Highlights-Sat. Jan 8th
- Today... hours spent reading and culling for this edition of
'Highlight'. Mind became glutted. I went for a long walk.. and pondered
'what is *the* highlight?" Upon return.. from amongst the hundred some
posts, only a couple remained in my heart's mind. This first one being
my favorite. 'My highlights' from Saturday.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> + <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<(Old Hag)
Hello, all dears:
Regarding "triggers" and their effects gradually fading:
one of the phrases around the pile is "shining the flashlight of
awareness" on them." And i see the effects of the trigger, the "echoes,"
the neurotic reactions, the ego patterns/conditionings, the "kleshas,"
as the witch in the Wizard of Oz. When i shine the awareness flashlight
on the witch, it is like throwing a bucket of water on her; she puts her
hands over her eyes, screams, "Arghhh..." and dissolves into a puddle.
Now, sometimes the kleshas are so deeply embedded that it takes a lot of
bucket tossing, but each time their power is less and less, and
eventually they fade altogether, Ding! Dong! The Witch is dead!!
And if they do raise their bony skeletons from the grave, their power
only comes from any attention i give to them.
The parts of me that
at their own demise
and even raise
their bony heads
to attempt a ruse -
make me believe
they are still alive.
But now I realize
they no longer have power.
If I pay no heed
to their ghostly
they will soon fall
back into their graves -
less able to rise again -
for their only life
is granted by
So, for old woman, it is the Mindfulness, the moment by moment
Awareness, shining that ole flashlight, that does the trick - certainly
not tryin' to get the trigger to stop triggerin' by talking to it, "hey,
stop that, you are making me feel...." wooeee, that sure was a waste of
time for this old bag.
It seems so simple, that i used to run around trying something more
complicated, surely there must be more to "do," i thought, but i found
there was nothin' to "do" except watch them kleshas at their play, to
take full responsibility for them, knowing that frettin' about
whoever/whatever did the triggerin' was missing the target, only the
effect it was having in me needed a wash down. And the power of that
effect was greatly diminished when it was caught in the Mindfulness
beam, or got drowned by that ole Awareness bucket.
And i ain't seen a bony finger gesturing, "Come 'ere, my pretty, heh,
heh..." in a long time. ,^))
So, that's all.
Greg to dan <lovecode>
Yes, the understanding takes you by the seat of the pants. But it's
never something that you hold on to like a mantra or a continuous
thought-problem. During the contemplation phase of the inquiry, this
constant mulling over a point might happen spontaneously. Sooner or
later it just BURSTS, POPS! And then it's not thought about at all, nor
is its contrary thought about. Nor is it thought about how different
things are. No maintenance needed, no maintenance possible, nothing to
maintain! The understanding is not like an AOL Screensaver or
advertisement that flashes constantly on your computer screen. Rather,
to characterize the un-characterizable, it is the absence of anything
like that at all!
Like a heavy backpack slipped off your shoulders. The entity that you
took yourself to be is now seen as nothing but consciousness. EXTRA
ADDED BONUS: all other entities are also seen in the same way, so it's
neither personal nor impersonal!
Kristi and Judi
Kristi: back to my original question: when you discovered your
essentially, fundamentally self-centered life history........how did
your life change....
Judi:********* This all happened very suddenly one evening. It's not
like I said oh well, oh jeez, what a fool I am, and go on somehow with
life. NO!! This was a wipe out! I wasn't just looking at my selfishiness
as a quality of myself, or part of myself, it was my WHOLE self. It was
like unraveling myself until there was no self left! But I didn't know
that at the time. I was just looking for some love within me to fix my
This is death and rebirth. You don't have to worry about the re-birth
part that will all take care of itself. It's the death part, the labor
part that is your part in this. You get to experience your own death.
For real, this is it.
for the Dan Berkow Sutra files..
Greg Goode wrote: A suggestion: I think there's space on Jerry's NDS
peoples' page for some Dan Sutras. Perhaps Larry could gather and
edit. I could put into HTML format.
Dan: Greg, coming from you, someone who has struck me with great depth
of insight and awareness, such a suggestion is truly met with heartfelt
Jerry: Go for it. I have a file of Dan's posts going way back if you
want to got through them. It would be a huge file, but I can send it to
you, Larry. Hope we're not putting you on the spot. And if we are, it's
a good spot!
Dan: Wow, Jerry, for real? I never imagined - gosh, (speechless)
Larry: Sure, send me the last 100, give me an idea of how many to
choose, I'll make some selections and we'll run it by Dan.
Dan: Oh, so, Larry, you're asking for Thursday and Friday's postings?
(just kidding). ... Well, I'm just blown away by this turn of events.
I feel joyous and honored by your response to these words. Truly and
deeply honored. Thank you.
I'll put no head above my own, as my intuition and awareness arise
directly from Truth. No mediator necessary, no interpreter required.
Exploitation is in the eye of the beholder right? Those pleasantly
hypnotized are best not awakened, as in their hypnotized state they
consider themselves "awake" and "happy". If an ex-member does come out
of the hypnosis and recognize exploitation occurred, that member is
simply confronting further "projections" right? Reminds me of the
dynamics of families in which abuse occurred, but is denied. The one
abused is treated as if such abuse is normal and expected, has a
rationalization, and often is convinced that such abuse is deserved or
even helpful. Years later, if the abuser is confronted, the abuser
typically denied it occurred, or rationalizes it as something the abused
brought on themselves. These dynamics are the dynamics of the human
community as it maintains itself in a condition of sleep through
avoidance and dishonesty. An apparently insightful, charismatic and
articulate teacher may well be dealing with self-dishonesty that
contributes to dishonesty in dealing with others. Charisma tends to have
that effect in general, including faith healers, politicians, and
Yes, we learn about this through real "awakeness," which is bound to
involve pain as well as joy, and is not going to be provided by a
"mystic seer" who promises a utopian panacea.
Hi, Dan. Glad you've added your cell to the Body
of Listguru. Now there are two Dan cells.
The neurons of Listguru fire and two Dan cells
light up. When Listguru wants to differentiate,
maybe it should call you "Lovecode" as Jerry did,
or maybe I should rename myself "Dhich Nat Dahn"
or just "Dahn" for short?
Blessings to the Listguru.
May all sleeping cells awake,
may all neurons fire,
may all births and deaths be recognized
as maintaining the infinite body
Jan and Melody
Jan: Here, the substratum means the general conditions of a living body
like hunger, thirst, urge to breathe etc. Because there are two
milestones, there are four phases to be recognized: pre-enlightenment,
enlightenment (path to nirvana), removal of the conditioning for rebirth
(nirvana) and removal of the conditioning of a living body (that yet
Melody: I feel rather like a dunce here, but I didn't know that
enlightenment was NOT nirvana.
Jan: Technically, the first recognition without a doubt of "That" is
called "enlightenment". From then on you know who you are and also that
it ever has been so. But apart from that, nothing changes. "In" nirvana,
everything has changed, because all emotional memory has been erased and
with it the "I". In your case, it would mean that the sad events from
your youth would change into "just" events and all events from now on
are seen without the burden from the past. One's feelings are new and
pure again; happiness is boundless. Now you figure out if that would or
wouldn't result in a remarkable change in behavior...
Melody: Yet this makes perfect sense to me, and finally I'm more at ease
with the term 'enlightenment'. By my equating 'enlightenment' with
'nirvana' all this time, I kept thinking something was wrong with
me....because I got this 'understanding' long ago, and yet I know that
with this understanding I was not automatically 'free'. It simply did
not work this way with me. I would have moments of freedom....until old
conditioning or triggers would arise.
Jan: Dear Melody, conditioning isn't one event but a series of events,
one taking place after the other. Isn't it ludicrous to believe,
de-conditioning or "undoing" happens within the wink of an eye? So it
takes time. What do you think takes more time, "undoing" of "I" and
"mine" or "undoing" of the urge to breathe? Recognition of "who you are"
happens within the wink of an eye. Undoing the "I" doesn't.
Jan: So there is a fourth phase. Knowing the decline of "attainment" in
the course of events, is it correct to assume that the last phase
(nirvana without substratum) in Zen isn't acknowledged as a a different
phase? According to Jainism, it is and according to a comment on the
Patanjali Sutras, "one comes to one's sense when passing out of the
final condition of enlightenment".
Technically, that would mean that among others, nothing remains to
spontaneously remind of spiritual life anymore.
Melody and neo
neo: I am writing this with voice recognition because of its length. I
normally do not like to dwell on this ego-body as it is unimportant.
Because you asked I will respond to you privately. If you feel that
there is some benefit to posting this to the list please feel free
to do so.
For several years I have had increasing low back pain. About two
years ago the pain became constant. I am or was a professional. I
had to focus all of my energy on work. I had to work in constant
pain and would come home to lay down in severe pain with the weekends
to somewhat recover. One year ago the pain became so severe that I was
unable to work. I spend 98% to 99% of my time at bedrest in pain.
Because of this I have lost most of my friends and have become a
hermit in my house.
Now that you have the background I will try to answer your question
as to what I have learned. Most friends are around for the good times
and are seeking what you can give to them.
With isolation loneliness arises. As I went within I found that
loneliness, for me, was a fear of being alone. I therefore
discovered that it was a block to enlightenment. We are alone, there is
only one of us. If we fear being alone, we push it away. Therefore we
push away the very thing that we desire most.
The other discovery is that when the body becomes non functional in
the usual ways, we must look at any useful function that is left.
The only useful function left to me is communication. This body has
therefore become a means of communication and that is all. I try to
use this communication to help.
There are many other things that I have had to deal with, basically
the loss of my former life. It is quite common in this situation
for people to think about and commit suicide. This was an issue I had
to address. I finally decided that I simply did not understand enough
to make that decision. I now live in fairly severe pain and try to go
along with the flow, helping when I think I can.
There are probably many other things and changes that have occurred
that do not come to mind at the moment.
I wait for Grace.
Melody: I respect your view that this ego-body is ultimately
unimportant. However, may I say, that the sharing you have offered to me
here privately not only touches a chord deeply silent within me, but
that it feels to me to contain within it the very food for Self
It is certainly your choice as to whether or not to keep this
private....I will not make that decision for you. But I would offer my
view that if you choose to offer this to the list, you will not only be
opening the door for rich self examination for others, but possibly for
yourself as well. This voice recognition technology you are
using....from my end is quite impressive.
This fear of being alone you describe. I have only touched on it....as
I am one who generally prefers being left alone. Yet, I am discovering
underneath that 'preference' still lurks a desire to be part of
What have you done with this fear of being alone?
Also, if I may ask.....you say you wait for Grace. What will Grace
neo: As to the fear of being alone, when you finally turn around and
face it, it is really quite a joke. All this time we have been striving
for unity, for oneness, and yet we are afraid of it so we push it away.
It really is funny. It is another trick of the ego to keep the veil over
I have heard many and read many that we can spend much time searching
for nirvana but there is nothing we can do to achieve it. We can
prepare ourselves and remain open but it is only by the mysterious
Grace that it happens. For those that believe in God, it is said that
the final step is taken by God. The final step will not be taken while
there is still fear or anger in our hearts.
Colette: I rather resonate with Jody's insights that even after an inner
awakening powerful into the Impersonal Self ~ still the lower self (an
extension of that One) operates & may act out the previous program which
then needs conscious attention to transform.
Greg and John (for the future Sutra files for Greg Goode)
Greg said "there ain't no entity that becomes enlightened!"
No entity that is unenlightened either...
John: Really? Then who is asking the question? And who is replying?
There must be something or some being in order for that question to
Greg: That's exactly what this kind of investigation consists of. Don't
take it on hearsay, but look, try to find that being!
John: Intellectually, my guess is that the real being can be inferred as
being present by the very fact that the question is being asked and
answered. But the question is, can it(the real self) be experienced
Greg: If that real being (using your words here but called "awareness"
by Nisargadatta) is all there is, then how can any experience be *of
anything other* than that real being?
John: Or is all experience derived from the senses and therefore
incomplete or distorted in some way and therefore not to be trusted as
Greg: But if you look carefully at your experience, don't you see the
senses themselves as among the objects of experience? Not only the
nose, but smells are experienced. There is no scent (like brewing
coffee) apart from the appearance of the smell of coffee - they are
inseperable. Not only that, but the nose itself is experienced - seen,
felt, touched, clogged up with this here flu, etc. So in that way, the
senses are objects of experience just like the coffee is - the
experiential field all arises at once. Only later do we say that the
nose and sense of smell transmitted the coffee-aroma to us. But
actually it's always direct experience all the time, even when we think
John: Recently, I've noticed that regardless of my objectives, I find
myself performing actions, or not being active at all, without my will
being involved in the action or inaction and the only thoughts I have,
when I notice that, are that it seems to be nothing to do with "me"
whoever that is.
Greg: All actions are like that! Whether we feel the involvement of
will or not during actions, the locus or independent seat of will is not
there. Can you find the guy behind all the machinery (like in the
Wizard of Oz) handing out all the directives?
John: And while I am typing this message, another thought is arising:
'is that feeling (of the action/inaction being not my doing) a precursor
to "enlightenment"?' I sure hope so. But supposing it does happen,
who/what will know that it has taken place?
Greg: Questions and concerns like these will vanish. And since there is
no one there even *now*, there will be nobody there to congratulate you
later, and no one to congratulate!
John:'Enlightenment' seems to involve recognizing that there is no
entity there! So why am "I" typing this message?
Greg: How do "why" and "because" help?
http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/b-op-bp.htm (Judi's bundt pans)
http://www.andrewcohen.org/out/uncond_6.html ("The Problem with Advaita"
by Andrew Cohen on his website
http://www.geocities.com/advaitins (Advaita list which describes the
Advaita Philosophy of Shankara in greater details)