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  • andrew macnab
    ________________________________________________________________________________________ If something does not feel right with a spiritual teacher, walk away
    Message 1 of 1 , Jan 10, 2000

      If something does not feel right with a spiritual teacher, walk away from the scene. Do
      not worry whether the teacher is famous, attractive, has many followers, etc. These are
      after all superficial things. When the body dies, the fact that such things are
      meaningless becomes obvious. Water finds its own level. So if something does not feel
      right, simply trust your judgment and walk away. To paraphrase Pascal, "the heart has
      reasons which reason cannot know."

      The Truth is Simple. It is found in just letting go and being who you are without
      reservation. To be overly attached to concepts, any concepts, is to be enslaved by them.
      Whether it is the concept of enlightenment or competition or attraction of followers,
      etc., what difference can it make. One who is lost in the jungle of concepts runs away
      from simplicity of their own self as it undermines their perceived identity. Truly,
      Simplicity of Self as Pure Being cannot be overwhelmed. It is It Self Eternally



      Joshua: What is self-evident is itself its own foundation.

      But self-evidence could also be self-delusion.
      One deludes onself easily! :-) So perhaps
      we need a "proof" for this self-evidence?
      What is that proof?



      On this point we may differ. For me, an insight needs no
      further proof. If I look for this proof then I begin thinking and thinking
      causes problems.


      Dear KKT,

      I was trying to come up with my idea of proof that an insight is
      genuine. I can only relay this little story which may sound so freaking
      stupid, but it seems to be my gauge if I'm ever trying to ignore one.

      When I was 15 I went without shoes everywhere. One day out of the
      blue I told myself to wear shoes. Little rebel that I was, I fought the
      idea and went along my way with nothing on my feet. I stepped on a rock
      that stuck to my foot and when I tried to brush it off I didn't come off.
      I looked and found a big piece of glass stuck in my foot. It had severed a
      tendon, and I now have a toe that doesn't move.

      About a year later I told myself to lock my bike up at night,
      something I never did. At the time I even reminded myself about my toe.
      When I woke in the morning the bike was gone.

      Those are two incidents I keep in the back of my head. If I tell
      myself, this doesn't feel like a place I should be, I usually listen and
      leave, if I choose to try to ignore an insight, something says, remember
      your toe. It doesn't happen often because I've learned for the most part
      what to listen to and what is delusion, but I will say, if I ever hear
      "remember your toe", I pay attention. I know then, not to ignore that
      inner voice.

      I look at this and think how stupid it sounds. Oh well...

      hi cyndy

      Not stupid sounding to me at all. I always listen to this
      voice now days, in fact i consult it often if it doesn't
      pipe up :-) and have even learned to sense degrees of
      earnestness in its advise. Consequently i experience very
      few mishaps and am often well aware of the outcome of events
      before they happen and what their subjective lesson is.


      The foundation of this conviction is the heart.


      ~ Yes! Not the sentimental or emotional heart, but the
      center of the self and the whole of the Self.


      Jan, I often do not understand why so many turn to specific religions,
      cultures, etc., when the truth is right here right now. Why search the
      past 1000's of years when the truth is in this very moment?

      Love, neo

      Recognition of the truth is a piece of cake. Nothing special, except when
      one has a past as unsuccessful seeker or a mind overloaded with beliefs.
      Then, the recognition becomes "the" event. Realization has to include mind
      and body, that is if one wants to be free from suffering, compulsive
      thinking, acting and what is called "second death". This isn't a simple
      feat, it is often the dedication of a lifetime and the endeavor is eased by
      Satsangh which can be the company of a group of equal minded ones;
      intuitively this is sensed by everyone, included you as you are on this
      list :)


      My question to you both now is about how does one maintain this "no leader,
      no follower" relationship of equality (?) while still recognizing the
      greater experience and knowledge of the "former leader?" It seems that the
      basis of equality has to shift to "something else" but I have yet to
      identify what that is. I am still not entirely free of pain, either. I
      would appreciate your ideas.

      Dan: Hi, Glo.
      My perception of this situation is that to develop an ideal of a
      "no leader, no follower relationship of equality" makes the ideal into
      the leader and oneself into the follower of the ideal. The "internalized
      relationship" of leader and follower is often more difficult
      to be clear on than the "external relationship". Only when there is
      no emotional pressure to follow an ideal or impose a standard on oneself,
      will the "leader/follower relationship" be deconstructed. I don't mean
      by this a person who breaks rules to prove freedom, as such
      rule-breaking typically occurs in the service of an internalized object,
      a self that "wants something" (e.g., to make an impression, to get
      something from others, etc.) Only when awareness isn't dependent on any
      object, whether an "external" person or teaching, or an "internal" idea or
      image, will this dynamic not be conditioning perception.
      -- Love --

      Controlling is exactly what needs to stop. Controlling and being controlled
      by are two sides of the same coin.

      Thank you for looking at this important issue. As seen from here:
      Control is sought by direct influence or indirect manipulation: to
      maintain a condition, to end a condition, or to have a condition arise.
      To be controlled may be sought after or avoided. Seeking to be controlled
      or not to be controlled, is itself a form of the same dynamic (i.e.,
      one is manipulating or influencing to gain a particular condition).
      Control, as discussed here, won't end because it "needs to stop".
      Needing it to stop is itself a form of control.
      It will only end when it is seen through, when there is clarity about the
      entire situation. Such clarity is itself the "nondual truth" in which the
      "coin" is seen as it is.
      -- Love --

      Tim: There is fear in the Silence... because where Silence Is, "I" am not. And
      the ego fears that with a real horror. But the fear is entirely
      unjustified, from what little experiential understanding is here.

      ~I do not agree that there is fear in Silence. Fear exists not there.
      When we experience fear of being nothing in eternal Silence we are remaining
      in the realm of 'mind' where fear exists. It is not Silence itself that is
      fearful but it is interpretation and anticipation - a sort of 'twilight' zone
      - that scares the begeebers out of us.


      neo: As to the fear of being alone, when you finally turn around and face
      it, it is really quite a joke. All this time we have been striving for unity,
      for oneness, and yet we are afraid of it so we push it away. It really is
      funny. It is another trick of the ego to keep the veil over our eyes.

      ~ Dear neo

      Being in a solitary time in my life I went through a similar facing of
      loneliness. I discovered that my fear of being alone was actually an
      anticipation of future loniness. Being present now, all that other stuff


      I have another question: What do you think
      about the Guru's Grace, i.e. the "mystical"
      awakening, blissfulness and even transformation
      of the adept in the presence of the Guru?


      ~ I have experienced it.
      ~ The phenomenon of awakening from the dream of limited identity is both
      more complex and simpler than the intellect can grasp. How it happens is
      unique and intimate for each person.


      The blessing of a real guru is tremendous, but not available to all.

      As far as just waking up, it's a matter of Grace as to whether that

      But it is true, that the Self is closer to "us" than our own breath.
      When it is perceived for the first time, one finds it remarkable
      that they never saw it before.

      Grace is the arbiter of realization. That is,
      realization happens by Grace alone.

      We can meditate for years with the Rishis in
      the Himalayas, but if we're not blessed with
      Grace, the goal will not be found.

      The correlation between disciplined Sadhana
      and the blessing of Moksha is apparent only.
      There are thousands who have practiced
      diligently for many years who have yet to
      be blessed this way.

      There are some who find themselves to be
      Brahman after just one dabbling. How else
      can this knowledge arise but by Grace?

      If such Grace were an accident, the prisons
      would be full of Self realization.


      I like this passage by Alan Watts in his
      "In My Own Way - An Autobiography"

      Do you suppose that God takes himself seriously? I know a
      Zen master, Joshu Sasaki, who has let it be known that the
      best form of meditation is to stand up with your hands on your
      hips and roar with laughter for ten minutes every morning. I have
      heard of a sophisticated shaman-type fellow who used to cure
      ringworm on cows just by pointing at the scars and laughing.
      CAN AFFORD IT. Much of the secret of life consists in knowing
      how to laugh, and also how to breathe.

      It's beautiful! :-)

      With Love,

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