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  • andrew macnab
    ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Melody: from
    Message 1 of 1 , Dec 13, 1999
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      from Urwa Ibn Adhina:

      "I have discovered - and exaggeration is not in
      my nature - that He who is my sustenance will
      come to me.

      I run to Him, and my quest for Him is agony
      for me. Were I to sit still, He would come
      to me without distress."

      I tend to take a middle-of-the-road stance. "He who is my sustenance"
      must be met halfway. Sitting still, one may sit a long time, feeling
      forsaken and alone. This is no better than the agony of the quest.

      With Love,


      'Meeting halfway' is doing whatever it takes to create an open space in
      mind and heart where I may consciously receive the sustenance, always


      To me, sitting still means 'abiding all things'.

      That's my half of the deal. Then Grace is free to do the rest.

      I'm simply recognizing these days where I've been falling down on the

      I'm seeing my resistances, my avoidances, my refusals,
      all those spaces where Grace is not allowed to flow.

      Sitting still, abiding all things, is simple. It's not always easy,
      though, is it?

      Thank you for sharing with me, Tim,


      i love that quote from Adhina, Melodearly, thank you for posting.

      Reminds me of a little ditty from many years ago.

      When we are ready, He comes.
      Searching, seeking, choosing
      invitation patterns in vain,
      Unceasingly putting our house in order, needless even a whispered

      We have swept the carpet, cleared
      the cupboards, thinned the closet,
      purged the unnecessary: collector's items.
      And one day He will judge,
      Enough! lay down your dusting cloth,
      my dear, prepare us a pot of tea,
      and come sit by me.
      I have a wonderful gift to give to you....
      Yes, when we're ready, He knows.
      He comes."


      dear Gen,

      I sat with your response to my posting about my brother
      last night, looking to see just how I might be saying silently
      to my brother, "you are not me".

      I realized this is showing me that I'm afraid to experience anything
      completely without some measure of 'holding back'.....this coming from
      a family of alcoholics, as I do.

      This 'holding back' has no doubt kept me functional in a
      world so outrageously disfunctional, but I can see now that it is
      this 'holding onto the rail'...this trying to stay steady, that keeps
      me from jumping fearlessly into my Beloved's arms.

      I see that there is a thin line between mental illness (of which I
      consider alcoholism part of) and Awakening..

      When one makes that 'jump' ....that final 'letting go', I really don't
      know which side of that line I will fall.

      Simply knowing this about myself seems to make a difference, Gen.

      Thank you dear heart,


      I can see it so clearly now....

      I'm seeing all the ways I 'hold onto the rail'....ways I would
      find to 'break away' from the moment....to disengage.....
      and to numb out....

      For most of my adult life I smoked. I would lite a cigarette
      the moment I began feeling anything too intensely....especially

      When I quit smoking, I used food the same way.

      Today I'm noticing that when feelings get too intense here
      on the computer, I break away by standing up and going
      into another room....busying myself with something else.

      It's here. I see it. I see how I fear being 'swallowed up'
      by something so much bigger than I.

      I've discovered I have the courage to see my face, and to
      show it.

      But do I have the courage to *feel* all that I am? Do I have
      the courage to be swallowed by bliss, rather than simply
      tasting it now and again?

      Do I have the courage to become "intoxicated by the bubbling
      spring" ?

      I realized that for me, courage means being willing to know
      just how afraid I really am.

      Now I know. Now I am terrified.


      this is a poem about nothin'
      or somethin'-- more journal than anything.
      melody got me to thinking about poetic madness (mental illness) and
      awakening, so i dug through some old writing and found a few that i'll
      pass along. i believe this was the breakdown before last :). why i
      love poems? perhaps because poetry transcends the margins!

      gen looks both ways
      ", , ,and all the believing univere cannot transform anyone who isn't
      into someone who is." --e.e. cummings, Eimi

      i say
      there are bad exits and then there are
      bad entrances. curious,
      i've peered through both portals,
      seen my breath on both panes,
      checked both places-- yes-
      there was pulse-- flesh.

      You say
      i am a dancing maniacal fool,
      ah, yes--
      to the rhythm, dance-dance,
      not close to, but right on the edge.
      your veins my dreams
      pulse-curse blood--- demons.
      i am *thought*
      by some odd, and some of the best
      people are, or were, or shall be.
      And normalcy is, after all,
      only hand-clenched security
      to a girl who makes love to
      want-ing-be-ing. cradling
      heart-beating-small-fieldmouse. tiny
      eyes stare black-blazes--
      pleading, piercing back needing.

      turned round
      i look into your eyes
      and i don't know you.
      i, who have flown-flown
      with the crow and called
      to the ever expanding grey sky
      in alien languages try
      to feel just-like-that. how you
      are when you're laughing or
      smiling, what you are when
      you frown. i've tried
      to inject myself ,
      small, and crawling,
      into your every body-else-type
      and i was lost and alone amidst you.
      (to be continued). . .

      more Curfew Breaker by gen

      Where is your beat beat beat?
      Where is it? I , rattling
      snall and rough and hard--
      shook-soul astonished, struck
      by your immensity.
      Crackle! a spark in the
      vastness-- the desert was here?
      Ticks of your clocks and watches-- past
      and future spaces. . .
      no now?

      Back beat
      i look into the sea
      and i know now
      i feel just-like-that.
      scuttling along, or lingering
      on the crusty floor, submerged
      in sea garden, flowing forest, and
      i find my own kind. gape-glide-looking
      for light, who cares the atmosphere?
      into a branch, stalk or
      vein of sea wall i conform,
      and it is here that
      i appreciate my own complexity.
      it is simple.

      I am a small idea on
      a big planet and it is here
      in a redwood grove,
      here on a rocky hill side,
      here, in the very deep-deep
      of the sea that i find
      there isnothing to want,
      to buy, to steal, to hurt. . .
      there are no reasons to rise
      to the morning
      except for the being alive.
      i say
      there are bad exits and then
      there are bad entrances, but
      there are those soft, hesitant,
      remarkably painful

      here where the, flashing, red, green,
      of, shark, incisors, lights,
      and, lightning, smoke, sink,
      into, puffs-- ebbs, urged,
      on, by, electric anemone.
      in the sky.

      here is
      a tank
      with a fish
      from the store.

      that said, i plunge into
      the sea , and it is as if
      i never knew the air.

      -- gen berlin
      episode from the '80's

      Several of you have viewed my recent posts as condescending or arrogant.
      In all honesty, I *have* been speaking from a position of arrogance and
      condescension lately. Ego is a sneaky little bastard, and just when it
      seems to be most in abeyance, often it is most active. The motivating
      force that drives me to post here is love, yet motivation doesn't always
      translate to results. Therefore, I owe the list a sincere apology, and
      will try to keep a closer eye on ego. That little bastard is like a
      chameleon, changing color just when you think you have seen it for what
      I love all of you as myself, and post here to try to help both myself
      and others. Lately, some of my posts have been counter-productive.
      Whoever pointed that out has my deepest thanks and appreciation.

      I have certainly had my share of judgments, but this kind of recognition
      and self-awareness is the greatest antidote. Speaking for myself and
      perhaps a few others, being caught up in the ego is an easy thing to
      allow to happen even if absolutely the stupidest choice, from the point
      of view of someone who understands the real natural state. I am reminded
      of a line from Bruce Cockburn, remembered probably inaccurately: "All of
      this glory shining all around, and we're all caught taking a dive."

      Thanks Sarlo and Tim, for pointing this out. The thought that being
      caught up in the ego (for lack of a better way to put it) cannot happen
      once the natural state is understood, is an act of that very 'ego'
      itself. The beauty is in the understanding of what one is, always,
      eternally, in spite of all the things we get caught up in. I call it:
      "Looking Again, and Discovering Again". Isn't it beautiful?
      With love,

      Very interesting and powerful reflections today on the individuated
      feeling body of the body Being.

      We are learning how to be community of One.. which includes, it seems,
      how to commune in the full spectrum of where we find ourselves right
      now. That Melody and Kristie and Phil have felt marginalized.. that I
      have at times wondered at my place here as well.. is, it seems to me, a
      delightful opportunity for us to examine the habituated mindsets we
      contine to carry with us... even after 'realization'.

      I am moved to learn that you Kristie, have not felt welcomed.. I find
      you such a bright note and feel a strong kinship with you. I love your

      I am glad that you, Phil, have returned with your spunk.

      I am saddened to learn that you, Melody have received these labels
      *alone*.. by 'alone' I mean.. they apply, at one moment or another, to
      so many of us, that all I can say is that you are in good company... we
      are all children growing up.

      "too serious, unhappy.....still yet a child.....someone who possessed
      neither the intelligence nor the experience to be able to handle this
      Salon, or to learn from it. I heard someone say that I didn't have the
      maturity to be here."

      .. and in the 'growing up' or waking up.. seems to me that some of the
      above needs to be understood from within a very different context.

      As Tim, whose opened heart I stand within, has gracefully offered

      > Remove the subject and object and only "Relationship" remains. This is the
      > core of Nonduality: Remove the subject from the equation first. Without
      > subject, object vanishes, having no perceiver. At that point there is only
      > perception. Remove the lover, and the beloved vanishes, and only Love
      > remains. Remove the perceiver (the "me"), and the perceived world of
      > objects vanishes, and only perception remains.

      and I'll add.. remove the 'taunter' and the pain is released. I am
      learning to 'hear' with different ears.

      Still.. I prefer the compassionate approach to dissolution and give
      thanks for that here.


      Ashtavakra Gita is at


      Dear Jan,

      Do you know of any so-called "primitive" cultures where the "I"-idea is
      not present? Or is the "I/you" distinction universal to all cultures?

      I realize this is somewhat a loaded question, since the "I" is wrapped
      up in many things... body identity, language, identity with a particular
      family group, etc... I'm wondering if "I/You" came into being when
      spoken language first came into being, or is it prior to that?

      Thanks for any clues,


      Dear Tim:

      I'll jump in here if you don't mind. Your question on "I" and language
      is discussed extensively in a book titled "The Origins of Consciousness
      in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind" by Julian Jaynes. He makes a
      quite radical proposition about the nature of consciousness and its
      development. You might like it.

      As for "primitive" cultures I can speak a bit to some aspects of tribal
      consciousness in the individual, although it may not answer your
      question. I'll leave that to Jan. Interacting with tribal people is very
      different. It is impossible to know what it would have been like to
      interact with a pre-eureopeanization native on this continent but I have
      known several very Indian Indians and there are striking differences
      .......I cannot speak to the concept of the "i" in them because it's not
      something they talked about.....this is the most noticeable difference
      ...the very non-controlling, utterly respectful of others' autonomy and
      personal space manner in which they spoke and acted. The lack of
      meaningless patter and personal dissertations on the state or nature of
      anything.....where beingness and action speak volumes and words are
      considered rather unneccessary.......a total comfort with silence
      ......no need to fill time or space with chatter.......total candor, no
      word games, guile or deceit in personal interactions, but tremendous
      humor generally offered as a teaching. I will give you an example.

      I have written here before of my friend Michael Whitefox and our salmon
      fishing venture when I was homeless in rural Oregon. My partner and I
      had some difficult times and when Michael sensed that, he never spoke of
      it, he would draw a big circle on the ground and hold a bandana out to
      us. The first time he did this I had no clue what he wanted. But we
      walked up to him and he tied the bandana around our knees and gave us a
      slight push. My partner and I had to hold onto each other to keep from
      falling and we laughed at the suddeness and unexpectedness of the
      situation. Michael grunted and said "Indian wrestle." So we did. When
      the laughter had died down he retrieved his bandana and said "better to
      play than to quarrel, better to hold on and help each other stay up,
      than to help each other fall."

      Feathers and hides and beads and such are currency in the streets. We
      gathered them in the woods and traded for them and made Indian art and
      little gifts for each other and people we loved. We also sold them to
      stores and people when we could for a couple of bucks here or there. One
      day as we came into the park in Cave Junction we found a crow feather in
      a tree...and then another one....and another one....for a week, everyday
      there were crow feathers in the trees. One morning we came to the park
      earlier than usual and I saw Michael slipping around the park and
      planting these feathers. He never bothered to explain why he was doing
      it. But I remembered that during the preceding week he'd always been
      parked under a tree while we gathered crow feathers, watching us and
      smiling. I think he did it to amuse himself and to please us and maybe
      to remind us that abundance grows in trees if we only have eyes to see
      it or the vision to plant it.

      I read once some stuff on linguistics and the Hopi language. The
      language is curiously lacking, as I recall from my reading, in time
      referents. I remember being struck by the fact that the word, for
      example, for thunder, had no modifiers if it was a long thunder
      storm.....the word was just carried out for more syllables......the
      experience of the thunder was expressed rather than formed into verbally
      discrete patterns that separated time from the thunder itself. I also
      recall a passage on honesty: they wrote that to the Hopi their words
      were no different than their arms or their legs....they were simply an
      extension of their spirit outwards....so to lie was inconceivable, to
      warp the nature of the being was an incomprehensible idea to the
      traditional Hopi. My personal experience is that there is a lot of
      "lying" that happens...but it's more in the nature of storytelling and
      pulling your leg, never in the sense of personal deliberate deceit. I'll
      tell you another Michael story another day.

      Love, Kristi


      I do think of us as a community. And if we ever found
      ourselves gathered together, something like the following
      might be appropriate for someone to read. It does speak of
      burden, and although I know many here have passed
      successfully through life's fires and found clarity in the
      one moment, there are many still passing through those fires
      and carrying burdens. Thanks to John Metzger for posting
      this on the Allspirit list:

      The Cosmic Christ calls us to renewed worship : "Come to me
      all you who are burdened by lack of praise, lack of beauty,
      lack of vision in your lives. Look about you at the starry
      heavens and the deep, deep sea ; at the amazing history that
      has birthed a home for you on this planet ; at the surprise
      and joy of your existence. Gather together---you and your
      communities---in the context of this great, cosmic community
      to rejoice and give thanks. To heal and let go. To enter
      the dark and deep mysteries, to share the news, to break the
      bread of the universe and drink blood of the cosmos itself
      in all its divinity. Be brave. Let your worship make you
      strong and great again. Never be bored again. Create
      yourselves, re-create your worlds, by the news you share and
      the visions you celebrate. Bring your sense of being
      microcosm in a vast macrocosm ; bring your bodies ; bring
      your play ; bring your darkness and your pain. Gather and
      do not scatter. Learn not to take for granted and learn
      this together. Become a people."

      Matthew Fox

      Dear List,

      Certain sections of Jerry's Nonduality FAQ intimate that nonduality sees
      the subject-object relationship as false. In many ways, the precise
      opposite is true -- Nonduality sees the subject-object relationship as
      true, and the subject and object themselves as false!

      Remove the subject and object and only "Relationship" remains. This is
      the core of Nonduality: Remove the subject from the equation first.
      Without subject, object vanishes, having no perceiver. At that point
      there is only perception. Remove the lover, and the beloved vanishes,
      and only Love remains. Remove the perceiver (the "me"), and the
      perceived world of objects vanishes, and only perception remains.

      Remove the barrier between life and life (the "I") and the two are
      reconciled as Life. Not-Two. There is no subject, no object, only
      Eternal Relationship, a solid block of Reality without division.

      Anyone else have anything to contribute to the "subject-object
      relationship" idea?

      With Love,


      Kristi wrote:

      I think sometimes the list is very threatened when someone exposes their
      process or their pain.....as though the mere existence of turbulence is
      a threat to serenity.......I have rarely felt welcome here.......in the
      sense of being loved or understood or that there was even much desire on
      anyone's part to love or understand me.......but I keep coming
      back.....because I think my process does offer insight to those who want
      to hear it and aren't afraid of it.....behind my struggle and my
      "suffering" I am a strong and very wise person......I know that even if
      it remains a secret to others......


      My first thoughts after reading this were, "I'm amazed you don't know
      how much your posts are appreciated here", and then I couldn't help but
      smile - remembering how Glo had spoken those very words to me only days

      One think I've noticed before - but has become even clearer these past
      days - is how our threads, our thoughts, our challenges all tend to
      interweave here...as if each voice helps to write the song.

      I look at how so many different voices from here these past few days
      builded upon the other, and led to the sound that finally broke open a
      knot in me.

      Yours is one of those voices, as is Phil's, and Gen's, and Christiana's
      and Jerry's, and Tim's ...

      all of you who have offered your voice to the topic of marginalization.

      This place is indeed perfect....even in its disharmonics. I love how
      both you and Phil have voiced your intention to stay....even when
      feeling ignored or unwelcomed.
      You're a teaching in Gene's word, 'abiding'.


      Hey everyone. I went to a talk by Tony Parsons today. For some time now
      I've been chatting with Anneke every now and then(she's from the
      Netherlands too, maybe some of you met her online). She lives in
      Amsterdam and I live in Alkmaar, we're about half an hour apart. We
      decided to get together on the first opportunity.

      So when I got an E-mail last week about Tony giving a talk in Amsterdam,
      I decided that would a good moment to meet.

      Meeting Anneke was very nice. I 've seen posts lately about people who
      have seen each other on the filelist, and were *not* surprised, because
      they looked just was expected. Well in this case, Anneke knew what I
      look like, and I did not know what she looked like. But as soon as she
      walked in, I knew it was her. We had a very nice chat (live, this time)
      for one hour and then we attended the talk by Tony.

      Listening to Tony was great. He speaks about Advaita in a very relaxed,
      calm, humoristic way. We all entered the room and he waited till
      everybody was seeted. Then he began looking around for a while. After a
      few minutes of silence he suddenly said: "I don't give speeches, you
      know. Where I come from, people start asking questions, and I give
      answers..." That broke the ice and what came next was 3 hours of energy

      One of the questions was: "How about romance? Can you still fall in love
      after realization?" "Oh yes, you fall in love with Everything...." he

      I had never heard of this man before, any of you?

      And oh, he has a book out: "The open secret"

      Love to hear from you,


      Xan to Melody:
      Now, I ask you freshly,
      Who is seeing all this?
      Who is questioning your courage?
      Who is terrified?
      It is a felt answer.

      oh to Xan:
      Now, i ask you stalely.
      Who is asking Melody these questions?
      It is a suede answer.

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