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  • andrew macnab
    Message 1 of 1 , Dec 21, 1999
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      Dear Saloner,

      You are always free and safe to express yourself, though you
      may not be spared thoughtful challenge.

      While leadership here is hard to pinpoint, know that
      leadership is not in the hands of one would make you feel
      constricted or inhibited. Such a one would be undergoing
      their own 'process', but nobody has to kowtow to that one,
      or even pay much attention to them.

      be free here, sing, dance, wax poetic, release your heart
      like a flock of doves, one or two which might get hurt in
      the wing and downed, but multitudes of which will fly


      Hello friends...

      As many of you know, this week is an unusually good time to abide, to
      meditate, to clear out the dross, to surrender with reverence... to rest
      in I AM.

      This Wednesday is the Solstice. The Stillpoint. The time when the rhythm
      of the season is in breath pause before its slow arc back to renewed
      life in the Spring. The pulses of Life are quelled and we, if we attend
      with inner organs of perception, are poised to receive.

      This particular year bears a phenomena worth noting. The Solstice
      distance is counterbalanced by the Lunar proximity. Some say the deeper
      radiance of Mother Light... of the feminine. I have attached information
      about the lunar dynamic below.

      I submit, with humility, that we consider what it might be like to enter
      the Nonduality Salon or Chat with pure awareness of the Background,
      poised to receive what might want to emerge within our collective body.

      submitted with Love,

      FULL MOON DECEMBER 22, 1999 --
      This year, a full moon will occur on the winter solstice, Dec. 22,
      commonly called the first day of winter. The last time a full moon on
      the winter solstice occurred in conjunction with a lunar perigee (point
      in the moon's orbit that is closest to Earth) was 1866.

      Our ancestors 133 years ago saw this. Our descendants 100 or so
      years from now will see this again. The moon will appear about 14%
      larger than it does at apogee (the point in its elliptical orbit that is
      farthest from the Earth) since the Earth is also several million miles
      closer to the sun at this time of the year than in the summer, sunlight
      striking the moon is about 7% stronger making it brighter yet. Also,
      this will be the closest perigee of the Moon of the year since the
      moon's orbit is constantly deforming. If the weather is clear and there
      is a snow cover where you live, it is believed that even car headlights
      will be superfluous.


      Hello friends..

      Tonight as I light my fourth Advent candle, I do so holding in awareness
      our collective human and true ether-net body. I light the last candle of

      I have used this last week to reflect upon what it means to be human.

      This week I enter the sanctuary of That which I Am, having to pass
      through the outer layer of disonnance created by that which still
      resides so tenaciously in the shadows of ignorance. The layer is thinner
      this year, purer, less atonal.

      That we, humans can evolve (perhaps, to a new form of creaturehood, one
      which knows itself moved by and through Awareness) is a fact of Light
      which has always guided humanity. It seems to me that this recognition
      is a given after an essential choice of soul is made. Companionship and
      stewardship are the vehicles for this graceful flow.

      Yet along the way, the challenges of the human condition, like magnets,
      seek to thwart the directive. It is during this season, that I make anew
      the Vow of Choice; awaken the slumbering parts which are mesmerized by
      the magnets; strengthen the bonds of companionship and prepare the
      manger on the altar of my heart... in anticipation of the Light born
      anew this cycle. I experience this on a cellular level.. the level of
      human creaturehood. Christos.. annointing the cells with Light and the
      warm viscocity of an energy I know as Love.

      I thank you for creating a sanctuary of freedom, withinwhich I
      can share this journey. May this week be a joy filled preparatory for
      all of you. May the Living Light rest upon your awakened hearts.

      with love,

      > >Tim:

      > Do you know how many in history have tried to "save the
      > world?" It seems to me the ultimate in egotism to dream of saving the
      > world. To help one person is to save the world.

      Save yourself first then see if there is a world left to


      > > > > I have read of some saints who lived for many years
      > > > without eating.
      > >
      > > <snip>
      > >
      > > > xan
      > > ********* Well let's be sure and invite them to our parties,
      > > because we won't have to worry about them double dipping. :-)
      > >
      > > --
      > > Happy Days,
      > > Judi
      > Dan: But the waiters will have to worry about them never tipping.

      But have you ever seen them order? It's like this: "For an
      appetizer I'll have a dish of fresh air from the Himalayas.
      Now I don't want it too cool or too warm. I'll send it back
      if it's not just right. After that I'll have a tank of
      Pacific Seabreeze. Now last time it had a slight fishy smell
      and I got pissed off at the chef. I'll have your job if
      there's the slightest fishy smell, understand? With dinner
      I'll have a liter of Rocky Mountain Clear."

      Moral of the story: the restaurant business is the
      restaurant business, people are still people, and waitering
      is probably the hardest job there is.



      Dan: I'm wanting a red-eye special. A glass of
      of Manhattan Skyline with a twist of Chernobyl Afterglow...

      Passing along this link to a friend's really cool mandala like images. And
      if you have the time to read, he tells about his own awakening process thru
      a short story, accompanied by great graphics. Dave's relaxed humor and
      peacefulness is very enjoyable. Please let him know you dropped by.


      I've expanded the website
      at the bottom of here:
      there's a link to a companion place called
      including, a gallery of some of my images.
      let me know what you think.


      Greg to Tim:
      >>You say that you have never experienced a silent teaching over the Internet
      >>or from a book, and say a bit about how these media make the experience not
      >>a great one for you. Then you say that therefore "there is no way to gain
      >>that knowing" over the Internet or from a book. Isn't that a non-sequitur,
      >>starting from your own experience, and ending up with "there is no way"?
      >Wait Greg!! Just when I was going to tell Tim that I have experienced this,
      >so it must be true?? :) Over the internet, from words, without words, seeing
      >a smile in a video.. is my experience worth nothing now?
      Dear Gloria,

      I think I'm saying the same thing as you! For me, many if not most of the
      teachings, silent and otherwise, that have come my way have been through
      books. Maybe I wasn't clear in my message to Tim, but I was saying he
      can't reasonably conclude from his own experience that
      books/internet/videos are ineffective for everyone else.

      With love,

      Christiana: In the beginning was the Word...
      Living Words are energy sculptures. Inner senses can perceive the
      intelligence which does not need physicality for transport.

      There is an interesting book entitled _Four Spiritualities: Expressions
      of self, expressions of spirit: a psychology of contemporary spiritual
      choices_ by Peter Tufts Richardson. He uses Jung's personality typology
      indicators as lens to assess how one experiences Spirit.

      Where I think this applies to this discussion is that we receive and
      interpret in large measure according to our hardwiring. For an
      Introvert, Intuitive, Feeler such as myself, books and the Internet have
      the capacity to move me into direct inner experience. This may not be so
      for an Extrovert, Sensate, Thinker.

      The Word.. shows up according to our capacitance.


      Whether or not someone is 'a realized being', is a lovely concept. To me it
      was anyway. I used to have all kinds of ideas about what a realized being
      was, what characteristics he was supposed to have, what kinds of things he
      would or absolutely wouldn't ever do.
      Most certainly Internet was excluded from my list of possibly 'realized
      Of course, looking at this in retrospect, saying 'not possible' was asking
      for trouble.
      The concept was sitting there, simply asking for it.
      Begging to be proven wrong.
      To be proven wrong about this concept, turned out to be my greatest victory.
      Even internet, even words, even a video, darn, even the whole world is
      realized being.
      What a fool I was,
      (still am, willingly)
      suffocating in my pride of believing my 'good judgement', to be any kind of
      usable scale. As if realized beingness can be weighed and measured. As if it
      can be determined, what it is, what it looks like, what it does, how it
      I'm still coughing.


      I have been at heavens door and so this comes from my experience.
      There are not two selves. The I that you feel is the self. When the I
      confines itself to identification with a body then you have the small
      self filled with fear, isolation, and the dream of death.

      When the identification with the body dissolves then that same I is
      seen everywhere. It fills the body, all that you see around you is I.
      There is unity of all that you see in this I. There is a
      foreground/background shift where before the objects of the world were
      in the foreground and your sense of I was small and in the background.
      With awakening the I expands and intensifies to such an extent that it
      becomes the foreground and all else is seen in this I as part of it.
      Hope this helps.

      Peace, neo

      Hello Gene,

      A gazillion posts ago, but only a moment away from my heart, you wrote
      the below power-filled response to my questions regarding criteria. I've
      been sitting with these thoughts, even as I've been dozing off again and
      again into the world dream. Tonight upon rereading your words.. after
      having posted several posts, I found myself feeling deeply embarrassed.
      Not an embarrassment evoking shame, but one of a profound shift in

      I've extracted a few statements (full letter below):

      > >>Gene: Questions as to 'what is real' are all based on the
      > assumption that something is real; and that what is real,
      > is the standard by which the reality of everything else is
      > to be known.

      > >>I offer, that what is real, are the criteria by which we
      > judge. I say that only these criteria are real; they form
      > the mirror which reflects all of what is judged.

      Christiana: So, are you saying that criteria, based upon world dream
      agreements, create a somewhat seamless lens which seeks 'reality' only
      in accordance with it's model? How does this make it 'real'. Or are you
      saying that the only reality is the one assigned by the value base of
      criteria? Remove criteria and alleged reality vanishes?

      Gene:> We fool ourselves if we assume that we are choosing our own

      Christiana: I understand you are referencing the momentum of criteria
      specifically, but is there no 'choice' happening? I grasp the movement
      of 'choiceless awareness', yet grapple with the sense that vigilence is
      a choice I seem to be making.

      > Gene: The battle is for the retention
      > of identity, and thus acceptance. Identity, no matter how lowly,
      > unworthy-seeming, or embarassing, is what is being fought for. Please
      > consider that this battle for identity can only take place within the
      > context of the 'world-dream'.

      > The factors which form identity, are originally of the world-dream;
      > subsequent re-enforcement of identity requires participation in the
      > world-dream, for that is where the data of identity is found. Thus, any
      > person who makes decisions, who concludes, who states 'truth' as though it
      > is 'real', is actually re-enforcing their attachment to the world-dream.
      > Using the referents of the world-dream (such as reading and writing in
      > language) tends to immerse one deeply into the world-dream. As is oft
      > pointed out, it is difficult if not impossible to dig oneself out of the
      > dream, using tools which occur ONLY within the dream itself.

      Christiana: Yes... I keep picking these tools up again and again.. they
      have served me well, till now.. faithful friends. Bittersweet tears in
      recognition of their ebbing usefulness.

      Gene>> 'Nonduality' advocates the voluntary releasing of all identity,
      and the 'return' to original nature.

      Christiana: I voluntarily enlist in this release. There's a *apparent*
      lot here to be released!

      Gene:> One of the best things to come of continual
      > is the realization that we need not offer anything to anyone. I am saying
      > that if we perceive such a need, that it is a clue that we are still in
      > reaction, rather than conscious choice-mode. Humanity does not need
      > anything it does not have; it needs, instead, to take advantage of the
      > ever-present opportunity to realize that 'there is only self'.

      Christiana: Thank you again Gene.. 'there is only self' is not yet a
      fully awakened nor integrated knowing for me. I trust that it is so and
      as such remain vigilant of the tendency towards separation.

      There is within me a deep knowing of Love and it has always moved
      outward.. Now I wonder if that direction perhaps is aspect of the
      'criteria' of idealism. I asked Jerry what the difference between this
      'Love' and 'I Am' were, and he suggested that I turn from the outward
      flow right into the Source. Quite a gestalt! Thank you again, Jerry.

      from the Source of Love,

      from a letter of Thomas Merton to Catherine de Hueck Doherty, September 18,
      thanks to Father Patrick Collins, thomasmerton@onelist

      "After so boldly advertising to the world that I was out to become a
      saint, I find I am doing a pretty bum job of it...
      "But it certainly is a wonderful thing to wake up suddenly in the
      solitude of the woods and look up at the sky and see the utter nonsense
      of everything, including all the solemn stuff given out by professional
      asses about the spiritual life: and simply to burst out laughing, and
      laugh and laugh, with the sky and the trees because God is not in words,
      and not in systems, and not in liturgical movements, and not in
      "Contemplation" with a big C, or in asceticism or in anything like that,
      not even in the apostolate. Certainly not in books. I can go on
      writing them, for all that, but one might as well make paper airplanes
      out of the whole lot."


      I'm trying to point at the distinction between objective and subjective
      competition. If you engage in subjective competition then you are
      actually *being* competitive and, from a non-dual understanding, that's
      pointless. You might as well put your urges to use and sign up to be an
      investment banker.

      I'm interested in objective competition. I'd like to talk *about*
      competition without actually *being* competitive. The more completely
      competition is an *object* of your attention, the less you will actually
      fall prey to *being* competitive. It's actually not easy as it sounds
      and may take some practice.

      Hope this helps.
      Competition is more important than anything else. Once competition is
      settled then I'd be happy to discussion whatever you'd like.

      Did it ever occur to you,
      Joshua, that you may be
      mistaking a particularly
      pervasive symptom for the
      underlying dis-ease that
      actually "is more
      important than anything
      else?" You might find it
      worth a ponder....

      I don't understand how your comment squares with the situation. Would
      you mind spelling it out explicitly?

      The world is the OK Corral,
      bullets and buckshot are
      flying as both participants
      and bystanders fall,
      bleeding, to the ground.
      After investigating the
      requisite physiology,
      hydraulics, and related
      quantifiable phenomena,
      Joshua builds a webpage
      about bleeding and declares
      that "bleeding is more
      important than anything
      else." I am proposing to
      you that competition is a
      symptom and not the actual
      disease requiring our

      >I am at peace as non-duality. Yet, I am interested in solving relative
      >problems that seem to arise in the illusion of life. It is relatively
      >real, after all. In return I might ask what one is suppose to discuss
      >on a non-duality mailing list. I mean, what can you possibly say about

      Dan: Hmmmm... that It is not in competition with duality. Before you
      fix a relative problem, you might enquire into what makes relativity
      relative. If everything in relativity is related to everything
      else in relativity, then who is it who is attempting to stand
      outside of a relative problem and "solve" it? If there is no position
      outside of relativity (and positioning, by definition,
      is a relative activity), then the one who is trying to fix the problem
      may not be other than the problem itself.

      Dan: Logic is useful for discovering its own limits.
      Logic is useful for discovering its uses
      and its nonuses.
      Then, logic opens itself to the Namelessness
      that never could be made logical.





      love, andrew
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