reference here before. I find his resonance clear,
      from the Heart, in this moment.. and his tonal aligns me


      Here's a nondual nugget i heard on the Art Bell show last
      night--seems especially appropriate for the Year 2000!
      (tho the show was a repeat from 1997)

      Caller: i know the secret of the Universe!
      Art Bell: oh? what is it?
      Caller: 2 plus zero AB: ?????
      Caller: that means the duality of the universe is being
      annihilated into nothingness

      BTW here is the chorus to a cute song art occasionally

      "Please, lord, if i'm abducted, don't let it be by Grays
      Strange little guys with the big black eyes from a galaxy
      far away I've heard the horror stories:taken in the middle
      of the night Laid out on a table like a Christmas tree: I
      know i'd die of fright!"








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