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NDH/Fri./Jan28

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  • Jerry M. Katz
    LARRY BIDDINGER The Tibetan version of the bodhisattva vow runs something more or less like, I vow to realize enlightenment in order to deliver maximum help to
    Message 1 of 1 , Jan 23, 2000
      LARRY BIDDINGER

      The Tibetan version of the bodhisattva vow runs something
      more or less like, I vow to realize enlightenment in order
      to deliver maximum help to all others. I draw two main
      inferences from this. One, what we are here for is to help
      others; and the other, the best help is enlightenment. So
      if anyone is wondering how can I help ... everyone all
      together, the answer is always "realize enlightenment".

      Thanks to everyone for this great encouragement.
      __________________________________________________________________

      VANNA BONTA (via Jerry)


      Nondualism is the the grasp by consciousness that there is
      senior existence beyond dichotomy. Nonduality is the
      outershell of Time-Space existence. Nondualism is the ALL
      beyond and before the particle; it is the ONE and zero
      contained on both sides of polarity, the UNI before all
      form.

      FLIGHT A Quantum Fiction Novel by Vanna Bonta
      http://members.aol.com/meridianOL/flight.htm
      ____________________________________________________________________
      ROGER ISAACS

      There seem to be two distinct levels here:
      The first: subtle personal effort is required to move into a
      state of receptivity or stillness.
      The second: once in receptive stillness nothing else can be
      done, transformation or Grace or a 'glimpse' can occur, but
      clearly no volition or effort can ever trigger the glimpse.

      The various diverse paths of Yoga are the 'subtle effort' or
      'routes'. Yet the routes are in themselves only useful for
      stilling the mind. Then Grace descends into that stillness.

      I ask myself 'what subtle effort can I initiate to still the
      mind which then might create the conditions for
      transcendence'. Note the emphasis on subtle effort which
      leads to 'NO effort'!

      My experiences:
      1) using a discriminative approach 'neti-neti' or 'not this,
      not this', with attention on turning thought against itself
      or attention on stilling thought, stillness & subsequent
      transcendence might occur.
      2) using an approach based in sensation, such as putting
      attention into the body or chakras & the sensations & subtle
      energy there, stillness & transcendence may occur.
      3) much less frequently for me: spontaneous emotional
      expansion, feeling Love towards someone or something, this
      too can lead to transcendence. But for me personally this
      is not something I can reproduce by subtle effort, it just
      happens occasionally. And I think this just means my
      mind-body is more geared to discrimination rather than
      devotion. Other people are probably just the opposite.
      4) I sure there are other ways (see my web site) but I'm not
      as tuned into them. TM mantra meditation worked to some
      degree for me but didn't seem to be best suited to my
      particular needs.

      There are examples of this 2-3 level distinction in the
      literature, but that would be too dry!

      It's useful for me to realize that subtle effort is required
      & I need to engineer this. I need to arrange my life &
      discover what practices encourage deeper stillness.
      However, this effort must end in no effort, must end in
      stillness beyond any trace of effort.

      IMHO teachers, various advaita teachers, who teach that 'no
      effort' is required to reach God or 'nothing at all must or
      can be done' are delivering only part of the equation. They
      are misleading!! Subtle effort is useful for nearly
      everyone, but the effort must lead to stillness or a state
      of effortless communion.

      Roger http://www.newu.org
      ____________________________________________________________________
      GLORIA LEE

      Being "free from interpretation by others" allows the
      experience itself to be the teacher, tho obviously one could
      be more open with interpretations. The idea of a teacher
      initiating and guiding one step by step really seems the
      best. I read about this with Tibetan monks and the series
      of initiations. It is all experiential, not book learned..
      and the teacher only knows what will come next. I think
      there is more general awareness of meditation and more
      teachers available here in the USA, but there would be quite
      a ruckus over bringing this into the schools. I'd also like
      to hear of anyone's experiences trying to share about
      nonduality out there in the world.

      JAN BARENDRECHT

      Not knowing has been a tremendous blessing. Never having
      seen adults, worthwhile of taking as an example, meant
      "being a light onto myself" and yama & niyama came natural.
      The direct knowledge that came spontaneously can only be
      found fragmented in various books. Having been taught in a
      lineage or along a well defined system not only would have
      meant a lot of mental waste but no teacher could have
      answered a few fundamental questions.

      What would have been suited is general nondualism, only
      giving an outline and the links with existing religions. If
      there would have been a teacher (teaching in silence) who
      could have served as the example of "ideal" adult that would
      have been very fortunate indeed. But regarding (part of)
      the spontaneous practice, no one could have given it and it
      isn't in any book. It certainly would have caused a riot in
      many established systems :)

      SKYE CHAMBERS

      Its bloody difficult isn't it [ trying to share about
      nonduality out there in the world.] :-) Shojiro and i were
      discussing this just last night. It could threaten the
      collapse our whole commercial structure as we know it and
      the value of romantic relationships *as we know them*,
      because 90% of our imagined needs would be wiped out.

      Shojiro practices a radical form of permaculture as taught
      by "Fukuoka" (type in "seedballs" and you can learn about it
      on the net). It is radical in that it is "Do Nothing"
      farming one just throws the seeds into the very environment
      that is compatible with them and they naturally proliferate,
      no machinery, no thought, just using natures laws. Where as
      permaculture takes the first steps into thought with its no
      dig and companion planting, which is okay too because its
      not too much. But fukuoka suggests touching nothing and
      using the already existing intelligent forces of nature.
      Bill Morrison the founder of permaculture learnt most of
      what he knows from Fukuoka.

      JERRY KATZ

      Yes, nondual farming. This is a good link:

      http://www.seedballs.com/2seedpa.html

      Being non-moderated, this list is very much like the natural
      farming of Fukuoka, for we allow the seeds and soil to be,
      without doing much.

      As far as sharing nonduality in the world, children and the
      elderly naturally take to nondual understanding, because
      they are both close to being and non-living. The rest of
      the world's caught up in holding on to life, security and
      structure, and building pens and cages.

      I do envision that what is seen here in the Salon and also
      with natural farming, will prevail over methods which seek
      to control and bend nature. Really, there is no other way
      to go.

      It will be interesting to see these 'seed and do-nothing'
      models spread into education and business, for example. The
      model has worked well here, so far, though many would
      disagree. Those who would disagree, I'm sure, have their
      fair share of poundable lions.

      "In nature, the world of relativity does not exist. The
      idea of relative phenomena is a structure given to
      experience by the human intellect. Other animals live in a
      world of undivided reality. To the extent that one lives in
      the relative world of the intellect, one loses sight of time
      that is beyond time and of space that is beyond space."
      -Masanobu Fukuoka- (via Andrew Macnab)

      JAN BARENDRECHT

      Skye had said: Its bloody difficult isn't it [ trying to
      share about nonduality out there in the world.] :-) Shojiro
      and i were discussing this just last night. It could
      threaten the collapse our whole commercial structure as we
      know it and the value of romantic relationships *as we know
      them*, because 90% of our imagined needs would be wiped out.

      Jan responds: For a sensible mind it won't be a matter of
      choice; the present commercial structure will collapse
      because a large part of its cost is shoveled onto the back
      of coming generations (like foreseeable droughts and
      flooding due to climate change). A collapse will mean chaos
      and probably war whereas a gradual change, starting with
      nonduality as the basis for happiness, will avoid chaos
      although society then would be likely to develop into a kind
      of Ahimsa based anarchy. Continuing "business as usual" or
      "the way of selfishness" has been the default assumption for
      all so called "doomsday predictions".
      ______________________________________________________________________

      Horse Races --

      Several racehorses are in a stable. One of them starts
      boasting about his track record. "Of my last 15 races," he
      says, "I've won eight."

      Another horse breaks in. "Well, I've won 19 of my last 27!"

      "That's good, but I've taken 28 of 36," says another,
      flicking his tail.

      At this point a greyhound who's been sitting nearby pipes
      up. "I don't mean to boast," he says, "but of my last 90
      races, I've won 88."

      The horses are clearly amazed. "Wow," says one after a
      prolonged silence, "a talking dog!"

      --from the Aham list



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