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Highlights, Saturday, Nov. 27

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  • umbada@xx.xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx.xxxxx)
    Things were fairly quiet Saturday. Sunday looks very interesting, with several hours to go!. A warm welcome to subscribers, old and new. Love, Jerry
    Message 1 of 1 , Nov 28, 1999
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      Things were fairly quiet Saturday. Sunday looks very
      interesting, with several hours to go!. A warm welcome to
      subscribers, old and new.

      Love,
      Jerry
      ___________________________________________________________________
      ANDREW

      Krishnamurti talks with children about fear and death and
      time;

      -------------------

      Krishnamurti: You cannot have an innocent fresh young mind
      if you are ridden with fear, if from childhood until you
      die, you are trained in fear. That is why a good education,
      a true education eliminates fear.

      Student: How can one be completely free from fear?

      Krishnamurti: First of all, you must know what fear is. To
      know about something completely makes the mind free from
      fear. How will you find out about fear? Are you afraid of
      public opinion, public opinion being what your friends think
      of you?

      Most of us, especially while we are young, want to look
      alike, dress alike, talk alike. We do not want to be even
      slightly different, because to be different implies not to
      conform, not to accept the pattern. When you begin to
      question the pattern there is fear.

      Now examine that fear, go into it. Do not say,"I am
      afraid", and run away from it. Look at it, face it and find
      out why you are afraid. Suppose I am afraid of my neighbour,
      my wife, my god, my country--now what is that fear? Is it
      actual or is it merely in thought, in time?

      I will take a simpler example. We are all going to die some
      time or other. Death is inevitable for all of us and
      thinking about death creates fear, thinking about something
      which I do not know creates fear. But if it were actual, if
      death were there immediately and I were going to die now,
      there is no fear. You understand?

      Thought in time creates fear. But if something has to be
      done immediately there is no fear, because thinking is not
      possible. If I am going to die the next instant, then I
      face it, but give me an hour, and I begin to say,"My
      property, my children, my country, I have not finished my
      book." I get nervous, frightened. So fear is always in time,
      because time is thought.

      To eliminate fear you have to consider thought as time and
      then enquire into this whole process of thinking. It is a
      little bit difficult. I am afraid of my parents, my society,
      of what they will say tomorrow or ten days later. My
      thinking about what might happen projects fear. So can I
      say,"I am going to look at that fear now, not ten days
      later"? Can I invite what they will say into the present and
      look at it and if they happen to be right, can I accept it?
      Why should I be frightened? And if they are wrong, I also
      accept that. Why should they not be wrong? Why should I be
      frightened? So, when I face fear it goes away. But to face
      fear I have to enquire, which is quite a complex process
      because it involves the problem of time.

      You know, there are two kinds of time; time by the watch,
      the next minute, tonight, the day after tomorrow; and there
      is another kind of time which is created by the psyche
      inside one, by thought--"I shall be a great man","I shall
      have a job","I shall go to Europe"--that is the
      psychological future, in time and space. Now to understand
      chronological time by the watch and to understand time as
      thought and to go beyond both, is really to be free of fear.

      Student: You said if you know something, you stop feeling
      afraid of it.
      But how do you know what death is?

      Krishnamurti: That is a good question. You are asking,"How
      do you know what death is and how can you cease to be
      frightened of it?" I am going to show you. You know, there
      are two kinds of death--bodily death and death of thought.
      The body is going to die eventually--like a pencil writing,
      it eventually wears out. Doctors may invent new kinds of
      medicine; you may last 120 years instead of 80 years. But
      still there will be death. The physical organism come to an
      end. We are not afraid of that. What we are afraid of is
      the coming to an end of thought, of the "me" that has lived
      so many years, the "me" that has acquired so much money,
      that has a family, children, that wants to become important,
      that wants to have more property, money. That "me" dying is
      what we are afraid of. Do you see the difference between
      the two? The physical dying and the "me" dying?

      The "me" dying is psychologically much more important than
      the body's dying and that is what we are frightened of. Now
      take one pleasure, and die to it. I will explain this to
      you. You see I do not want to go into the whole problem; I
      am merely indicating something. You see the "me" is the
      collection of many pleasures and many pains. Can that "me"
      die to one thing? Then it will know what death means. That
      is, can I die to a wish? Can I say "I do not want that
      wish, I do not want that pleasure"? Can I end it, die to it?

      Krishnamurti: Do you know anything about meditation?

      Student: No, Sir.

      Krishnamurti: But the older people do not know either. They
      sit in a corner, close their eyes and concentrate, like
      school children trying to concentrate on a book. That is
      not meditation. Meditation is something extraordinary, if
      you know how to do it. I am going to talk a little about
      it.

      First of all, sit very quietly; do not force yourself to sit
      quietly, but sit or lie down quietly without force of any
      kind. Do you understand? Then watch your thinking. Watch
      what you are thinking about.

      You find out you are thinking about your shoes, your saris,
      what you are going to say, the bird outside to which you
      listen: follow such thoughts and enquire why each thought
      arises. Do not try to change your thinking.

      See why certain thoughts arise in your mind so that you
      begin to understand the meaning of every thought and every
      feeling without any enforcement. And when a thought arises,
      do not condemn it, do not say it is right, it is wrong, it
      is good, it is bad. Just watch it, so that you begin to
      have a perception, a consciousness which is active in seeing
      every kind of thought, every kind of feeling. You will know
      every hidden secret thought, every hidden motive, every
      feeling, without distortion, without saying it is right,
      wrong, good or bad. When you look, when you go into thought
      very very deeply, your mind becomes extraordinarily subtle,
      alive. No part of the mind is asleep. The mind is
      completely awake.

      That is merely the foundation. Then your mind is very
      quiet. Your whole being becomes very still. Then go into
      that stillness, deeper, further--that whole process is
      meditation. Meditation is not to sit in a corner repeating
      a lot of words; or to think of a picture and go into some
      wild ecstatic imaginings.

      To understand the whole process of your thinking and feeling
      is to be free from all thought, to be free from all feeling
      so that your mind, your whole being becomes very quiet. And
      that is also part of life and with that quietness, you can
      look at the tree, you can look at people, you can look at
      the sky and stars. That is the beauty of life.


      LYNNE

      This (Krishnamurti) series is helping me tremendously. I
      guess that means my mind is "as a child's"? :)

      Friendship (to me) means allowing people who care about you
      to challenge you to grow, and comfort you when you need it.

      FRIENDSHIP

      I will value the comfort of friendship and hold a true
      friend dear. Soul is expressed through human relationship;
      care of relationships is care of the soul. Relationships
      are what trigger my anxieties.
      Intimacy acts like a black light under which my emotional
      cracks show up.

      In a close friendship I have an opportunity to see and feel
      those cracks, to allow them to be looked at so that I can
      work with them and heal. A friend is someone with whom I
      can explore my limits and become more me.

      I value friendship in my life.

      "Friendship is the comfort, the inexpressible comfort of
      feeling safe with a person, having neither to weigh thoughts
      nor measure words, but pouring all right out just as they
      are, chaff and grain together, certain that a faithful,
      friendly hand will take and sift them, keep what is worth
      keeping and with a breath of comfort, blow the rest away."
      - George Eliot
      __________________________________________________________________

      ELAINE

      ...when I judge how I am to use "time," I think I need
      time. When I just live in the moment to moment without
      judgment in how I am to be, I have no use for time.
      Therefore time is not part of my being and is not a reality
      for me in that moment.

      At this time (pun intended) I fluctuate because sometimes I
      still mistakenly think there is a choice to be made. When I
      reach the point where I know always, that there is no choice
      to be made (not just intellectually but experientially) then
      time will no longer exist for me. I will no longer have a
      use or need for it. This is how everything that I believed
      so strongly in has dropped away for me. Im not there yet,
      but they are all disappearing one at a time with no feelings
      of lack or sacrifice.
      ____________________________________________________________________

      BOB BAYS

      I am prompted by recent posts by Elaine and Kristi to submit
      the following from A Course in Miracles, as edited by
      Frances Vaughan and Roger Walsh for their book Accept This
      Gift:

      A NEW BEGINNING

      There will come a time when images have all gone by, and you
      will see you know not what you are.
      It is to this unsealed and open mind that truth returns,
      unhindered and unbound.
      Where concepts of the Self have been laid by is truth
      revealed exactly as it is.

      Let us be still an instant, and forget all things we ever
      learned, all thoughts we had, and every preconception that
      we hold of what things mean and what their purpose is.
      Let us remember not our own ideas of what the world is for.
      We do not know.
      Let every image held of everyone be loosened from our minds
      and swept away.
      Be innocent of judgment, unaware of any thoughts of evil or
      of good that ever crossed your mind of anyone.
      Now do you know him not.
      But you are free to learn of him, and learn of him anew.

      Only be quiet.
      You wll need no rule but this, to let your practicing today
      lift you above he thinking of the world, and free your
      vision from the body's eyes.
      Only be still and listen.

      Simply do this:
      Be still, and lay aside all thoughts of what you are and
      what God is; all concepts you have learned about the world;
      all images you hold about yourself.
      Empty your mind of everything it thinks is either true or
      false, or good or bad, of every thught it judges worthy, and
      all the ideas of which it is ashamed.
      Hold onto nothing.
      Do not bring with you one thought the past has taught, nor
      one belief you ever learned before from anything.
      Forget this world, forget this course, and come with wholly
      empty hands unto your God.

      (T 613; T 602; WB 221; WB 350)

      OM shantih, Bob B, ..............................
      http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Atlantis/4216/humnat.html
      ____________________________________________________________________

      LARRY

      Glimpse

      The inner voice speaks for no one.
      There is simply no one there.
      Fancy cloths without an emperor.
      Now what?

      __________________________________________________________________

      JUDI

      ***********
      In the new Knee Of Listening (Da) elaborates his
      relationship with Rudi and Muktananda. He very clearly
      states his differences wtih Rudi and Muktanada, but also how
      he appreciates them for what they gave to him. The primary
      differnce is that Rudi and Muktanada teach the search which
      Da will not do. He makes no bones to the fact that what he
      offers is a relationship, which is truth itself. As he has
      simply put it over and over how many times..."love or not,
      that is all there is to it."

      **************
      And here is from Method of the Siddhas, chapter 'the Heaven
      Born Gospel of Da'...

      "The functions of spiritual life take place in the form of a
      relationship! It is the relationship between the devoted
      disciple and the Siddha-Guru. It doesn't take place at the
      level of some philosophy or some technique that you apply to
      yourself. It is a relationship, and it appears only where it
      is alive, only where it is actually functioning in life.
      Therefore, many of the same functions that exist between
      lovers exist between guru and disciple."

      ******** Duh!!! :-)


      And here he says it again.... from chapter "Meditation and
      Satsang"...

      "Nothing is offered by me but Satsang with me. Nothing is
      given but this relationship, because it is Truth. Those who
      finally live it as the condition of life receive everything,
      because this relationship is also the medium of Truth.
      Everything rests on one's ability to realize this
      relationship."

      ******* The key words are "condition of life"
      _____________________________________________________________________

      OLDE FART

      The most profound reality in Buddhism is that there is no
      final, ultimate reality. Perhaps some people think that the
      highest truth in Buddhism is Buddha-nature, True Suchness,
      which is sometimes referred to as the True Characteristic of
      all phenomena. Actually, this is not the highest truth.
      Ultimately, there is not even a Buddha, let alone
      Buddha-nature or True Suchness.


      _____________________________________________________________________
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