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Highlights for Wednesday

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  • Melody
    Hi everyone! I m sorry about the delay in receiving the highlights, folks. I realized this morning...looking in my Out folder.... that you all could
    Message 1 of 1 , Dec 24, 1999
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      Hi everyone!

      I'm sorry about the delay in receiving the highlights, folks. I realized
      this morning...looking in my 'Out' folder.... that you all could probably
      read this easier if I actually *mailed* it to you. LOL!

      ND highlights for Wednesday, December 22

      Merry Christmas everyone!

      Melody

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      Glo had written:

      Perhaps there is a down side to having these peak experiences with
      with God and nothing after ever can match that bliss felt.


      Kristie responds:

      Xan posted a note the other day on a kundalini experience that
      inspired three days of "bliss" and a re-newed awareness (my words) of the
      sactity of all other beings........

      Since then I have been pondering, again, the two months I lived in that
      state of mind on the streets.....on the enormous loss of the loss of that
      space....how in many ways that loss crippled my "natural"
      growing.............so I like what you wrote and resonated with it
      strongly......those peak experiences are life altering.....you'll never be
      the same again....now they come in moments or seconds or days........but
      God!!!!! I want it all back.....the wanting could kill ya!!! More lessons in
      desire!

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      from Andrew:

      The golden nutcracker,
      who was a tough nut to crack,
      sees tough nuts everywhere,
      and driven by compassion,
      moves to crack them.
      But some of those around
      are not nuts at all
      but softer things
      like eggs perhaps,
      or flowers.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      offered by new member, Jackie Leve (aka killerbutterfly)


      Bullet With Butterfly Wings
      The Smashing Pumpkins

      the world is a vampire, sent to drain
      secret destroyers, hold you up to the flames
      and what do i get, for my pain
      betrayed desires, and a piece of the game
      even though i know - i suppose i'll show
      all my cool and cold - like old job
      despite all my rage i am still just a rat in a cage
      then someone will say what is lost can never be saved
      despite all my rage i am still just a rat in a cage
      now i'm naked, nothing but an animal
      but can you fake it, for just one more show
      and what do you want, i want to change
      and what have you got
      when you feel the same
      even though i know - i suppose i'll show
      all my cool and cold - like old job
      despite all my rage i am still just a rat in a cage
      then someone will say what is lost can never be saved
      despite all my rage i am still just a rat in a cage
      tell me i'm the only one
      tell me there's no other one
      jesus was an only son
      tell me i'm the chosen one
      jesus was an only son for you
      despite all my rage i am still just a rat in a cage
      and i still believe that i cannot be saved

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      Jan:

      Two thousand years of just decline
      Yet some will cheer while others whine
      The world is mad
      So it is said
      Yet some will say it's fine

      Hey is it Yama's party, dear?
      Let's celebrate that with a cheer
      As you can see
      The food is free
      Please can I have another beer?

      An occultist sits in his room
      His vision has galactic zoom
      he wants to go
      escape the show
      Of madness and impending doom

      The vision of a lighted cave
      With singing of inspired stave
      He cuts things short
      With teleport
      It's called the siddhi "save"

      For teleport one needs a fee
      One that's too big for you or me
      Give up the "I"
      Or let it fry
      And one is ever free.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      also from Jan:

      First read this disclaimer and then relax
      The following could hit some like an ax
      It is only pun
      It is meant to be fun
      Received out of hell with an obsolete fax

      Some like to play master
      To awaken one faster
      exert a shock
      to loosen a block
      But sometimes that is a disaster

      Some have seen the light but never seen the lamp
      They are the ones with sight who do not see the damp
      What works for me
      It works for thee
      So just endure a little cramp

      Sometimes one proclaims to be master
      For some that it is fun but for others, disaster
      Some laugh out loud
      While the others bout
      Goo ruing asked by another forecaster

      One cannot prove that one is free
      For more than words one cannot see
      So just be still
      And wait until
      No trace is left of "me".

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      Bruce:

      NDS is in turmoil these days,
      there's some crying, some theories, some praise
      "It's all grist for the mill,"
      says the one who stands, still,
      "in the end it's the piper who pays!"

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      Greg provides lots of Buddhist links:

      I've divided the clutter here into 4 parts:

      1. INTRO
      2. BOOKS
      3. VAST BUDDHIST STUDY RESOURCES ON THE WEB
      4. WEBSITES WITH WRITINGS ON EMPTINESS OR NO-SELF

      ===========
      1. INTRO
      ===========
      Here are some links on nondualism in Madhyamika (Middle Way) Buddhism, with
      an emphasis on the Middle Way Consequence School, which considers itself
      the "highest" path metaphysically. It doesn't say that the time required
      for its enlightenment (one lifetime, if you do tantra) is as quick as
      Dzogchen does (one instant). But it does say that all other schools leave
      some remainder of subtle grasping at something or other. About Dzogchen it
      would say that Dzogchen grasps at the notion of a permanent self or
      essence. It is the same thing it says about Advaita Vedanta.

      Nonduality in Madhyamika Buddhism is called emptiness, and it can be a
      brainy thing when you first encounter its teachings. In the Tibetan
      teaching traditions, it is taught only to the able student of very
      promising intellect. It is not easy to understand, and with a personal
      teacher it will be given in gauged levels and doses, so as not to dissuade
      the student. It can actually be *frightening*. Even the higher teachings
      of Advaita Vedanta can frighten some students, and Madhyamika, even moreso.
      Madhyamika is often considered to be downright nihilistic by Vedantins.
      In the West, philosophers try to write about it. Some of the links below
      are by Western philosophers.

      The Internet is not the *best* way to learn about non-duality in Buddhism.
      If you don't have access to a teacher who can teach it to you, the next
      best way is through books.

      Here's a rough quality-control key:

      ===========================
      *** very good
      ** good
      * better than average
      ===========================

      ==========
      2. BOOKS
      ==========
      The best two books that are easily accessible and clear are these two,
      handy at most Barnes & Noble, and at amazon.com:

      ***EMPTINESS YOGA, by Jeffrey Hopkins. No link for this one, but you can
      find reviews at amazon.com I'm sure. He gives you meditations so you can
      understand what Buddhist emptiness is.

      ***THE FUNDAMENTAL WISDOM OF THE MIDDLE WAY: NAGARJUNA'S
      MULAMADHYAMIKAKARIKA. By Jay L. Garfield. Oxford University Press, 1995.
      ppb. The first chapter appeared as an article given below. (see Dependent
      Arising and the Emptiness of Emptiness below)
      Preview of the book at:
      http://www.oup-usa.org/docs/0195103173.html


      =============================================
      3. VAST BUDDHIST STUDY RESOURCES ON THE WEB
      =============================================

      ***Buddhist Resource file - Not so much about emptiness, but this it the
      largest source of links on Buddhism on the Net. A great resource.
      http://ccbs.ntu.edu.tw/BRF/


      ***Buddhist Studies WWW Virtual Library - another mammoth listing of
      Buddhist resources. Pretty well categorized.
      http://www.ciolek.com/WWWVL-Buddhism.html


      ===================================================
      4. WEBSITES WITH WRITINGS ON EMPTINESS OR NO-SELF
      ===================================================

      ***The Tree of Enlightenment: An Introduction to the Major Traditions of
      Buddhism
      by Peter Della Santina. Chapter on Madhyamika:
      http://www.ecst.csuchico.edu/~dsantina/tree/ch18.txt


      **The Two Truths, by Denmo Loch� Rinpoche. Denmo Loch� Rinpoche, the
      ex-abbot of Namgyel, His Holiness the Dalai Lama's monastery in Dharamsala,
      India, taught for two weeks at Root Institute in Bodhgaya, India December
      1995. Here is an extract. Translated by Ven Gareth Sparham.
      http://www.fpmt.org/Teachings/twotruths.html


      *Epoche and `Suunyataa: Skepticism East and West, by Jay Garfield.
      A very insightful writer on the relation between Western skepticism and
      Buddhist Emptiness.
      http://sino-sv3.sino.uni-heidelberg.de/FULLTEXT/JR-PHIL/grafiel3.htm


      **Problematics of the Buddhist nature of self, by Kenneth Inada.
      Heavy philosophical article on the nature of the anaatman ("nonself") idea
      in Buddhism.
      http://sino-sv3.sino.uni-heidelberg.de/FULLTEXT/JR-PHIL/inada1.htm

      *Naagaarjuna and Zeno on motion
      http://sino-sv3.sino.uni-heidelberg.de/FULLTEXT/JR-PHIL/mabbet2.htm


      ***Dependent Arising and the Emptiness of Emptiness: Why Did Nagarjuna
      Start with
      Causation? By Jay Garfield
      http://pears2.lib.ohio-state.edu/FULLTEXT/JR-PHIL/garfild3.htm


      **Textbook list for a course in "Nonduality in Tibetan and Indian Thought"
      at Columbia University
      http://www.columbia.edu/itc/religion/nonduality/textbooks.html


      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      Jerry responds to new member, Jay:


      Jay:

      > Folks!
      >
      > The title of this list gave me the impression that here I could find a
      > discussion (or several) that found it's inspiration and had its direction
      > from a "non-dualistic" perspective. It appears that here, like contemporary
      > novels, the title of something doesn't necessarily have much to do with the
      > actual content.


      Jerry:
      Hi Jay. You're not related to Jay Leno, are you? Hey, just
      kidding. Besides, it doesn't have anything to do with
      nondual content.

      I think you'll find that what is going on here is that
      people who naturally tend to see things from a nondual view,
      are bringing different aspects of their lives here. My late
      wife used to say: "If they'll fight With you, they'll fight
      For you." So if there's a cacophony, it's familial. Now I
      know, we shouldn't be 'fighting' at all.


      Jay:
      >It's all about attracting market share vis-a-vis getting
      > your attention.

      Jerry:
      Don't be silly. SEX!!

      Jay:
      >Tittillating, to be sure. Descriptive? Maybe a little. I
      > would go more with suggestive. But hey, I'm okay with that. One more thing I
      > noticed: The title of this list is negative. *Non*duality.
      > Hmmm...interesting that we don't have a more affirming word for what it is
      > we are trying to apprehend. I can think of a few, but I don't want to be
      > pushy. It's only my first day here! (And I really don't like pissing
      > contests.)

      > So, as I was following the threads on this list, and what an action-packed
      > list this is!, I noticed some dualistic thinking creeping into the postings.
      > "Objective" vs. "subjective" competition, "mind"/"heart" and "mind"/"body"
      > dichotomies, etc. Just an observation...or maybe I'm trying to state an
      > opinion? I'm not really sure. It has been so long since I have had the
      > opportunity to express what I'm thinking about to a group that shares
      > similar goals. I have to get my bearings before I can effectively
      > participate here.

      Jerry:
      I wouldn't know what to make of this group if I had just
      stumbled upon it.

      Jay:
      > Another observation: There is a lot of passive and overt aggression here
      > and, perhaps more telling, a strong reaction to the aggression. This is
      > fertile ground for catharsis, in my experience. A good time to reflect on
      > those aspects in our lives that are, well, perhaps unsavory. I know I'm at
      > risk of fanning the flames here when I say this, but thank you for that!

      Jerry:
      I agree with that.

      Jay:
      > Okay, last observation. A few people have mentioned that it was difficult
      > for them to understand the postings of another. This is a common dilemma in
      > discussions of this nature. We tend to get too technical and
      > self-referential in our explications and too insulated in our abilities to
      > understand what is being expressed. The challenge for me here will be to
      > focus on the communication that takes place between the pixels, as it were,
      > as well as to build a common language. I look forward to taking that on.
      >
      > I have dipped my toe in the water -- it was a bit tepid...
      >
      > PS: Thanks for the welcome Neo and Jerry!

      Jerry:
      Thanks for being open-minded and knowing where to look. Are
      you sure you're not related to Jay Leno?
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