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Highlights-Sat. Jan 8th

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  • Christiana P. Duranczyk
    Today... hours spent reading and culling for this edition of Highlight . Mind became glutted. I went for a long walk.. and pondered what is *the* highlight?
    Message 1 of 1 , Jan 9, 2000
      Today... hours spent reading and culling for this edition of
      'Highlight'. Mind became glutted. I went for a long walk.. and pondered
      'what is *the* highlight?" Upon return.. from amongst the hundred some
      posts, only a couple remained in my heart's mind. This first one being
      my favorite. 'My highlights' from Saturday.

      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> + <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
      (Old Hag)

      Hello, all dears:

      Regarding "triggers" and their effects gradually fading:

      one of the phrases around the pile is "shining the flashlight of
      awareness" on them." And i see the effects of the trigger, the "echoes,"
      the neurotic reactions, the ego patterns/conditionings, the "kleshas,"
      as the witch in the Wizard of Oz. When i shine the awareness flashlight
      on the witch, it is like throwing a bucket of water on her; she puts her
      hands over her eyes, screams, "Arghhh..." and dissolves into a puddle.

      Now, sometimes the kleshas are so deeply embedded that it takes a lot of
      bucket tossing, but each time their power is less and less, and
      eventually they fade altogether, Ding! Dong! The Witch is dead!!

      And if they do raise their bony skeletons from the grave, their power
      only comes from any attention i give to them.

      The parts of me that
      have died
      often moan
      at their own demise

      and even raise
      their bony heads
      to attempt a ruse -
      make me believe
      they are still alive.

      But now I realize
      they no longer have power.
      If I pay no heed
      to their ghostly
      they will soon fall
      back into their graves -
      less able to rise again -

      for their only life
      is granted by
      my attention.

      So, for old woman, it is the Mindfulness, the moment by moment
      Awareness, shining that ole flashlight, that does the trick - certainly
      not tryin' to get the trigger to stop triggerin' by talking to it, "hey,
      stop that, you are making me feel...." wooeee, that sure was a waste of
      time for this old bag.

      It seems so simple, that i used to run around trying something more
      complicated, surely there must be more to "do," i thought, but i found
      there was nothin' to "do" except watch them kleshas at their play, to
      take full responsibility for them, knowing that frettin' about
      whoever/whatever did the triggerin' was missing the target, only the
      effect it was having in me needed a wash down. And the power of that
      effect was greatly diminished when it was caught in the Mindfulness
      beam, or got drowned by that ole Awareness bucket.

      And i ain't seen a bony finger gesturing, "Come 'ere, my pretty, heh,
      heh..." in a long time. ,^))

      So, that's all.


      Greg to dan <lovecode>

      Yes, the understanding takes you by the seat of the pants. But it's
      never something that you hold on to like a mantra or a continuous
      thought-problem. During the contemplation phase of the inquiry, this
      constant mulling over a point might happen spontaneously. Sooner or
      later it just BURSTS, POPS! And then it's not thought about at all, nor
      is its contrary thought about. Nor is it thought about how different
      things are. No maintenance needed, no maintenance possible, nothing to
      maintain! The understanding is not like an AOL Screensaver or
      advertisement that flashes constantly on your computer screen. Rather,
      to characterize the un-characterizable, it is the absence of anything
      like that at all!

      Like a heavy backpack slipped off your shoulders. The entity that you
      took yourself to be is now seen as nothing but consciousness. EXTRA
      ADDED BONUS: all other entities are also seen in the same way, so it's
      neither personal nor impersonal!
      Kristi and Judi

      Kristi: back to my original question: when you discovered your
      essentially, fundamentally self-centered life history........how did
      your life change....

      Judi:********* This all happened very suddenly one evening. It's not
      like I said oh well, oh jeez, what a fool I am, and go on somehow with
      life. NO!! This was a wipe out! I wasn't just looking at my selfishiness
      as a quality of myself, or part of myself, it was my WHOLE self. It was
      like unraveling myself until there was no self left! But I didn't know
      that at the time. I was just looking for some love within me to fix my
      broken heart.

      This is death and rebirth. You don't have to worry about the re-birth
      part that will all take care of itself. It's the death part, the labor
      part that is your part in this. You get to experience your own death.
      For real, this is it.

      for the Dan Berkow Sutra files..

      Greg Goode wrote: A suggestion: I think there's space on Jerry's NDS
      peoples' page for some Dan Sutras. Perhaps Larry could gather and
      edit. I could put into HTML format.

      Dan: Greg, coming from you, someone who has struck me with great depth
      of insight and awareness, such a suggestion is truly met with heartfelt

      Jerry: Go for it. I have a file of Dan's posts going way back if you
      want to got through them. It would be a huge file, but I can send it to
      you, Larry. Hope we're not putting you on the spot. And if we are, it's
      a good spot!

      Dan: Wow, Jerry, for real? I never imagined - gosh, (speechless)

      Larry: Sure, send me the last 100, give me an idea of how many to
      choose, I'll make some selections and we'll run it by Dan.

      Dan: Oh, so, Larry, you're asking for Thursday and Friday's postings?
      (just kidding). ... Well, I'm just blown away by this turn of events.
      I feel joyous and honored by your response to these words. Truly and
      deeply honored. Thank you.

      I'll put no head above my own, as my intuition and awareness arise
      directly from Truth. No mediator necessary, no interpreter required.
      Exploitation is in the eye of the beholder right? Those pleasantly
      hypnotized are best not awakened, as in their hypnotized state they
      consider themselves "awake" and "happy". If an ex-member does come out
      of the hypnosis and recognize exploitation occurred, that member is
      simply confronting further "projections" right? Reminds me of the
      dynamics of families in which abuse occurred, but is denied. The one
      abused is treated as if such abuse is normal and expected, has a
      rationalization, and often is convinced that such abuse is deserved or
      even helpful. Years later, if the abuser is confronted, the abuser
      typically denied it occurred, or rationalizes it as something the abused
      brought on themselves. These dynamics are the dynamics of the human
      community as it maintains itself in a condition of sleep through
      avoidance and dishonesty. An apparently insightful, charismatic and
      articulate teacher may well be dealing with self-dishonesty that
      contributes to dishonesty in dealing with others. Charisma tends to have
      that effect in general, including faith healers, politicians, and

      Yes, we learn about this through real "awakeness," which is bound to
      involve pain as well as joy, and is not going to be provided by a
      "mystic seer" who promises a utopian panacea.

      Hi, Dan. Glad you've added your cell to the Body
      of Listguru. Now there are two Dan cells.
      The neurons of Listguru fire and two Dan cells
      light up. When Listguru wants to differentiate,
      maybe it should call you "Lovecode" as Jerry did,
      or maybe I should rename myself "Dhich Nat Dahn"
      or just "Dahn" for short?

      Blessings to the Listguru.
      May all sleeping cells awake,
      may all neurons fire,
      may all births and deaths be recognized
      as maintaining the infinite body
      of Listguru!

      Jan and Melody

      Jan: Here, the substratum means the general conditions of a living body
      like hunger, thirst, urge to breathe etc. Because there are two
      milestones, there are four phases to be recognized: pre-enlightenment,
      enlightenment (path to nirvana), removal of the conditioning for rebirth
      (nirvana) and removal of the conditioning of a living body (that yet
      remains alive).

      Melody: I feel rather like a dunce here, but I didn't know that
      enlightenment was NOT nirvana.

      Jan: Technically, the first recognition without a doubt of "That" is
      called "enlightenment". From then on you know who you are and also that
      it ever has been so. But apart from that, nothing changes. "In" nirvana,
      everything has changed, because all emotional memory has been erased and
      with it the "I". In your case, it would mean that the sad events from
      your youth would change into "just" events and all events from now on
      are seen without the burden from the past. One's feelings are new and
      pure again; happiness is boundless. Now you figure out if that would or
      wouldn't result in a remarkable change in behavior...

      Melody: Yet this makes perfect sense to me, and finally I'm more at ease
      with the term 'enlightenment'. By my equating 'enlightenment' with
      'nirvana' all this time, I kept thinking something was wrong with
      me....because I got this 'understanding' long ago, and yet I know that
      with this understanding I was not automatically 'free'. It simply did
      not work this way with me. I would have moments of freedom....until old
      conditioning or triggers would arise.

      Jan: Dear Melody, conditioning isn't one event but a series of events,
      one taking place after the other. Isn't it ludicrous to believe,
      de-conditioning or "undoing" happens within the wink of an eye? So it
      takes time. What do you think takes more time, "undoing" of "I" and
      "mine" or "undoing" of the urge to breathe? Recognition of "who you are"
      happens within the wink of an eye. Undoing the "I" doesn't.

      Jan: So there is a fourth phase. Knowing the decline of "attainment" in
      the course of events, is it correct to assume that the last phase
      (nirvana without substratum) in Zen isn't acknowledged as a a different
      phase? According to Jainism, it is and according to a comment on the
      Patanjali Sutras, "one comes to one's sense when passing out of the
      final condition of enlightenment".

      Technically, that would mean that among others, nothing remains to
      spontaneously remind of spiritual life anymore.

      Melody and neo

      neo: I am writing this with voice recognition because of its length. I
      normally do not like to dwell on this ego-body as it is unimportant.
      Because you asked I will respond to you privately. If you feel that
      there is some benefit to posting this to the list please feel free
      to do so.

      For several years I have had increasing low back pain. About two
      years ago the pain became constant. I am or was a professional. I
      had to focus all of my energy on work. I had to work in constant
      pain and would come home to lay down in severe pain with the weekends
      to somewhat recover. One year ago the pain became so severe that I was
      unable to work. I spend 98% to 99% of my time at bedrest in pain.
      Because of this I have lost most of my friends and have become a
      hermit in my house.

      Now that you have the background I will try to answer your question
      as to what I have learned. Most friends are around for the good times
      and are seeking what you can give to them.

      With isolation loneliness arises. As I went within I found that
      loneliness, for me, was a fear of being alone. I therefore
      discovered that it was a block to enlightenment. We are alone, there is
      only one of us. If we fear being alone, we push it away. Therefore we
      push away the very thing that we desire most.

      The other discovery is that when the body becomes non functional in
      the usual ways, we must look at any useful function that is left.
      The only useful function left to me is communication. This body has
      therefore become a means of communication and that is all. I try to
      use this communication to help.

      There are many other things that I have had to deal with, basically
      the loss of my former life. It is quite common in this situation
      for people to think about and commit suicide. This was an issue I had
      to address. I finally decided that I simply did not understand enough
      to make that decision. I now live in fairly severe pain and try to go
      along with the flow, helping when I think I can.

      There are probably many other things and changes that have occurred
      that do not come to mind at the moment.

      I wait for Grace.

      Melody: I respect your view that this ego-body is ultimately
      unimportant. However, may I say, that the sharing you have offered to me
      here privately not only touches a chord deeply silent within me, but
      that it feels to me to contain within it the very food for Self

      It is certainly your choice as to whether or not to keep this
      private....I will not make that decision for you. But I would offer my
      view that if you choose to offer this to the list, you will not only be
      opening the door for rich self examination for others, but possibly for
      yourself as well. This voice recognition technology you are
      using....from my end is quite impressive.

      This fear of being alone you describe. I have only touched on it....as
      I am one who generally prefers being left alone. Yet, I am discovering
      underneath that 'preference' still lurks a desire to be part of

      What have you done with this fear of being alone?

      Also, if I may ask.....you say you wait for Grace. What will Grace
      do offer?

      neo: As to the fear of being alone, when you finally turn around and
      face it, it is really quite a joke. All this time we have been striving
      for unity, for oneness, and yet we are afraid of it so we push it away.
      It really is funny. It is another trick of the ego to keep the veil over
      our eyes.

      I have heard many and read many that we can spend much time searching
      for nirvana but there is nothing we can do to achieve it. We can
      prepare ourselves and remain open but it is only by the mysterious
      Grace that it happens. For those that believe in God, it is said that
      the final step is taken by God. The final step will not be taken while
      there is still fear or anger in our hearts.

      Colette: I rather resonate with Jody's insights that even after an inner
      awakening powerful into the Impersonal Self ~ still the lower self (an
      extension of that One) operates & may act out the previous program which
      then needs conscious attention to transform.

      Greg and John (for the future Sutra files for Greg Goode)

      Greg said "there ain't no entity that becomes enlightened!"

      No entity that is unenlightened either...

      John: Really? Then who is asking the question? And who is replying?
      There must be something or some being in order for that question to
      register, surely?

      Greg: That's exactly what this kind of investigation consists of. Don't
      take it on hearsay, but look, try to find that being!

      John: Intellectually, my guess is that the real being can be inferred as
      being present by the very fact that the question is being asked and
      answered. But the question is, can it(the real self) be experienced

      Greg: If that real being (using your words here but called "awareness"
      by Nisargadatta) is all there is, then how can any experience be *of
      anything other* than that real being?

      John: Or is all experience derived from the senses and therefore
      incomplete or distorted in some way and therefore not to be trusted as

      Greg: But if you look carefully at your experience, don't you see the
      senses themselves as among the objects of experience? Not only the
      nose, but smells are experienced. There is no scent (like brewing
      coffee) apart from the appearance of the smell of coffee - they are
      inseperable. Not only that, but the nose itself is experienced - seen,
      felt, touched, clogged up with this here flu, etc. So in that way, the
      senses are objects of experience just like the coffee is - the
      experiential field all arises at once. Only later do we say that the
      nose and sense of smell transmitted the coffee-aroma to us. But
      actually it's always direct experience all the time, even when we think
      it isn't.

      John: Recently, I've noticed that regardless of my objectives, I find
      myself performing actions, or not being active at all, without my will
      being involved in the action or inaction and the only thoughts I have,
      when I notice that, are that it seems to be nothing to do with "me"
      whoever that is.

      Greg: All actions are like that! Whether we feel the involvement of
      will or not during actions, the locus or independent seat of will is not
      there. Can you find the guy behind all the machinery (like in the
      Wizard of Oz) handing out all the directives?

      John: And while I am typing this message, another thought is arising:
      'is that feeling (of the action/inaction being not my doing) a precursor
      to "enlightenment"?' I sure hope so. But supposing it does happen,
      who/what will know that it has taken place?

      Greg: Questions and concerns like these will vanish. And since there is
      no one there even *now*, there will be nobody there to congratulate you
      later, and no one to congratulate!

      John:'Enlightenment' seems to involve recognizing that there is no
      entity there! So why am "I" typing this message?

      Greg: How do "why" and "because" help?
      recommended websites

      http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/b-op-bp.htm (Judi's bundt pans)

      http://www.andrewcohen.org/out/uncond_6.html ("The Problem with Advaita"
      by Andrew Cohen on his website

      http://www.geocities.com/advaitins (Advaita list which describes the
      Advaita Philosophy of Shankara in greater details)
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