Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Highlights, Friday, Dec. 3

Expand Messages
  • umbada@xx.xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx.xxxxx)
    Hello. At Jan B. s suggestion the Files section of Onelist for Nonduality Salon has been set up for the uploading of graphic and other files. There are many
    Message 1 of 1 , Dec 5, 1999
    View Source
    • 0 Attachment
      Hello. At Jan B.'s suggestion the Files section of Onelist
      for
      Nonduality Salon has been set up for the uploading of
      graphic and other files. There are many photos and graphics
      here.

      http://www.onelist.com/files/NondualitySalon/

      You'll have to join Nonduality Salon, but you can sign up
      for No Mail/Web Only status, which will allow you to view
      the pictures without receiving any email.

      As usual, many fine emails were left out of this edition of
      Highlights. They are as good or better than what has been
      included.

      So little time, so many posts!

      --Jerry

      ___________________________________________________________________

      CARLOS DWA (via Bob Maurer)

      Seeing it all before keeps you
      from seeing.

      If you seen it all before
      you don't see anything.

      What you don't know is more
      important than what you do know.

      What you don't know
      is the greater part of
      what you know.

      What you don't know that you know
      is known by the
      greater you.

      Carlos Dwa (copyright, 1999)

      _________________________________________________________________

      LYNNE

      Suffering, hurting, crying

      I wash your feet guru with my tears

      Why can't I be with you? I am you?

      I love you.

      Cry my beloved. There is much reason for crying and
      rejoicing.
      We have found ourselves, again.

      so-so-so-so sorry
      ha-ha-ha-ha happy
      pay-pay-pay-pay pain

      Ready to try again?

      Love
      Lynne (on the bus

      __________________________________________________________________

      JAN KOEHOORN


      At first, there was Somebody, doing Everything
      Then there was Somebody, doing Nothing
      After that, there was Nobody, doing Everything
      And later still, there was Nobody, doing Nothing

      And AAALLLLLLLLLLL the time......
      there was OOOOOOONLY ME!
      Somebody, Nobody, Everything and Nothing
      can all be seen by ME!
      HaHaHa!

      ____________________________________________________________________

      HARSHA

      The wise say that the Tao that can be talked about is not
      The Tao. Still Sages manage to indicate the Existence of
      the Underlying Reality with words and without words. They
      do it because it is their first hand knowledge and it is
      their nature to do it. I am often reminded of the words of
      Ramana Maharshi who used to say that the Reality must Always
      be Real and therefore It must be Here and Now also. If it
      is not Here and Now and is to be gained at some future time,
      then it must be subject to loss also. What can be gained
      can also be lost! Therefore that which is Real, Absolute,
      Eternal cannot be gained. It is what You already Are. Can
      we Accept This? What undermines the acceptance of our Own
      Natural State?


      _________________________________________________________________

      MELODY

      This morning a young girl, aged 13 or 14, told me she had
      gotten in big trouble at school.


      I asked her what happened.


      She told me her story which ended with her being taken to
      the juvenile center and being made to stay there for several
      hours.


      My response was, "I bet you were scared to death."


      She nodded yes, looked me deep in the eye, and allowed the
      beginning of a smile to open on her face.


      And then she melted. She opened up the windows in her eyes
      and invited me to see all of her.


      It was an amazing moment that seemed to last forever.


      Looking at that moment we shared, I realized that had I met
      her with all my 'knowns'..... had I tried to impress upon
      her the wisdom of my years and experience, we would have
      missed that moment....that communion.


      I realized, looking at that moment, how beautiful it was to
      have been free of an agenda...without an itinerary.


      Some moments I feel a bit uneasy about not having 'life' all
      figured out (like I used to!). But this morning I tasted
      again the beauty and freedom of being empty of 'ideas' and
      'solutions'....especially about other people.


      Yet the key to staying empty, I recognize, is to simply let
      that moment flow by, and not try to create a new religion or
      philosophy around it.


      Easier said than done, isn't it? I usually try to bottle
      and package those beautiful moments...those 'tastes'....
      so that I can drink them over and over again, or, in a way,

      make a formula by which other people can have a similar
      taste.


      It's hard to stay completely 'empty'....allowing for those
      spontaneous moments of communion, without making a 'science'
      and 'curriculum' of one's experience.
      ___________________________________________________________________

      TIM GERCHMEZ

      Notice the eyes closely? Do you see? There is no division
      between "inner" and "outer." The two are one in the cat.


      Unlike ourselves, the cat is not burdened with an analyzing,
      intellectual mind that dreams up dualities. It sees reality
      as-is, without the artificial division between "inside" and
      "outside." The experiencer is not, in the cat, there is
      only the experience.


      MARCIA

      A cat does not have the facility to be self-aware. Of the
      four states of consciousness i.e. sleeping, waking sleep,
      self- awareness, and cosmic consciousness, a cat can never
      be self-aware or cosmically conscious. I agree that a cat
      is usually more perfectly a cat than man is man because man
      can evolve and doesn't while a cat is as evolved and perfect
      as a cat will ever be.


      ----------------------------------------

      PHIL BURTON

      What is the "facility to be self-aware"? And how can one be
      so sure what has or has not this facility? Do you get it
      from a book? In other words, is it closed to the
      illiterate?


      These are socratic questions, dear Marcia. I know the
      answer already.
      Self-awareness is universal nature. How do I know that?
      Because I am that. Since the "world" and all of its
      inhabitants dwell in the self, are inseperable from the
      Self, then self-awareness is one. The obverse is: if the
      cat is not "self-aware" then neither are you.


      Throw away the book.


      -----------------------------------------------------------

      SKYE

      To certain degrees all life has self awareness, but not self
      reflection as mankind has.


      A dog cannot recall joyful appreciation of his own state of
      grace from a past comparison nor its anticipated future
      recurrence. Animals do not have our degree of conscious
      memory, the instinctive memory of the cells and organs
      sustains them. They cannot voluntarily summon a memory. A
      dog can remember where he saw his master last, but it is
      triggered by biological urges. They do not have our
      memory's capacity to, at any time, look back through
      itself. The state of grace is unconscious in them, they
      take it for granted. We can know its wonders consciously.


      Self reflection is a unique characteristic of mankind. The
      aware mind can change its beliefs with conscious thought and
      rearrange perception and experience. With this consciously
      "facility to be self-aware" we are to *realize* we are the
      creators of our own reality.


      -----------------------------------------

      WILL

      Beautiful...I perceive

      Knowing
      Emptiness
      Vunerability
      Grace

      wordless

      Pure Love

      __________________________________________________________________


      MIRROR AND SKYE

      skye:
      To certain degrees all life has self awareness, but not self
      reflection as mankind has.


      Mirror:
      Good point skye. By reflection are you referring to
      recalling remembered and registered events/feelings/states,
      and the ability to evaluate memory? (Like thinking about
      thought?)


      skye: Yes, i also spy with my little 'I' something beginning
      with; Consciousness attracts information like a magnet.
      Information is ever reborn and reinterpreted through new
      consciousness, it does not exist by itself. In other word
      consciousness attracts the consciousness that is already
      connected with the material *and* all the consciousness' who
      understand it. Phew!!
      Be it an atom a flower or a human bean :-).


      skye:
      A dog cannot recall joyful appreciation of his own state of
      grace from a past comparison nor its anticipated future
      recurrence.


      Mirror:
      Meaning that the dog doesn't experience desires for a
      repeated recurrence to acomplish a desired state as a means
      to experience (its already innate) happiness?
      This would imply that the dog does not experience mental
      suffering, and its natural happiness is not obscured by
      mental projections.


      skye: Not necessarily, the master who died is a deep
      biological memory, grieved for at every habitual meal,
      homecoming, habits of exercise etc. John F Kennedy jnr's
      dog is suffering dreadfully. It's biology reminds it
      constantly, of affectionate moments no longer shared.


      mirror: As I see it, the natural state is not a state. A
      state being something of the nature of an experience, but
      with a longer duration (residing in a happy state, takes
      longer than experiencing just a short moment of happiness).
      The natural state however, is the emptiness in which this
      experience occurs. It is also the emptiness in which the
      remembering of this experience occurs.
      To me, the natural state is not something that can be
      recalled, but as you state yourself very clearly, the
      experience of joy, is what can be recalled and reflected
      upon.
      Perhaps you are right stating that this reflective quality,
      can only be found in the human species.


      skye: We have burst into a dimension where the natural state
      of grace is interpreted through a kaleidoscope of being. A
      brilliant truth in new clothes, so to speak, clothes of
      uniqueness and originality that no one could have given us
      but ourselves. I'm speaking of recalling the joys of *this
      dimension* for as you say (and i feel it to be so also) "To
      me, the natural state is not something that can be recalled"
      for (as it is with a dog), it is a natural state of grace
      that we are always in, though at the moment human
      Consciousness *seems* to be apart from it and able to
      reflect.


      skye:
      Animals do not have our degree of conscious memory, the
      instinctive memory of the cells and organs sustains them.
      They cannot voluntarily summon a memory.


      Mirror:
      Can we? I could say yes, saying that I can now consciously
      decide to recall last Christmas' Eve. Fine. Then, if my
      memory still serves me well, I can indeed recall events from
      last Christmas' Eve. But then, how did the decision to
      recall that specific memory appear? Who's voluntary decision
      was that?


      skye :-) silence :-)


      skye:
      A dog can remember where he saw his master last, but it is
      triggered by biological urges. They do not have our
      memory's capacity to, at any time, look back through itself.


      Mirror:
      Perhaps I don't have that capacity either. Perhaps I only
      think I do. Perhaps I only believe that I indeed recall
      events that have actually occurred. Perhaps I even find
      proof that they have, because of the situation as I find it
      now. Perhaps this is all delusion. Perhaps thought is
      perpetuating this illusion every milisecond again. Creating
      a reality that I believe exists as a result of past
      occurrences. Perhaps the mind is only clinging to this
      believe in order to keep its ability to create time and
      space enabled. Perhaps indeed, the dog cannot look beyond
      that which is at hand NOW. Which is fine, by the way.
      Because manifest reality takes care of itself. Every
      milisecond again. Regardless of reflective qualities
      enabled or disabled.


      skye: Yes, perhaps :-))))

      skye:
      The state of grace is unconscious in them, they take it for
      granted. We can know its wonders consciously.


      Mirror:
      We are the consciousness that is aware of its wonders. I
      agree that this "awareness of awareness" is grace in itself,
      experienced as bliss.

      skye:
      Self reflection is a unique characteristic of mankind. The
      aware mind can change its beliefs with conscious thought and
      rearrange perception and experience. With this consciously
      "facility to be self-aware" we are to *realize* we are the
      creators of our own reality.

      ____________________________________________________________________

      TIM GERCHMEZ

      Could someone explain the meaning and origins of the term
      "Cosmic Consciousness?" All it brings to mind here is a
      picture of a hippy on LSD wearing a headband, with asteroids
      rotating around his head :-)


      Sounds like some sort of new-age hokum. Does "Cosmically
      conscious" have anything to do with the natural state
      (realization), or is it something Timothy Leary cooked up in
      a test tube in the 60's? :-)


      -----------------------------------------------

      BRUCE MORGEN

      My first exposure to the term was via Maharishi Mahesh
      Yogi's early TM movement literature.
      "MMY," as TMers call him, claims lineage back to Shankara,
      so perhaps it is his English rendering of a term from
      Shankara's canon. I no longer have a handle on a
      definition, but I recall it as clearly related to
      "realization" as discussed here -- I'm just not sure eactly
      how....


      ---------------------------------------------------

      DAVID HODGES

      Actually, Tim, the term "Cosmic Consciousness" doesn't come
      from Tim Leary, it is the title of a book published in 1905
      called "Cosmic Consciousness: A Study in the Evolution of
      the Human Mind" by Richard Maurice Bucke, M.D. The book is
      still in print and is very readable. Using case studies
      from the experiences of people including Walt Whitman and
      Ralph Waldo Emerson, Bucke discusses the potential within us
      for expanded states of consciousness, within the context of
      his theory of spiritual evolution. It was a very
      influential book. I read it some years ago. I remember the
      chapter on Whitman being especially interesting and forever
      changed the way I read his poetry.


      ------------------------------------------------------------

      TIM HARRIS

      Rather than take the 'obvious' poke and say it is just
      another 'label' and you have stated clearly that you have no
      interest in these labels (Labels?! We don't need no
      'stinking' labels! ... Ren and Stimpy?)...


      The concept or idea of 'cosmic consciousness' is the very
      thing that you describe however, unlike your own 'self'
      ideas it is one that embraces the 'whole' that includes
      beyond your self... in other words, your world, my world
      and every 'others' world as a function within the whole.


      -----------------------------------------------------

      RAINBO

      Responding to the digest which is no longer in the list of
      emails, but this term, "cosmic consciousness" originates
      beyond what I've been able to source, there are roots in
      translations from an occultist of the sixteenth century by
      the name of Janduz (this was a nom de plume) who was
      translating occult symbols used by the Arabs and the Greeks,
      including Teuchros the Babylonian in AD 50, which includes
      degree symbols and which the first century Manilius based
      his own work on.
      From there it reappears in Alfonso el Sabia (Alphon the
      sage) and d'Abano who knew each other in 13th century
      Spain. I first ran into this from a relative who had access
      to the Vatican library.



      ____________________________________________________________________

      XAN

      excerpts from Talks with Ramana Maharshi:



      From the Guru's outlook the Guru is only Self. ...
      Is not then the Self your Guru? Where else will Grace come
      from? It is from the Self alone.
      Manifestation of the Self is manifestation of Grace and vice
      versa. ... Nothing is external to the Self.


      ..........................


      The guru is both interior and exterior. From the exterior
      he gives a push to the mind to turn inward; from the
      interior he pulls the mind towards the Self and helps the
      mind to achieve quietness. That is Grace. Hence there is
      no difference between God, Guru and Self.


      ..............................


      As long as you seek Self-Realization the Guru is necessary.
      Take Guru to be the Real Self and your self as the
      individual self. The disappearance of this sense of duality
      is removal of ignorance. ... You are the Self and so is
      the Guru.


      student: How can know whether a particular individual is
      competent to be a Guru?


      By the peace of mind found in his presence and by the sense
      of respect you feel for him.


      .................


      You imagine [Guru] to be like yourself. Because you are
      with a body you think that he is also a body in order to do
      something tangible to you. His work lies within. How is
      Guru gained? God, who is immanent, in his Grace takes pity
      on the loving devotee and manifests Himself as a being
      according to the devotee's standard. The devotee thinks
      that he is a man and expects relationship as between
      bodies.
      But the Guru, who is God or Self incarnate, works from
      within, helps the man to see the error of his ways, guides
      him in the right path until he realizes the Self within.


      .........................


      The Guru is quiet and peace prevails in all.
      His silence is more vast and more emphatic than all the
      teachings put together.


      .......................


      There is a stanza in Kaivalya which says, "O Guru! You have
      been always with me watching me through several incarnations
      and ordaining my course until I was liberated," The Self
      manifests externally as Guru when occasion arises; otherwise
      He is always within, doing the needful.
      ____________________________________________________________________

      The Pathway of Nonduality

      by Raphael

      Chapter 14

      The Siddhis (concluded)


      This concludes the book. What I plan to do with it is
      insert chapters in appropriate places throughout the
      Nonduality Salon website. Hope you've enjoyed parts of it.
      This last one is pretty interesting.


      Jerry
      --------------------------------------------------------------
      Q. You said before that a power is a faculty which
      influences the environment. What difference is there
      between this influence and that of the Saint?


      A. The difference is great indeed. The influence of a
      power acts:


      (1) upon the psycho-physical plane; (2) upon the plane of
      force-energy; (3) within the field of subject-object
      duality; (4) upon the plane of the ego's will; (5) in order
      to obtain a physical or psychological advantage.


      The influence of the Realized one operates:


      (1) upon the spiritual plane; (2) upon the plane of
      'innocence', of non-resistance. The influence of the
      Realized one is irradiation that expands naturally, like the
      fragrance of a flower; (3) within the field of pure Subject,
      because it does not pay any attention to the object. The
      Realized one does not try or seek or desire to influence
      others.
      (4) Upon the plane of non-will, non-desire, because it has
      no selfish aims; (5) therefore, upon the plane of
      'donation', of pure Love, since it is his own particular
      consciousness vibration that resounds.


      Thus, while psychic powers operate in the sphere of
      individualized existence, spiritual power acts within the
      sphere of the supraindividual or the universal.


      The influence of the Realized one becomes a 'magnetic field'
      at the centre of the world, while that of the psyche is a
      simple relationship between a single subject and an object.


      Q. Can we say, therefore, that the Realized one 'vibrates'
      sat-cit-ananda, while the person who has psychic powers must
      use a force, a faculty in order to obtain cerain effects?


      A. Yes, indeed. The Realized one is pure Consciousness
      without superimposition, he is Being, while the person
      having psychic powers is an individuality speaking to other
      individualities by means of tools of 'persuasion'.


      Q. Can power be used simply out of vanity?


      A. Yes. This is the less harmful of possibilities, even if
      the most fleeting. Vanity is one of the many psychological
      'advantages' that one may receive from the exercise of a
      power.


      Q. Are power-faculties mere accidents of prakriti after
      all?


      A. Yes. Instead sat, cit, ananda are not attributes or
      accidents or Being, but are nature of Being. The are
      consubstantial with Being itself.


      Bliss-fulfilment is not a psychic power; Intelligence or
      Consciousness is not a psychic power. A psychic power is
      the faculty to perceive sensorially, behind which operate
      the Universal Intelligence, Being and Consciousness.


      Power represents the exercise of a faculty which can come
      into being and die, can exist or cannot exist. It operates,
      as we have already said, upon the plane of duality,
      therefore, on the plane of non-being. Sat-cit-ananda is
      Being, it is ever-existent since it belongs to non-becoming.


      Power operates upon the plane of necessity, while
      sat-cit-ananda acts upon the plane of freedom.


      Material or psychic wealth is needed to acquire something
      that one does not possess; he who possesses everything
      within himself does not seek either material or psychic
      wealth.


      Q. Does the metaphysical pathway oppose such powers?


      A. It cannot oppose them, as they are powers and faculties
      that belong to prakriti itself. It cannot, obviously, agree
      with the use that is often made of them. Even Jesus made
      use of similar powers and these were not only used with
      understanding but we can say that they did not belong to the
      psychic sphere as this sphere represented just a channel of
      the universal Will. The universal Consciousness was making
      use of 'phenomena' for certain, and obviously
      non-individual, purposes.
      -------------

      end, The Pathway of Non-duality

      ____________________________________________________________________

      JAN BARENDRECHT

      Olde Fart: It is said that animals, as all sentient beings,
      have buddhanature.


      Jan: What one can have, one can lose. Such a buddhanature
      is rather worthless. But if the essence is buddhanature,
      there is just one buddhanature and having/losing does not
      apply, nor the question "who has...?" and "who doesn't
      have?".


      ___________________________________________________________________

      Nonduality Salon Website
      http://www.nonduality.com
      Nonduality Salon Email Forum
      http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/nondualitysalon
      Nonduality Salon List of Nondual People
      http://www.nonduality.com/morea.htm
      Encyclopedia of Nonduality
      http://www.nonduality.com/context.htm
      Nonduality Salon Chat
      http://www.eScribe.com/religion/nondualitysalon/chat
      New to Chat? Please consider the following suggestions:
      http://dragon.minopher.net.au/WebEd/protocol.htm
    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.