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Digest June 19, 1999

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    Nondual Digest. A selection of letters posted to the Nonduality Salon on Saturday, June 19, 1999, Eastern Standard Time. This issue includes many brief
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      Nondual Digest. A selection of letters posted to the Nonduality Salon on
      Saturday, June 19, 1999, Eastern Standard Time.

      This issue includes many brief questions and answers. Be careful of some
      of those questions. They'll really get you going. Same for the answers!
      Thank you. Something you may want to do is print these digests and read
      them during break time at work or while sitting at the park bench.

      ---Jerry
      ________________________________________________________________________


      The radical nondual perspective says that everything is the same. This
      is an extraordinary statement to meditate upon. A person has to loosen
      their psychological and emotional chains to begin to enter into that
      meditation.

      It is nothing like trying to imagine infinity. It is totally different.
      It's a realization that everything is the same; that there is neither
      existence nor the absence of existence. It may be the deepest knowledge
      of which one is capable. It's deeper than the varieties of love, which
      are deeper than mathematics.

      We are here to know nondual awareness.

      Gene Poole responds:

      It seems that some chains are quite subtle. Factors of social propriety
      continue; the differences are highlighted, and the 'sameness' which you
      point to continues to be known only as difference.

      It is difficult to 'break the ice'; it is difficult to invite to express
      beyond personality, and it is the chains of personality which demand
      compliance with world-dream customs. That is why the reference to the
      reverant; that is why the comfortable contrast between the 'masters' and
      the 'seekers'.

      To refer to the words of the masters, is to have a comfortable place to
      hide, to contemplate secretly why it is that one may have difficulty in
      expressing Own, without mimicry and without arguing difference. It is
      this puzzle, the disparity between known inner experience and the
      expression of such, which this 'sacred playground' is. To appear, only
      to defend or to correct, is to participate by default, to allude to
      one's own,only via contrast with other, and to thus abrogate the
      struggle to express.

      Lacking that struggle, one continues to take refuge, depending upon the
      muscle of master, but remaining thus weak. Bridging that gap between
      'inner knowing' and effective expression is risk-taking behaviour.
      Social propriety mitigates against taking that risk.

      Tolerance and support, in knowing of that sameness, of which you speak,
      is the helping hand.

      ---and Gene composed the following supportive poem:


      One foot in each realm

      ("But there are no realms!")

      Struggling to express

      ("Don't bother! It has all been said before!")

      Taking this risk

      ("You should be ashamed!")

      Loving even those voices

      ("Get a clue!")

      Which threaten embarassment

      ("You are an idiot!")

      I proceed

      ("And who do you think you are?")

      To say this

      ("you have said nothing!")

      Which highlights the essence

      ("Sorry, wrong essence!")

      Of the evolution of my Being;

      Overcoming fearful inhibition

      Honestly stating

      My own, owning, admitting...

      How can I say it otherwise, in my own words?

      Tolerance, welcoming, no punishment

      Given or implied;

      Social propriety is less

      Than I am.

      Relaxed deliberately, breathing

      Attending and Intending,

      I launch this missive

      Into the sameness

      Knowing the difference.


      My own vision,

      ==Gene Poole==

      _______________________________________________________________________



      >What impact does this list community have on your daily life?

      An enormous one. This list is a jnana practitioner's dream come true.

      ---Tim Gerchmez
      _______________________________________________________________________

      zero: to a person who has nondual perception, might not a
      discussion about lint, its uses and abuses be just as "enlightening?"

      ...which prompted Sam:

      What is this... stuff?

      I know this question may sound quite dumb!
      But... where in the hell does lint come from?
      You know... that grayish fluff,
      that wispy, gossamer stuff.

      It accumulates in an unused room.
      Fugitive from vacuum, mop and broom.
      It hides 'neath sofa, chairs and bed.
      Is it alive or is it dead?

      Will someone tell me please,
      is it the excreta of ants or fleas?
      Is it the spawn of an unseen beast?
      Is it the product of mold or yeast?

      Don't ask me why I ponder this,
      'tis just some 'enlightenment' that I miss.

      ( /\ )

      sam

      _______________________________________________________________________-

      > What is the meaning of life?

      I am the meaning of life.

      ---Petros

      ______________________________________________________________________

      Give me truth... or give me death...
      said the 'Human' with his last breath.

      Truth*... obliged... as is Its* way,
      his 'still small voice'... he heard say,
      "Truth* is All... is to all revealed...
      the moment... the lips are ever sealed."

      So what's the hurry... may I ask?
      Seeking Truth* is not our main task!
      To live a full life... is why we are here.
      To live life... Now... without regret or fear.

      * = whatever word the reader chooses.

      ( /\ )

      sam

      ____________________________________________________________________

      > What is the meaning of life?
      >

      Simply to find meaning.

      ---Tim Harris

      _______________________________________________________________________


      I don't consider that I'm "seeking" truth (as truth is there already and
      cannot be sought), rather the desire is for ignorance to be lifted, for
      truth to be *experienced* (after being known). A subtle difference, but
      present nonetheless.

      That said, define "living a full life?" Some would say that the purpose
      we are here is to evolve, to know ourselves, even to stop the wheel of
      death and rebirth and join again with Eternal Source. I would agree
      with them. THIS is what I meant. This is what my "life's work" is, the
      central task: to know who I am, and to do so requires knowing truth.
      All else pales before this. Life is a stage, and "we" the players.
      Forgetting this, we think we are the characters in the play, and are
      thus enmired in ignorance. From such a viewpoint, "living a full life"
      is impossible. Truth therefore *has* to come first.

      ---Tim Gerchmez

      ______________________________________________________________________

      How people express their truth will always vary. A diamond has
      many facets which all reflect the same light in many different colors
      according to their uniqueness. Ramana Maharshi never strayed away from
      Arunachala after he got there. Ramakrishna Paramhansa stayed more or
      less in the same place. His student Vivekananda preached his gospel even
      here in the U.S. Mahatma Gandhi became an advocate for the poor and the
      downtrodden and was a champion for the philosophy of nonviolence. My
      teacher in 1942, (around the age of 20 and deeply disappointed in life
      and wanting to know the truth eternal) told Gandhiji that he was leaving
      the nonviolence movement to become a Jain monk and asked for parting
      advice. The Mahatma understood the nature of that aspiration. He smiled
      at the young man and said, "Always live in the light of truth." The
      Jaina tradition, the religion of my teacher, focuses a great deal on
      social service and the philosophy of nonviolence. The Jaina and Hindu
      religions, although somewhat different are intertwined. Lord Krishna's
      cousin was one of the Jain Tirthankaras. A list that I started, ACOWPAL
      (Ahimsa Council of World Peace and Love) is struggling to survive and
      grow. I would like to invite you all to join, especially if you are
      interested in nonviolence and its practical manifestations. The list is
      not very active. I am not that interested in it being active in terms of
      frequency of posts. But it would be nice to have a presence there of
      people interested in exploring the notion of Ahimsa. Thanks. Love you
      all.........
      Click below to join ..................................Harsha
      <http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/ACOWPAL>

      _______________________________________________________________________


      >If someone asked you what it is to know the nondual perspective, what
      >would you say?


      being what is eternal.
      being that which supports the truth of who i am.

      ---zero

      and Tim Gerchmez responded as follows:

      To know the nondual perspective is to have experienced, even "briefly,"
      the Self (Atman) or Ultimate Reality (Brahman) underlying the entirety
      of creation.

      Of course, this is not "ultimate knowledge," just a tiny little taste.
      But once something is tasted, that flavor is known.


      ______________________________________________________________________

      >What practice do you have?

      Many. Mostly unification of desire into one: a burning desire for truth
      at all costs, even death.

      ---Tim Gerchmez


      _______________________________________________________________________

      "Free to Be"

      To be something you're not;
      is that really so hot?
      Be just what you ARE,
      and you will go far.
      Look deep into yourself,
      and there you will see...
      That what lies inside,
      is ecstatically free.

      A divided mind,
      will fall far behind;
      "I don't want to be here"
      always generates fear.
      "I would rather be there"
      Get it out of your hair!

      Accept where you are,
      look dispassionately;
      and you'll find the best way,
      is to KNOW and to BE.

      Don't polarize mind,
      like a magnet, my friend;
      To accept where you're at,
      is to be able to bend;
      like a reed in life's winds,
      and at last you will see;
      that the reed, not the rock;
      is the life that is Free.

      ---Tim Gerchmez

      _____________________________________________________________________

      >Is it possible to see yourself as you are?

      not right now.
      there is nothing to see.
      i am the dream, not the dreamer.

      ---zero

      ______________________________________________________________________

      >Is this, here and now, I AM?
      >
      what this?
      there is only I AM.

      ---zero

      _______________________________________________________________________

      >What impact does this list community have on your daily life?

      i find it to be communion. i like to laugh. i like to wonder.
      all are my own true self, and i enjoy watching the movie.
      pass the popcorn.

      ---zero

      _______________________________________________________________________

      work is unnecessary. the self is already. most feel that "it can't be
      that simple" and feel that many mechanations are necessary. there is
      nothing wrong with yoga, prayer, reading, & etc. but finding the self
      is not work at all. it is stopping working. in the story of king
      janaka and ashtavakra, janaka is at the river repeating his mantra, over
      and over. "I AM THAT!" his guru ashtavakra come along on the other
      bank and starts shouting, "THIS IS MY WATER BOWL." This disturbs
      janaka in his practice, so he shouts, "Who says that's not your water
      bowl?" Ashtavakra shouts back, "Who says you are not that?"

      ---zero

      ________________________________________________________________________


      > Is it possible to see yourself as you are?

      The seer is sight itself.

      > Why are you present?

      Good question: from one of the nondual perspectives, that boils down
      (sorry
      Gene) to "Why is the Self present"?


      >From where does the ego arise?

      From the difference between experience and the memory of that experience
      (not to be elaborated).


      > What impact does this list community have on your daily life?

      It's a good excuse to leave the house in a mess.

      ---questions 'answered' by jb
      _______________________________________________________________________

      >Is it possible to see yourself as you are?


      This was my favorite question.

      I can spend hours and hours on this one.

      It keeps moving 'me' around and around
      and around. I could write and write
      about where this question has taken me....

      but instead I'll simply say...from
      where I've been with it so far, "No".

      ---Melody
      _______________________________________________________________________


      >If someone asked you what it is to know the nondual perspective, what
      >would you say?


      This actually just happened to me this morning, I was asked to explain
      "it"... and after listening at length to the other person's reasoning
      and insistence that reality really is dualistic, its a world made up of
      opposites .. I finally said, "Reality is neutral ... until we make it
      dual." At least they paused to stop and think about that.

      ---Glo

      ______________________________________________________________________
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