No remedy, no fight
No seer, no sight
In the moon light
grass is glistening
All alone in dark of night
Who is speaking?
Who is listening?
in the glistening grass
under moon light pass
Never alone in dark of night
who is speaking?
who is listening?
With Her kiss all questions
To Tim and Jerry and all other "odd" dears today:
Be quiet - shhh!
Could it be?
Me and Thee?
Thank you - thank you.
See but no belonging
Where am I?
Here but no here.
Joy! but no elation
its new creation.
Left behind, but met anew
Oh my Smile, Thank you! Thank you!
Drop the topic.
Drop the spinning mind.
Drop "inherent perception of existence"
Always loved that full moon!
Sure it will come back soon
It is so hilarious
we are entering the age of Aquarius
and today is very bright and sunny
I think you guys are totally funny
friend of mine just adopted a bunny
I suppose we all need money
to buy morning tea with honey
Think I will have another cup
cause I don't have any hiccups!
Some quotes from oddballs: ,^))
"O Love, can it be that thou has called me with so great a
Love, and made me to know in one instant that which words
"As salt resolved in the ocean, I was swallowed in God's
sea; past faith, past unbelieving, past doubt, past
Suddenly in my bosom, a star shone clear and bright; All the
suns of heaven vanished in that star's light."
"From about half past ten in the evening to about half an
hour after midnight, Fire!!
....Absolutely Certainty: Beyond reason. Joy. Peace.
Forgetfulness of the world and everything but God. The
world has not known Thee, but I have known Thee. Joy!
Joy! Joy! Tears of Joy!"
"Confronted with the Divine Essence the one who speaks
becomes dumb, the one who is agitated becomes motionless,
the one who sees becomes blinded.
It is too noble to be grasped by intelligences, too lofty
for thoughts to reach it...
The one who breaks the seal is with God in His Essence."
"The Divine Mother revealed to me in the Kali Temple that it
was She who had become everything. She showed me that
everything was full of Consciousness. The image was
Consciousness; the altar was Consciousness, the water
vessels were Consciousness, the door sill was Consciousness.
That was why I fed a cat with the food that was to be
offered to the Divine Mother. I clearly perceived that All
this was the Divine Mother - even the cat." Ramakrishna
"At midnight I abruptly awakened. At first my mind was
foggy, then suddenly that quotation flashed into my
consciousness: 'I came to realize clearly that Mind is no
other than mountains, river, and the great wide earth, the
sun and the moon and the star.' And I repeated it.
Then all at once I was struck as though by lightning, and
the next instant heaven and earth crumbled and disappeared.
Instantaneously, like surging waves, a tremendous delight
welled up in me, a veritable hurricane of delight, as I
laughed loudly and wildly:
'Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha! the empty sky split in two, then
opened its enormous mouth and began to laugh uproariously:
'Ha, ha, ha!'"
Lu (Zen Buddhist)
"How can you face light without being blinded, How can one
arrest the secret of secrets Without being dumbfounded and
How can one undergo transformation Without being SHATTERED?"
Ramani Ammal (from the Ramana Maharshi Newsletters):
I once remember a Harijan lady who for the past twenty-five
years was gathering honey to send to Sri Bhagavan. On every
occasion she was unable to bring the honey herself and had
to send it with someone. After waiting for twenty-five
years, she finally found the opportunity to come. The poor
lady was in tattered clothes, standing before Bhagavan. Her
eyesight was poor and I still vividly recall the unusual way
she looked at Sri Bhagavan, calling out "Oh Darling, where
are you ? I want to see you." Bhagavan in all his
graciousness said, "Granny, look this way. I am here."
Looking at the honey she had brought with her, he said to
me, "They are Brahmins, they won't eat this. We will share
it, and eat it."
It is often said, Bhagavan did not give direct Upadesa, but
what else is all this ?
Although Bhagavan repeatedly pointed out human frailty,
people were not prepared to rectify themselves.
As if talking to himself, he looked at this poor old woman
in ragged clothes and said, "Poor lady, she must be hungry.
And where will she go for clothes ? Who will offer her food
and clothes ?" Upon hearing this, Ondu Reddiyar got up and
said, "We will give her food and also see that some clothes
Then Reddiyar took the woman to the Dining Hall and fed her
sumptuously. He also sent someone to town to buy her a
sari. As the old woman had no money, she had walked a great
distance to come here. Bhagavan knowing this, said in an
impersonal way, "Would anyone be interested in getting her a
bus ticket ?"
Reddiyar again came forward and said, "We will provide her
with a bus ticket and see her off."
When this lady returned from the Dining Hall she was
touching the ground, and then touching her eyes. T
It is because one believes attack is happening that
compassion arises. Compassion is a concept perpetuated when
a belief in suffering is being clung to.
I view compassion a bit differently.
Compassion is free to flow only when the "I" perspective has
So "I" can only recognize compassion in retrospect.......
looking backwards....to the past...
remembering those moments when "I" had seemingly faded away.
As long as there is 'intention'....as long as the world is
viewed thru the world of "I",
compassion is *not*.....no matter how benevolent or
charitable the act.....
Speaking only for my self, those times I 'thought' I was
acting out of compassion...*as* I was responding to another,
I was simply deceiving my self.
Ran across 2,3 good links tonight.
This one is on the practice of tonglen, sending others
goodness and taking in their suffering. It has excellent
commentaries by Trungpa and Osho.
This one is part of a larger site and has many interesting
Within this "articles" section is Thomas Byrom's translation
of the "The Heart Of Awareness" (Ashtavakra Gita"). The
direct link is http://www.swcp.com/~robicks/gita00.htm
Better than agreement or disagreement-- amusement. I am so
glad that you are not on my kill list Andrew.
I personally don't find scientific knowledge any more or
less dead than any other knowledge but I can see how it
could be thought to be.
How about some more of your excellent poetry?
Understanding and effort are useless, we know nothing at
Every action is a futile and meaningless effort.
Every concept is empty fabrication, even the concept of
What I think is real is only the idea of real.
It's all right not to understand. It's all right not to
It's all right not to understand. It's all right not to
I live on the earth to live on the earth.
Living is simply the consequence of being born.
It is perfect and mysterious.
Scientific knowledge is dead knowledge, dissected. A
Philosophical knowledge is human speculation. A ghost with
soul but no foundation.
Realization can only be intuitive, from an unnamable
source. It cannot be learned, it cannot be understood.
It's all right not to understand. It's all right not to
Yesterday, Andrew and I had one of our very nice luncheons
(as opposed to lunch; whatever happened to luncheon? I
guess Power Luncheon doesn't sound very ... Powerful.
Anyway, I digress.)
We went out for Chinese food, and, still not quite sated,
completed the gastronomical affair with a stop at a Lebanese
Then Andrew surprised me in a few ways. First we stopped at
his brother's house. His brother is a well-known Nova
Scotia sculptor, working in wood and granite. His home has
13 foot high ceilings and houses some of his works and
Andrew revealed that he has a sister who is a doctor. And
Andrew himself is, of course, non definable. A mystic?
Poet? Sacred Tarot Card in this Deck? We know who he is
and can't say, but he influences the world.
The second surprise was a bottle of red wine made with Nova
Scotia grapes picked and pressed by Andrew. We went to my
house to indulge. It is a pure wine: only grapes, with
sugar added for fermentation. It is an inky dark, fruity,
full and luscious wine. Easy to drink too much! I'm going
to save it for when Andrew comes over and drink it only
In fact, the wine glasses stand unwashed, stained the purple
red of the wine, just as my mouth and teeth were. The best
wine I ever had.
The third surprise was pictures of Andrew, wife Carol, and
Antoine. See them at
Thanks for a nice time, Andrew. See you again, soon.
I've got an idea.....How about having a NDS retreat in
Canada? After looking at Andrew's pictures today, I really
really want to go. Nova Scotia is it?
Yes, Yes, Yes, and NDS retreat in Canada. I'll help
Thank you for sharing.. it seems so fitting that Andrew
would have vast open spaces to go with his inner space.
Your meeting remind me of this passage from Kerouac's Dharma
Bums..not that you are bums, no way, except in the best
"I see a vision of a great rucksack revolution, thousands or
even millions of young Americans wandering around with
rucksacks, going up mountains to pray, making children
laugh, and old men glad, making young girls happy, and old
girls happier, all of 'em Zen lunatics who go about writing
poems that happen to appear in their heads for no reason,
and also by being kind, and also by strange unexpected acts
keep giving visions of freedom to everybody and all living
creatures. We'll have a floating zendo...wild gangs of pure
holy men getting together to drink and talk and pray, think
of the waves of salvation that can flow out of nights (or
days) like that..."
That you do not wash the glasses says it all....
Last night I was puzzling over the "MU" question while in
meditation, and I think I may have solved it, I don't know.
The answer seemed to come back as "Dog does not have
Buddha-Nature, Buddha-Nature has dog." I don't know if this
answer is right or not. Something seems to have occurred.
My brain seems to have blown all its gaskets at once. All
my "spiritual knowledge" seems to have gone out the window,
and there is only this wordless, intense blissful reality
here. Any question I put to myself comes back "I don't
know." Will I still be able to participate here? I don't
know. I don't know anything anymore. It's all gone out the
Is this Nirvikalpa Samadhi? I don't know. Is this
"realization?" I don't know. Seriously, I don't know a
thing. I don't even know what happened, or if anything
happened. I was just meditating and puzzling over MU, and
everything I thought I knew went out the window. All gone.
And then I realized reality has been here all along, and
there was never ignorance.
If this is the last message I post to the list, anyone is
free to contact me, but I don't know what I'll say. I don't
know if I have anything to say anymore. This reality is so
intense and wordless that my body is trembling. I'm having
trouble even typing or putting this message together so it
makes sense. I don't even know, really, if I'm typing it at
all. If it shows up on the list, I just wanted to say I
have nothing more to say.
I don't seem to know anything anymore. It's just "I don't
know, I don't know, I don't know" to all the previous stuff
I thought I knew.
I don't even know how to sign this letter. I don't know who
I am, or why I should sign it at all. I'll just leave it
If possible please try to keep us informed of what is going
on with you.
It is interesting but last night I also had this very strong
confusion and felt as if I was about to break apart. This
list as Satsang may be more powerful than any of us
realize. I was puzzling over the Sat Cit Ananda.
Bliss probably is one of the most controversial issues. The
Ananda_maya_kosha (sheath composed of bliss) is the most
subtle of the 5 envelopes (kosha), covering/veiling Self.
As the name of the sheath suggests, it consists of bliss.
Just for the record, the sheaths were introduced in the
Taittiria-Upanishad; it speaks of the five envelopes,
occluding the pure *light* of the Self:
1. annamaya kosha - sheath composed of food
2. pranamaya kosha - sheath composed of life force
3. mano-maya kosha - sheath composed of mind
4. vijnana maya kosha - sheath composed of awareness
5. ananda maya kosha - sheath composed of bliss
In that Upanishad, 5. is equated with the Self but later
schools consider it a fine veil as well, for the simple
reason that when it is "transcended" (for the lack of a
better expression), body-consciousness has been transcended,
meaning among others that pain can no longer arise and one
is freed from urges like having to breathe. Only then,
Sat_Cit_Ananda can be known *as is*.
The notion of Bliss is hard to understand, and the Bliss of
the Self (Brahman) is often misunderstood to be the bliss of
the bliss-sheath or just a really great orgasmic feeling, or
even a sattvic oceanic peace felt in the body and mind.
It's not that.
This, and what Jan writes above about the
Taittiria-Upanishad is in accord with what the orthodox
advaita vedanta schools teach, such as the Chinmaya Missoin
and the Arsha Vidya Gurukulam. All sheaths or envelopes of
kosas are to be transcended, and each is more subtle than
But the bliss of Brahman is not equivalent to the bliss of
the anandamayakosa. It is the source of that phenomenal
bliss, but goes beyond it. In orthodox advaita vedanta, Sat
Chit and Ananda are called "non-qualifying attributes" of
Brahman or the Self. They serve to refute their contraries
and to combat nihilism, not to posit substantial qualities
to the Self.
Sat - (Being): to tell the student that non-existence is not
a characteristic of the Self.
Chit - (Consciousness): to tell the student that ignorance
is not a characteristic of the Self.
Ananda - (Bliss): to tell the student that suffering is not
a characteristic of the Self.
song for her
runnin on empty
WALKIN THE LINE
look at the you you left behind
starin' out of the blue
you're all that you had in mind
not askin how
not wonderin why
cry don't sigh
GIVIN' IN'S A FOOLISH ALIBI
if you're wonderin
what's beyond the sky
TAKE ON THE WORLD
give back what you know
PROFIT IS FAST
but love is slow
you're as good as it gets
BIG AS YOU GROW
who do you love?
who do you owe?
cry don't sigh
GIVIN' IN'S A FOOLISH ALIBI
if you're wonderin'
what's beyond the sky
SOMEDAY'S just a word to say tomorrow
SOMEHOW'S tryin hard to understand
LONELINESS is just another feeling
YESTERDAY'S a waste and empty land.
die? does not compute. . ..
I love your songs, gen.
This morning as I hear your voice singing in the background,
I find myself reflecting on my foster son, Joseph.
When I picked him up last night after a band performance, he
was as angry as I had seen him for a long time. After my
questioning him abit about what happened, he began to cry
thru his anger.
He began to share with me how he had been taunted by a
couple of guys, and how he had responded rather
The aggression stopped the attack, but it did not heal his
heart. He said, "They will be damned lucky if I don't hold
a grudge over this tomorrow."
As we pulled up in the drive, I suggested he release his
tears and channel his anger until he's finished...
.....or until he is ready to ask God to simply clear his
He banged around in the basement for a while, then announced
to me he was going to bed. He was asleep with I checked in
on him 30 minutes later.
This morning he came downstairs singing, and with a heart as
light as a feather. After a few minutes I said, "Sounds
like you had a talk with God last night", to which he smiled
and nodded "yes".....then offered to walk the dog.
Does Joseph still see God as a force that is apart from him?
Yes. He sure does.
But that does not seem to hinder the experience of Grace one
The practice of this pathless path is awareness in this
immediate moment, and this, and this .................
It does not preclude vigilance to continued healing,
retraining and surrender of the mind habits - until there is
Where am I going? Deeper.
I can't help it.
I would like some help on an experience that I had a couple
years ago. I was raised as a Christian but in college began
to learn of the wisdom Of the East.
I have had several experiences of ego loss, the Void, pure
awareness. Up to the experience I am about to describe they
were the most powerful and joyful experiences I had ever
I think I understood that according to Buddhist thought this
was the ultimate reality. I also understood that Buddhist
thought states that there is no God.
I was doing a silent retreat at home. At the time I was
having difficulty with the concept of God as described in
most of Christianity. The aspect I was having difficulty
with was that if God was so good and so loving how could God
send his own children to live all of eternity in hell?
I could not mention a loving God during this.
Towards the end of my retreat, during meditation, I was
touched ever so lightly by a presence. The presence was so
kind, so soft and totally non threatening. In my mind I
heard the words almost as if spoken out loud "If you want
me, I am here, if you do not, I am not." I said I want you.
This answer is from my own experience and point of view.
I have had similar experiences. In my practice of abiding,
I have allowed what is happening, to continue to happen,
without 'making anything of it' (the experiences). Thus,
when this experience happened for me, I allowed it to
continue. I did not make anything of it. From my practice
of abiding, I allowed it to continue, without coming to
conclusions and without deciding anything.
I found that my requests for a competent 'guide' had been
granted; here now, was a guide 'who' could 'commentate' upon
the events which comprised the 'me' which I was/am. I
knew/know better than to attempt to modify this guide; I
allowed this guide to continue to speak to me. I was
respectfully/fearfully silent. I allowed this guide to
speak. I allowed this guide to point out to me what it
would point out.
Yes, at the time, I had the thought that I was special; that
only such a special one as myself, could succeed in
manifesting such a divine event as this
communication/communion. But I put this thought into a
subordinate postion, and allowed myself to remain aware, in
a neutral sense. I intuited that a respectful attitude was
called for; I put myself into a stillness which was a
posture which was meant to convey my willingness to continue
as the recipient of guidance.
NEO: Instantly I became enveloped in a presence that was
Pure Love. That presence was the most powerful and joyful
experience that I have ever had. It fulfilled every desire
that I had ever had during my life. During that Presence I
realized that if I wanted that love I would have to become
that love. I would have to become a mirror reflecting that
Pure Love. This experience was more real to me than any
other experience I had ever had.
GENE: Yes. I felt at the time, that I would explode, if I
did not circulate the 'energies' which were arising within
me. I was tempted to circulate these 'energies' into the
compartments which contain the disparate versions of what is
reality. I resisted the impulse to do so. I allowed this
unusual event to continue. I kept my silence, but felt, at
the same time, a vast relief; my prayers had been answered.
I was being responded to. I kept my respectful quietness.
NEO: Since then I have had difficulty reconciling the
experience of the Void with this experience of Pure Love.
Is it possible that there is a God that is formed from pure
awareness and is not separate from pure awareness but united
GENE: I offer this 'unpopular' proposition, Neo: 'God' has
the power to take on 'personality'. God has the ability to
appear to us, in form, with personality. In this form, with
personality, God has the ability to communicate with us.
God has the capacity to appear, to us, as form and with
God can appear, as a 'Being' with form, with personality.
In doing so, God demolishes our cherished assumptions that
spirit is 'beyond form and personality'. In doing so, God
affirms for us, that our Being, form, and personality, are
gifts of God. In this communication, God affirms that
'everything is OK', and that we are _given_ what we need.
In this moment of communication, if we can be open to it,
God is telling us that we are fine just as we are. In this
moment of sharing, God is sharing with us, that we are not
rejected. We are being told, it seems, that we can relax
and enjoy the show. It seems that we are being told that
our glorious ideals, are redundant; we are being showed, by
this communication/communion itself, that we are in the
hands of a very capable power that we do not have the
slightest chance of second-guessing.
NEO: I would appreciate any thoughts related to this
experience, to the Void, to God, and what I believe to be
Buddhist thought that there is no God.
GENE: To my understanding, Buddhist 'thought' does not deny
the 'existence of God'. Instead, Buddhist thought
creates/advocates/maintains the space in which God may be
Regarding Buddhism, It is useful to keep in mind, that
Buddha is the most vigilant of those gatekeepers, who will
not allow any confusion about God to occur. Buddha,
foremost of any, stands ready, cleaning equipment in hand,
to remove any stains which we may spill upon God. Buddha
says nothing about God; in this, Buddha stands as the
foremost proponent of God. Of all, Buddha protects the
space in which God may appear. Leaving open this space, is
exampled by Buddha; following Buddha, are the guardians of
the Dharma, who keep alive the doctrine of empty space.
I was born and grew up in California. My grandparents
purchased a computer when I was about ten years old. It
seemed like magic so I spent more and more time learning how
to operate it. Separately, an uncle had an interest in
psychology, spirituality, and occult matters.
By the age of 15, I read or skimmed most of the books in his
library. I can't remember all the titles but they spanned
from Jung to Rajneesh to Hofstadter.
Water flows down the path of least resistance so instead of
pursuing aggressive American women, I continued studying
computers. However, the better I understood programming,
the less magical it seemed. Computers were entirely
mechanical and I felt like nobody knew that better than
myself. As the mystery faded, I look around for other
mysteries. I left college early. I tried doing a start-up
company (didn't work). I began studying martial arts. In
Boston, a friend of a friend of a friend introduced me to a
This Zen master definitely seemed magical. I attended his
talks and became his student. On one occation meditating
alone I experienced nirvikalpa samadhi. I saw that instead
of people being little bits of life in a gigantic lifeless
universe, the reality is quite the opposite.
People are actually relative death in a universe whose very
particles are alive with self-awareness. I studied with my
teacher for a few more years. His program was utterly
unique and fascinating. He died among bizarre circumstances
a few years ago. His disappearance left a void which I felt
I must try to fill. I felt that there was still something
about life that I didn't understand.
I reached out to all the people currently teaching
meditation. I explored the offerings of many teachers. I
paid special attention to the *students* of these teachers.
I suspected that a teacher's students would expose the means
and affect of their teaching more clearly than by studying
the teacher directly.
At this time, I was involved with a woman and working in New
If you don't know, New York is very competitive. Maybe
Manhatten is the most competitive place in the world.
However, being competitive is just weird from the
perspective of non-duality. Why compete with yourself?
On the other hand, competition is unavoidable. I couldn't
find any help with this problem in the spiritual literature,
just a bunch of useless koans and non-sense. About a year
ago I had a break-through and my attention stabilized at a
I've studied the literature extensively and I haven't found
mention of anyone else claiming a perfect understanding
competition. I wrote up my perspective at
I am curious as to your reactions.
It is often very gratifying to oneself and others to promote
the idea of a 'healthy ego,' by which term we are referring
to self-esteem. People like to be stroked and often form
mutual stroking societies, or will pay people or reward them
in other ways for giving them believable flattery.
People may even develop vested interests in such self esteem
efforts and conditioning, and will develop all sorts of
encouragements and even entire philosophies to justify what
they are doing. Thus they may argue passionately for such
Thanks for your thoughts on self-esteem and truth.
What you described here doesn't seem to be self-esteem,
rather insecurity stroking insecurity to construct the image
True self-esteem doesn't require constant stroking, although
is able to give and receive appreciation as appropriate.
So, we have a culture in which image is everything and
insecurity is rampant, not a culture of genuine
self-esteem. Self-esteem allows oneself to recognize
awareness and expression of awareness as intrinsically
It is the recognition of "I am" as in and of itself
positive, or to say it more nondualistically, as not
negative nor negatable.
The self-esteem with the small "s" will end for the
Self-esteem with the big "S" to become apparent, but they
are not unrelated.
Negative self-esteem, and I think this was implied in many
of your other remarks, is clearly an impediment to
expressing the Awareness with no negation. It is the
internalized sense that one's awareness and expression of
that, is not okay, and inherently not of value. All of our
efforts, to which you allude, designed to promote the image
of "healthy self-esteem" reflect the insecurities of a
culture breeding rampant negative self-esteem. I view this
problem as transcultural - a world-wide problem.
A person does need belief and strength to question the
assumptions that maintain the stereotypes, expectations, and
preoccupations of a culture. Call this individuality,
strength of self, or the inherent power of awareness - it
amounts to the same thing (if we don't get stuck in the word
You mentioned the Buddha, and there are many other examples
of sages that evidenced the strength to challenge
assumptions and break with the expectations of those around
them, for example, Jesus, Moses, Socrates, Meister Eckhardt,
There is a strength to challenge, to withstand, to explore
openly, to express directly. This strength has to do with
balance, clarity, responsibility, and the ability to
persevere. It's not the strength of an image, or an
egoistic self-preoccupation. All of these teachers showed
unconstricted individuality - call it Self-esteem, strength
of Self, or if not liking the word "Self", call it the
courage to be unique and say what needs to be said.
The non-individual being expresses through individuation and
courageous uniqueness. This only seems like a contradiction
or paradox. It makes perfect sense. The attempt to lose
individuality, to repress uniqueness, to conform, is as much
an impediment to discovery and expression of That as is the
need to promote one's identity, the aggressive ego, and
After all, "don't hide your light beneath a bushel basket".
-- Love --
After interacting with this list for the past several days
and meditating at other times I feel so drained and weary.
Is this similar to what I have heard of Zen where the mind
becomes so tired it just gives up?
Now that is something I will never know :-), having given up
before membership of lists. Be careful in giving up though
:-) Once started, that will "run on its own accord" until
all "human issues" have become non-issues and you'll unsub
because nothing remains to respond to...
If you're still asking, you're not drained and weary enough
yet. It seems that in some point in inquiry, you realize
you really don't know a damnable thing about anything at
all. So keep interacting and keep meditating :-)
Love, Tim G.
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