#1974 - Wednesday, November 10, 2004 - Editor: Jerry
- #1974 - Wednesday, November 10, 2004 - Editor: Jerry
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This issue consists of more excerpts from interviews in the new book, This Is It, by Jan Kersschot. If you're interested in buying it at Amazon.com, click here: http://tinyurl.com/66az2
In these interviews, J.K. is the book's author, Jan Kersschot.
Rather than an interview, this is a conversation. Here is a fragment:
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MM: But tell me Jan, it is one thing to talk of all this and make a declaration to the world that you and I see this, and that the movie exists. It is quite another to integrate this vision into living. After all, what good is any 'spirituality' if humanity does not embrace it -- in other words, lives daily out of pure silence or out of the Self, or from the place called 'Home.' It seems to me that seeing the True Self as it is, implies that life becomes 'selfless service' to that truth and each of us has an implicit duty to shine to all those still in illusion. I find that most authors writing about the Spirit leave it there as some disembodied entity. To me that is not what it's about. Ultimately we have responsibility to be compassion itself. The only thing that we can do is plunge into the flesh, into suffering, and perhaps try to enlighten the dark parts of the movie. I don't remember who said it but there is an adage: 'Enlightenment is not personal, it's for the whole, the other, as well.' I'm interested in your thoughts on this as well.
JK: I am not sure whether we have to integrate our vision into living. I wonder what is the real reason for saving the world. And according to what standards are we going to do that? We all know what the results are if two groups want to destroy the evil in the world, when both of them have opposite opinions on what is good and what is bad. I really wonder if all this struggle against 'evil' is really doing humanity any good. I wonder why we have to try to enlighten the dark parts of the movie.
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My only concern with this chapter is that the author, not the interviewee, has the last word, and it goes on for nearly two full pages.
ET: It seems to happen that it is also transmitted through the written word. It is flowing out of that state. It is in the book The Power of Now which people have read many times, and every time the energy is fresh and new. Any spiritual writing that comes out of this presence also contains that energy field. So, the presence of the teacher may even be stronger than the writing. The power of spiritual discourse -- whether is is written or spoken -- is that there is more than just the words. One could say that those words go deeper into the listener that words that are purely informational. When the words are purely informational, they are decoded by the mind and that's it.
JK: Then it is just an intellectual process.
ET: Yes. But here they are also decoded by the mind and then they continue -- the energy of it continues to go deeper ...
JK: It echoes ... it resonates ...
ET: Yes. And then it awakens presence in the listener -- or the reader. It awakens -- or one could say -- it almost pours it out. It works on a deeper level. One could say that presence recognizes itself.
JK: Like a mirror.
JK: In fact, there is only one presence, which is reflected in many forms, including your book.
JK: What I found amazing is to discover that the person we all think is inside, is simply not there. That there is in fact no person living inside.
JK: Of course, it is not very popular to say so; your audience might say, 'Oh, this is becoming too much,' or, 'This is strange.'
JK: But in a way it is true.
ET: Oh yes.
FL: ... Once you are open to life, it is a miracle.
FL: We could also explain this in terms of freedom. You see, there are two kinds of freedom: there is freedom from and freedom to. The first freedom we encounter on this path is the freedom from the personal, to be free from the personal vision. Free from ignorance. After you encounter this frist freedom, you discover the freedom to. All the desires we had, they strangely get fulfilled. Because the desire that we don't call upon as a person becomes God's desire, becomes an expression of freedom itself. Beyond any expectations. Desires get fulfilled way beyond that.
JK: There is abundance, but on the other hand there is also this neutrality. A sense of neutrality, of not being involved personally.
FL: Yes. You see, the objects are not desired for themselves, but for the hand that gives them.
JK: The source where it is coming from, is your celebration, in a way.
FL: The desire gets fulfilled only when we are detached from it. And there is the revelation of the divine hand that delivers it.U.G. KrishnamurtiUG: There is one thing that I am emphasizing all the time: it is not because of what you do or what you don't that this kind of thing happens. And why it happens to one individual and not another -- there is no answer to that question. I assure you that it is not the man who has prepared himself, or purified himself to be ready to receive that kind of thing. It is the other way around. It hits. But it hits at random. It is like lightning: it hits at random. It strikes at random. It has no cause. All this seriousness about the spiritual goal ... Let me tell you that all that wanting leads seekers nowhere. And I have nothing to give.JK: No need to get serious about all this.UG: What is the point of being serious about this subject? We have said enough. It was nice meeting you.JK: Thank you.UG: Where are you from?JK: Belgium.UG: I love Belgium. I like their chocolate.