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Highlights Tues7Dec

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  • andrew macnab
    Good evening succulent Infinite roots.. As I light my two candles tonight, I do so with immense peacefilled gratitude for the richness of birth day gift
    Message 1 of 1 , Dec 8, 1999
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      Good evening succulent Infinite roots..

      As I light my two candles tonight, I do so with immense peacefilled
      gratitude for the richness of birth day gift received.

      This week I reflect upon the Nature kingdom.. the beauty of It's gift,
      offering food and shelter, also on it's reflection in the creation of my
      body. I note with awe the fibonacci patterns in branch systems of trees,
      pine cones, as well as in my brain and nervous system; the geometry of
      patterning of flowers; and the chemical substances arising from the
      earth to maintain this body.

      I honor what is deeply rooted in our human experience, while
      simultaneously gently releasing those roots which are gravity bound.

      I light this candle honoring the roots of our vast Tree!
      Over Thanksgiving weekend at Satsang, Gangaji asked a woman to sing this
      song.. it has been purring in my Background ever since. So simple... so
      clean. I chant it here with you.

      Lord, please make me,
      a Sanctuary,
      pure and holy,
      strong and true.

      And in Thanksgiving,
      I'll be a living,
      for You.



      this morning i am thinking about my brother, Doug, who is in a federal
      as they say, Doug and i go "way back." he has known me since i got
      here. we have had our brother-sister highs and lows but share an
      unbreakable bond. we have always gravitated toward each other.
      he's a very special person to me, and to the world, and now i am
      learning from him. about patience. about being where you be. here i
      share a poem he just sent to me:

      "watercolor sunshine,
      smudging clouds across the sky.
      carousel world
      mountains rise and fall like painted horses,
      diversions and distractions
      keep you off the center of gravity,
      shouts and yells and laughter
      echo forever in and out of time
      this brief engagement like my time here
      a finger snap to the creator,
      he spins circles in the aire
      patterns and amusements,
      tests and hardships do reveal,
      a singularity of all the wonderous
      things made for you and me;
      the greatest show on earth. .."
      --Douglas Diehl

      Hi everyone!
      Thanks for tolerating my going on about my brother this morning. It's
      just that I really care about him, as i do about each of you. I know
      that that is incredibly non-dual, and that is quite alright with me.
      I want to share with you a holiday fantasy I have -- and I am asking for
      your help. I would love it if Doug was swamped with holiday greeting
      cards. He is a great guy, who just happens to be in prison. He has
      shown me more about unconditional love these past weeks than I can tell

      Anyway, if anyone would care to send a holiday card to my brother, Doug,
      I have posted his address under "files" at one list. (link below) It's
      titled "care bears-gen." I will happily e-mail you with it privately if
      the link doesn't work. (dummie here: pc mac web tv, you name it!)

      Thanks and I Love You
      just for being here and reading this!

      email: bshanti@... (ed.)



      Poem by Kabir

      Friend, please tell me what I can do about this mud world
      I keep spinning out of myself!

      I gave up expensive clothes and bought a robe
      But I noticed one day the cloth was well-woven.

      So I bought some burlap but I still
      Throw it elegantly over my left shoulder.

      I stopped being a sexual elephant,
      And now I discover I'm angry a lot.

      I finally gave up anger, and now I notice
      That I'm greedy all day.

      I worked hard at dissolving the greed,
      And now I am proud of myself.

      When the mind wants to break its link with the world
      It still holds on to one thing.

      Yesterday Larry asked this question. (about what if any formal practises
      people engage in, see yesterday's highlights--ed.) No one has responded.
      I think it is an important question, even if difficult to answer. It
      seems that concepts like 'practice' and 'method' tend to be considered a
      bit verboten here, and given the appearance of that tendency, I
      especially appreciated Jerry's invocation 'think only of God' and what
      that meant to him.

      We live in bodies, in time and time is 'spent' all kinds of ways. I
      suspect this is true whether one has had experience of transcendence or
      not. We all, to use Jerry's wonderful metaphor, slip into the Intervals.
      I am an ice skater.. it takes a lot of precise awareness to master an

      Gene has said that spontaneity is automatic, Knowing can be automatic,
      but response-ability (respond-ability) is not automatic. Integrity
      requires impeccability. (hoping that I'm quoting you more or less
      accurately Gene).

      So.. knowing that NDS eschews 'to do' lists, I nonetheless would like to
      join Larry in asking if a few of you can share how you maintain pristine

      thank you..

      One day I surrendered to the fact that I had really failed,
      and so I took a look at myself to see what I was doing wrong.

      Happy Days,

      Hi larry,

      The unsought breakthrough came, when living up to the unknown dictum:
      those having 'died' can know what is worth both dying and living for".


      Can you expand on this. It sounds pretty juicy. And what
      about now? Any spiritual routine?

      The dictum means that when having given up both pleasure and
      pain, it will have consequences both in attitude and behavior.
      The attitude becomes equanimity under all circumstances and
      the behavior doesn't take "I" as the center of the universe;
      instead, one considers each situation in its entirety. It is
      like an uninterrupted practice of being the
      "witness_in_action"; when having to take a decision, one can
      remain witness because "me" is left out of it.

      This is rather radical and destroys conditioning; in the
      course of events there will be a situation where enough
      conditioning has been stripped off for the "sudden flash" of
      recognition. But even if this doesn't happen, something else

      I didn't seek this as a practice; there was no choice left as
      I had become pretty sure of the fact that "just" worldly life
      isn't able to bring true happiness and the avenues of life
      that hadn't been experienced could be reasoned out as
      "bringing nothing". Anyway, whether called practice or
      non-practice, surrender or witness_in_action, in my case it
      "worked", there was a "bright flash" and it didn't take long
      until it made all practice, even the thought of it,


      I've meditated since I was a teenager, going on 30 years on and off,
      more formal disciplined zazen in the early years, looser and freer
      lately. I like what Krishnamurti has to say about meditation in the
      piece I posted a while ago (highlights27Nov). I don't really know what
      effect meditation
      has had on the way I am now, I don't know what I would be like if I
      hadn't. Now I meditate for its own sake, meditation is very beautiful.
      It's not a means toward an end for me, but a part of life like sleeping
      or eating. With your vajrayana background you know about the potential
      problems and errors in meditation, like the dead vacuous state one can
      fall into, or the possibility of autohypnosis. I didn't have a teacher
      so I struggled through that stuff on my own. I also don't think
      meditation is restricted to formal sitting, it's also being attentive
      through the day.
      To me the important thing about meditation is that in it the habitual
      way of consciousness falls away. Everybody's different, but that's my
      personal story about formal practise.

      love, andrew

      Speaking for myself, the answer is simple. I have no pristine awareness
      to maintain. Nothing gained, nothing lost. Christiana's
      point is well taken, that most of us have to do something. It reminds me
      of a joke told by my master, a master of
      A man comes home unexpectedly in the afternoon to find his wife naked in
      bed and obviously unnerved by his sudden
      appearance. He goes to the closet and flings the door open to find his
      best friend George cowering there, also naked.
      "George!" he roars, "What are you doing here?"
      "Well, I have to be somewhere, don't I?"

      Love, Sarlo


      Tuesday, April 7, 1998

      a story
      ...today i decided to analyze my actual morning using dream analysis. .

      i wake up and it's raining. obviously, i think, this sybolizes a need
      to find some kind of balance between aspects of my inner and outer life.
      i stumble downstairs to the kitchen (the second of three floors which
      represents, of course, my conscious mind) then one more flight down into
      the living room (my subconscious) in order to get the morning paper.

      by this action, i am apparently seeking important information which is
      right outside the door or within my grasp. ..

      the newspaper is soaking wet, so i deduce that this must represent
      information in my subconscious which i cannot access due to some
      psychological defect or weakness, or perhaps my repressed anger at
      having been born to die, or my continual feeling of angst about NOT
      having been born a duck.

      i return to my kitchen, wring out the paper, and open the window (an
      obvious sexual gesture). i begin making coffee and carefully slice a
      bagel, having remembered that i read somewhere that 60% of all kitchen
      injuries in hospital ER's are bagel related. while slicing, i notice a
      spider atop the toaster oven, evidently symbolizing my overly protetive
      mother. distracted by guilt of this association, i cut myself with the
      bread knife. which i inherited from mom. more guilt.

      the kniife is of couse a phallic symbol, which explains in one fell
      swoop both my injury, my unnatural devotion to my father, and my

      i run upstairs to the third floor--the spiritual aspect of my mind-- for
      a band aid (which is a symbol for the healing aspects of
      mother-father-sky-god. it may also convey my need to hide scars from
      those slings and arrows that i'm heir to.

      at this point, i note that all of this stair climbling is really just
      about sex. bandaged, but not yet healed, i return to the kitchen for
      breakfast. i eat my cold bagel, thereby avoiding the spider, and forgo
      the usual breakfast banana as i'm analyzing all of my actions and i
      suddenly feel quite self conscious. . .

      i pick up the book i was reading last night but can't find my glasses.
      my inability to read the text, which squirms before my eyes like a
      millon snakes, ads me to believe that i must work on my ability to focus
      and concentrate while in my daily dream life. or it may mean that i
      have repressed heterosexual tendencies which were completely sublimated
      by an encounter with my high school gym teacher.

      nah. i decide to go back to bed. i dream that i am a spider watching a
      crazy woman try to slice a bagel and analyze the shite out of

      boring! i dream, so i go back to my web and dream that i wake up and
      it's raining. i'm a spider. it'll be okay. it's only rain.

      i love you!

      heart sister

      An assemblage of several posts between Skye and Mira:

      How refreshing to hear someone question this self
      annihilation which constitutes a subtle body of
      indoctrination within a nondual perspective to which no
      objection is allowed to consistently be raised.

      I don't know what observation originates this statement skye, but from
      what I have seen, read and experienced on this list, ALL objections to
      any kind of statement are allowed here.

      Allowed to be posted yes, but often angrily and
      belittlingly rejected. To me there *is* a subtle
      indoctrination going on. 'Indoctrination' is defined in the
      websters dictionary as; that which constitutes a subtle body
      of indoctrination to which no objection is allowed to
      consistently be raised. Open debate is unacceptable by most
      religions, i see no real variation from that here. To me
      there is a an unmistakable objection on this list to
      considering the self as anything other than emptiness and
      some even curse it a worthless good for nothing!

      Hm. I just really don't know what the self is. I am not joking. I really
      don't have a clue. I don't know. But it doesn't seem to make one bit of
      difference to know or not know, in order to be. Because still I am. What
      I am? Skye, I don't know. At times I may refer to it as emptiness, or as
      absolute, or as nothing, or words of a similar nature, but this is only
      for lack of a better expression. It is the mind trying to formulate a
      word for something it is unable to know.
      How would you define self? How would you describe what you are? What
      words come to you, when trying to describe this self? I am really
      interested. Perhaps I may borrow one of your suggestions?

      They are for one simple reason: the fact that they do emerge.

      skye: For the same simple reason then, that the manifested
      self also emerges, can we *allow that as a fact* too.

      Yes of course! Now please inspire me with your description of this
      manifested self. What is it to you, and where does it emerge from?
      (I am not looking for *right* or *wrong* answers here, just wishing to
      hear your expression or version of it).

      They are mostly followed by some deeper examination and inquiry into
      their intrinsic truth however. So of course, any annihilation, is always
      an annihilation of a Something (in this case, something called self). As
      long as we speak of Somethings like 'a self', it can always be affirmed,
      annihilated, rejected, accepted, whatevered. In my experience this is
      the very beauty of these interactions. To see, time and again, that
      which IS, when nothing is left to either affirm or annihilate. That, (to
      me?) is truth. Because there is no one, nothing, left to either affirm
      or annihilate it.

      skye: I myself see no need for haughtily casting aside or
      annihilating anything, as if it were some low life, left
      over, 'somethings'! simply because we can speak of it.

      So no casting aside of any annihilation either. Thanks.

      Its my mission to not religiously adhere to any perspective, be it dual
      or nondual, for they all characterize the same indoctrination via the
      usual indignation and dismissal of any intelligence daring to question
      or survive within it.

      If it is a mission, there may be effort involved.

      skye: and we'll have no effort involved here, if you don't
      mind! ;-) I originally began that sentence with; "I too
      (bob) have no intention of adhering to any religion". but i
      was curious to see who would jump on the band wagon and
      invalidate the alternative "it is my mission" with their
      nondual perspective, interesting the connection with
      *effort*. Indoctrination seems a bit like a chess game, to
      some, doesn't it.

      I hope I didn't invalidate your mission. I have no intention of
      invalidating anything. I am only suggesting that turning it into a
      mission, sounds like 'working toward a certain objective' to me. Which
      is fine, if that's what you like doing. I trust that you do not overlook
      that which is there, regardless of you adhering or not adhering to a
      religion, or nondual perspective, or ideas about effort, or whatever I
      say that is utterly unimportant.

      Correct me if I am wrong,

      right? wrong? what for?

      right because I respect you, because I love you, because if there is
      anything I would like to share with you, it's the *right* thing.

      just a civil and respectful allowing of a variety of
      viewpoints is fine. To me all is valid, nothing is negated.
      But i do avoid the company of beings who validate their
      viewpoints with heavy-handed cursing.

      Yep, I agree. But I found that exposure of my viewpoints to some
      heavy-handed cursing can be quite refreshing at times. I do not evade
      it. If I'd start doing that again, I would be locking myself into that
      protective state of 'me' again. Where 'I' have to be right, and the
      others are wrong. Of course, there is no need for such company on a
      continuous basis. But then, if that would be the case on this list, I
      can always 'consider the alternative' and unsub.

      Not you mirror :-)

      but that which bears no characteristics, and accepts all questions,
      embraces all persepectives, is effortless. That effortlessness I am.

      skye: sure, and so am i, but to me that which 'bears' both
      effortlessness and effort *is* a *characteristic* woven into
      the cosmos.

      Questioning, is the arrow of the mind. Once fired, it pierces into
      infinity. And it is this living questioning ability, that I cherish as
      my greatest ally. Be it my own questions, be it your questions, they
      always pierce, ever deeper, into the fathomless answer.

      To me questioning is the ever opening of the mind and
      most of us are not mentally open or mature enough to ask
      deeply penetrating questions, but those we do ask are the
      scaffolding in preparation for deeper questions and
      understandings. Whereas an *arrow* seeks only to meet its
      mark, does not embrace all perspectives, but ignores all
      other possibilities.

      Where will the *arrow* find its mark within infinity?

      Now if as *you say* there is no one,
      nothing, left to either affirm or annihilate it, then how to
      question, with what?.

      I question with that which seeks to define itself. The apparent world is
      a continous flux, trying to define itself. Yet, once known and
      established, it rejects those definitions as ultimately not acceptable,
      and transforms its definitions again, in a renewed attempt, to define
      itself. To me, the apparent world is the ongoing answer to every
      possible question it has about itself.
      As a human being, I experience this as an urge. A faint longing for
      contentment, for fulfillment. I look for this fulfillment in
      Place that contentment in some future circumstance, when the situation
      will be defined as desired. This longing for complete contentment, did
      not let me rest, until it's core was uncovered. Then the core was
      revealed to be this
      very contentment. However, the experience of being a living human being
      did not end (yet, ha ha). So now there is an opportunity, to actually
      freely live this flux of definitions. To *be* all those definitions, and
      reject them again (in favor of yet another one?), without ever once
      being able to define myself (because when I can, I can also reject it

      It helps me to consider the *possibility* of the life
      of the self as one message leaping across the nerve cells of
      a multidimensional structure....just an analogy only, for we
      are more than a message passing through the vast reaches of
      a superself. There is a lapse while massages leap the nerve
      ends and this is analogous to a moment of self reflection by
      the greater being in whom we live and move and have our
      being. We have an intimate interdependent relationship with
      all reality and are never lost in the universe.

      How could I be lost, in that which I am entirely?
      I haven't found a place where I am not.

      But you have just said "There is no one, nothing, left
      to either affirm or annihilate." now in the next breath, you
      say you are in every place? sounds lost and confusing to

      Reminds me of Harsha's list, a couple of months ago we were invited to
      post our favorite quotes. I remember someone (I believe Bruce or Gene)
      posted: "wherever you go, there you are". I believe that quite covers
      it. I really haven't ever found a place where I was not.
      And about the no one to either affirm or annihilate, I took a deep
      and looked AGAIN to find who (or what) this one is that I call me. This
      'me' that so apparently affirms or annihilates everything. Well, I found
      that I am given two options:
      1) I can affirm myself, 2) I can annihilate myself. Now what happens
      when I opt for both of them?

      I hope this post didn't get too loooong.
      I guess I am really enjoying myself here with you,

      >Looking forward to you piercing arrows,
      with love and appreciation back,

      and i also, looking forward to your open mind,
      much love, skye



      Many people talk of traditions and scripture and the right way to
      understand Vedanta as they see it and interpret it. Fine. Yet there have
      been living Sages whose experiential knowledge and realization gives
      life to scriptures and traditions. Surely their words constitute the
      scriptures. Is there any substitute for understanding the nature of
      awareness? Is there any substitute for looking within? Is there any
      substitute for looking at the looker. How could there be? We continue
      now with Sri Ramana's Forty Verses on Reality. Verses 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9
      are given below.

      4. If one has form oneself, the world and God also will appear to have
      form, but if one is formless, who is it that sees those forms, and how?
      Without the eye can any object be seen? The seeing Self is the Eye, and
      that Eye is the Eye of Infinity.

      5. The body is a form composed of the five-fold sheath; therefore, all
      the five sheaths are implied in the term, body. Apart from the body does
      the world exist? Has anyone seen the world without the body?

      6. The world is nothing more than an embodiment of the objects perceived
      by the five sense-organs. Since, through these five sense-organs, a
      single mind perceives the world, the world is nothing but the mind.
      Apart from the mind can there be a world?

      7. Although the world and knowledge thereof rise and set together it is
      by knowledge alone that the world is made apparent. That Perfection
      wherein the world and knowledge thereof rise and set, and which shines
      without rising and setting, is alone the Reality.

      8. Under whatever name and form one may worship the Absolute Reality, it
      is only a means for realizing It without name and form. That alone is
      true realization, wherein one knows oneself in relation to that Reality,
      attains peace and realizes one's identity with it.

      9. The duality of subject and object and trinity of seer, sight, and
      seen can exist only if supported by the One. If one turns inward in
      search of that One Reality they fall away. Those who see this are those
      who see Wisdom. They are never in doubt.

      Hi Bob,

      Welcome to the NDS.

      You wrote this:

      >It is just as true and enlightening that
      >there is no Now as that there is only the Now.
      >It is just as true and beneficial to realize
      >that "the One" is only a human conception
      >as to realize that all is One.
      >Unless--you've seen it all before.
      >Painted yourself into the corner of
      >the nonexistant now and oneness
      >leaving no air even for the
      >squirrels to breathe
      >with your imperious
      >and stifling

      Hi Bob,

      You painted a picture so well, it was
      not difficult for me to touch that space
      you described....that 'stifling bloodless love'.

      I know the face of this woman who can
      be so smug in her 'knowingness' that she
      could rob herself and others of the
      wonderment of life.

      I have worn the face of this woman who
      can be so detached in her 'truths' that
      she can stand by, with 'bloodless'
      compassion and simply watch another
      crying in pain, and yet never reach out
      a helping hand. Why? Because 'that'
      wasn't 'real'. Because "I" and "you"
      don't exist!! Ha!

      Yes to life! Yes to bloody life!

      It is, and yet it isn't.

      To 'breathe' life so completely
      with all of its wonder,

      affirming it
      even as we say, 'neti neti"....

      embracing it
      as we simply observe it.....

      dancing it
      as we sing the music,

      as we *are* the music,

      as we become the dance

      and the dancehall

      and still,

      nothing at all.

      (Is this what you've been saying, skye?)

      Welcome, Bob.


      The following was sent by Petros:

      I attended one of Ram Tzu's (Wayne Liquormans') advaita
      talks in Hermosa Beach on Monday afternoon (Dec. 6). He is
      here in the L.A. area for about a week or two, and is
      holding quite a few talks. He prefers to call them "advaita
      talks" rather than satsangs as he feels the term satsang has
      been overused in the past year or two and may be becoming

      Wayne made mention of the popularity that advaita seems to
      be enjoying of late, and how this popularity is in many
      cases not for "advaita" itself, but for the same new-age
      philosophy that in previous years managed to co-opt the
      terms "zen" and then "tao" in the name of making a buck.
      Eventually people's interest will move on to something else.

      Wayne reiterated the same message as always. The "teaching"
      (of nondoership) is, in itself, perfectly useless. It
      cannot be "used" by the mind for anything in particular.
      The teaching is *descriptive*, not *prescriptive*; that is
      to say, it can describe the situation as it exists in
      reality, but you cannot derive from this description any
      specific, guaranteed "plan of action" or behavior out of
      it. I (Petros) noted that, quite simply, "Description
      arises" -- it is a phenomenon that occurs among other
      phemonema. Wayne clarified and extended this by noting that
      "description arises out of a response to questions." When
      there are no questions, there is no "teaching." As long as
      there are questions, there is a teaching that arises in
      response to those questions.

      The teaching is quite simple. It is, that there is no
      "doer." There is merely the one motion of what Wayne
      (followng the lead of his guru Ramesh Balsekar) calls
      "Totality," and which others may call God, Source, Reality,
      Truth, and whatnot. And that the *subjective* experience of
      this fact of nature is what primarily constitutes
      realization, rather than a merely intellectual comprehension
      of it.

      Ramana's atma vichara (method of inquiry, viz. "Who Am I")
      is not a method intended to elicit a specific "answer" (such
      as "I am That.") It is intended to eventually defeat
      itself, or to cancel itself out. Petros noted that the
      putative answers to the inquiry are always different ("I am
      that," "I am not this," "I am all," "I am none," etc.) and
      that, being mere chains of words, none of them is
      "correct." Wayne noted that there can be no answer, period.

      I asked a question about wordless transmission, and Wayne
      reaffirmed its role in creating the resonance (as he calls
      it) between teacher and student, as in the case of himself
      and his teacher Ramesh. This was not understood by my mind,
      I must admit, but it was felt somehow.

      Another question was asked about the time that may be
      required to learn how to bring the teaching to others. I
      felt that it could takes a great length of time just
      learning how to deal with individual people's needs and
      levels of understanding, but Wayne said this belief was just
      a mental construct. I didn't quite believe this right away,
      but a few minutes later I listened as Wayne answered someone
      else's question about a totally different topic, then he
      quipped, "There, how many years did I practice that
      answer?" Then his earlier answer became clear to me. As
      the teaching is not a body of knowledge, nor a technique,
      but merely a point-of-view about reality, it arises
      naturally and automatically as one responds to specific

      The knowledge is right there when it is needed.


      Today NASA, the U.S. government agency in charge of moving machines thru
      space, said it was receiving only Silence from its Mars Polar Lander.
      An innocent bystander remarked, "That's me." It is unknown who this
      person is or even what "who" is. His wife said, "I"m a doer." The
      couple appeared to be on vacation. Silence continues...

      exclusive to the NDS, The Naked Eye
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