Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Highlights, Friday, Nov. 26

Expand Messages
  • umbada@xx.xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx.xxxxx)
    TIM HARRIS I can say that I know truly nothing about this nonduality stuff as it seems that the more I learn the more I realize there is to know and, as you,
    Message 1 of 1 , Nov 27, 1999

      I can say that I know truly nothing about this nonduality
      'stuff' as it seems that the more I learn the more I realize
      there is to know and, as you, I am a but a humble student
      fitting for the scrapes of understanding that the 'giants'
      leave lying around.

      All I know is what these great teachers of mine in this
      nonduality group have shown me, wrestled with me, beat me up
      and left my finger tips bruised from pounding the key board
      in anger (which is a lesson in and of itself). Please, do
      not be intimidated by expressing your 'lame' views to this
      group. It is the only way to quickly get up to speed.

      After a view confrontations generated by hanging your 'ass'
      on the line you will quickly pick up the language and from
      there you will find that we are 'all' a bunch of misguided
      'head scratchers' looking at the map. Some say "let us go
      back to where we went astray" and others say "Let us
      re-design our path from here" and that, my friend, is where
      the real fun begins...

      You are in good company.


      (Quoting from Adi Da's autobiography, The Knee of Listening,
      its most famous portion, about which Alan Watts said it
      alone was worth buying the book for.)

      The Man of Understanding is not 'entranced'. He is not
      'elsewhere'. He is not having an 'experience'. He is not
      passionless and inoffensive.
      He is Awake. He is Merely and 'Brightly' Present. He knows
      no obstruction in the the form of mind, identity,
      differentiation, and desire. He uses mind, identity,
      differentiation, and desire. He is passionate. His quality
      is an offense to those who are entranced, elsewhere,
      contained in the mechanics of experience, asleep, living as
      various forms of identity, separation, and dependence. He
      is acceptable only to those who understand.

      He may appear no different from any other man. How could he
      appear otherwise? There is nothing by which to appear
      except the qualities of life. He may appear to have learned
      nothing. He may seem to be addicted to every kind of
      foolishness and error. How could it be otherwise?

      Understanding is not a different communication than the
      ordinary. There is only the ordinary. There is no
      ordinariness-excluding Communication that is the Truth.
      There is no everything-excluding State that is the Truth.
      But there is the understanding of the ordinary.

      Therefore, the Man of Understanding cannot be found, except
      by the living heart. He cannot be followed except to teh
      'Bright' Divine Heart Itself. He can only be understood,
      even as the ordinary must be understood. He is not
      (conventionally)'Spiritual'. He is not
      (conventionally)'religious'. He is not
      (conventionally)'philosophical'. He is not
      (conventionally)'moral'. He is not (conventionally)
      'fastidious', 'lean', and 'lawful'. He always appears to be
      the opposite of what you are. He always seems to sympathize
      with what you deny. Therefore, at times and over time, he
      appears as every kind of persuasion. He is not consistent.
      He has no self-image. At times he denies. At times he
      asserts. At times he asserts what he has already denied. At
      times he denies what he has already asserted. Therefore, he
      is not 'useful'. His Teaching is every kind of 'nonsense'.
      His Wisdom, it seems, is vanished. Altogether, that 'is' is
      his Wisdom.

      At last he represents no separate Truth at all. His
      paradoxes deny every seeker's 'Truth', every path by which
      mankind depends on mere simulations of Freedom and
      Enjoyment. He is a seducer, a madman, a trickster, a
      libertine, a rascal, a fool, a moralist, a sayer of truths,
      a bearer of all experience, a prince, a king, a child, an
      old one, an ascetic, a saint, a god. By mumming (or mock
      playing) every seeker's role of life, he demonstrates the
      futility of every seeker's path of life, except he always
      coaxes every one to only understand. Therefore, by all of
      this, he makes understanding the only possibility. And
      understanding makes no difference at all. Except it is
      Reality, Which was already the case.

      Heartless one, Narcissus, friend, loved one, he weeps for
      you to understand. After all of this, why have you not
      understood? The only thing you have not done is
      understanding. You have seen everything, but you do not
      understand. Therefore, to 'Brighten' your heart, the Man of
      Understanding Joyfully suggests that you have already
      understood! He looks at the world and sees that every one
      and every thing has always understood! He sees that there
      is only understanding! Thus, the Man of Understanding is
      constantly Happy with you. He is overwhelmed with
      Happiness. He says to you" "See that there is only this
      world of Perfect Freedom and Enjoyment, where every one is
      Love-Bliss-Happy, and every thing is Love-Bliss-Full! His
      'Bright' Heart is always tearful with the endless Happiness
      of the world.

      He has grasped the Truth within the ordinary, but no one is
      interested in Truth. Because he has become the Truth, he is
      of interest to no one. Because he is so ordinary, he is of
      interest to everyone. Because no one understands the
      ordinary, he is not understood. Because there is only the
      ordinary, he will become famous for understanding it.
      Because there is only the Truth, he is the Beloved of all.
      Because you feel you understand him, you find it necessary
      to touch his hand. Because you love him, you find it
      possible to touch his ears. He smiles at you. You notice a
      sudden 'Brightness'. Everything has already died. "This" is
      the 'other' world.


      Happy thanksgiving to everyone!

      I've been thinking about sharing some non-duality teachings
      with some of my family members (who speak/read only in
      spanish)- stuff like J.K, Nisargadatta, or any other stuff.
      The more accessible the better.

      If anyone has any suggestions for my book hunt, please let
      me know.

      the other idea I had was printing out spanish version stuff
      from whatever web sites may have it and just give them a
      binder of collected works. My intent here is to share with
      them something that has impacted me in my life- basically
      just to share of myself ans open up further possibilities in
      sharing and openess.

      thank you all so much,



      Four Ramana Maharshi books online in Spanish here;



      Dear Tomas, You may contact Rony Mishal about this. He
      lives in Spain and is running a small bookstore, as far as I
      know especially with books on this topic.
      Perhaps he can help or redirect you for some titles. His
      address is ronymish@... (he doesn't speak Spanish
      himself though).
      You may also try the Latin American online bookstores like
      www.losandes.com (presently under construction).
      Personally I have been searching for I AM THAT by
      Nisargadatta in Spanish, but I never found it. I know it
      exists. It was translated into Spanish in the '80s:
      ISBN: 84-86221-97-8autor: Maharaj, Nisargadatta t�tulo: Yo
      soy eso traductor: Frutos, Ricardo detraducido del:
      Ingl�slengua publ.:
      Castellanoeditor: SIRIO. Editorial Sirio, S.A. prf: 7808 ;
      86221. SAN
      002-6751.serie: Violetaedici�n: 1. ed.fecha aparici�n:
      03-1988colaci�n: 750 p. ; 13x21 cmencuadernaci�n:
      teladocumento: 8803771precio: 2500 pta CDU:
      133.52 materia: . Astrolog�a. fecha alta: 21-03-88fecha
      modif: 01-02-88

      I would be most grateful if you would let me know, in case
      you come up with some fruitful results.

      Con cari�o


      Some J.K.'s books in Spanish can be purchased by order at
      the KFA:

      Krishnamurti Foundation of America P.O. Box 1560, Ojai,
      California 93024-1560 USA

      Krishnamurti Diaro (Krishnamurti's Notebook), $7.95
      Krishnamurti Diaro II (Krishnamurti's Journal), $6.95 La
      Totalidad de la Vida (The Wholeness of Life), $7.50
      TIM G: I'm just beginning to sense anything but the sense of
      BEING as an unnecessary burden, in fact an exhausting and
      misery-producing burden. I can only speak from my own
      experience. I don't think I need anything but what I have
      always had and always will have - Myself.

      SKYE: Yes, we all have our yoga. In my journey the wonders
      of the universe do not strike me as necessary or unnecessary
      burdens, even in the depths of turmoil. But if i were to
      let myself rage because i have a belief that the universe is
      not living up to my expectations, then i suppose would i
      feel something like your exhaustion and sense of
      mis-produced burdens.


      So yes, strive to silence that pesky little voice in your
      head. To walk in a world balanced on the edge of becoming.
      That's all my kind really asks.


      Like Xan already pointed out earlier in a similar way:
      You already ARE silence. The nature of your beingness IS
      silence. Thus, it is your very nature that allows you to
      hear noise, to see images, to experience sensations. You
      need not create silence by trying to silence something that
      is making noise. Silence is primary. The noise floats,
      drifts and plays within it. Be yourself. Be this silence
      and there is no need to silence anything.
      Now if you are trying to create silence, wishing this pesky
      voice away, you are striving for a "conditional silence". A
      conditional silence that depends on whether or not a pesky
      little voice is present. The unconditional silence, you
      need not strive for. The unconditional silence, that you
      This silence is what makes this lovely pesky little voice



      Krishnamurti talking with children at Rishi Valley school,
      India, about


      I wondered--the other day when I saw you all having a good
      time--what is going to happen to you all? Will you live a
      life with fire burning in you or will you become for the
      rest of your life a businessman or a housewife? What are
      you going to do? Should you not be educated to cut through
      respectability, to burst through all conformity? Probably I
      am saying something dangerous, but it does not matter.
      Perhaps you will give an ear and perhaps this will sink
      somewhere into your consciousness and perhaps in a moment
      when you are about to make a decision, this may alter the
      course of your life.

      Student: How is one to be sensitive?

      Krishnamurti: I do not know if you noticed the other
      evening, it was drizzling. There was a sharp shower. There
      were dark, heavy, rain-laden clouds. There were also clouds
      that were full of light, white, with a rose-coloured light
      inside them, And there were clouds that were almost like
      feathers going by. It was a marvellous sight and there was
      great beauty. If you do not see these things when you are
      young, when you are still curious, when you are still
      indecisive, when you are still looking, searching, asking;
      if you do not feel now, then you never will. As you grow
      older life encloses you, life becomes hard. You hardly look
      at the hills, a beautiful face or a smile. Without feeling
      affection, kindness, tenderness, life becomes very dreary,
      ugly, brutal. And as you grow older, you fill your lives
      with politics, with concern over your jobs, over your
      families. You become afraid and gradually lose that
      extraordinary quality of looking at the sunset, at clouds,
      at the stars of an evening. As you grow older, the
      intellect begins to create havok with your lives. I do not
      mean that you must not have a clear, reasoning intellect,
      but the predominance of it makes you dull, makes you lose
      the finer things of life. You must feel very strongly about
      everything, not just one or two things, but about
      everything. If you feel very strongly, then little things
      will not fill your life. Politics, jobs, careers are all
      little things. If you feel strongly, if you feel vitally,
      vigorously, you will live in a state of deep silence. Your
      mind will be very clear, simple, strong. As men grow older
      they lose this quality of feeling, this sympathy, this
      tenderness for others. Having lost it they begin to invent
      religions. They go to temples, take drinks, take drugs, to
      awaken this spontaneity. They become religious, but religion
      in the world is put together by man. All temples, churches,
      dogmas, beliefs are invented by man. Man is afraid because
      he is lost without a deep sense of beauty, a deep sense of
      affection. And, having lost this, superficial ceremonies,
      repeating mantras, rituals become very important. In
      reality, they have no importance at all. Religion born of
      fear becomes ugly superstition. (p29-30)


      Student: Why do we all want to live?

      Krishnamurti: Don't laugh because a little boy asks, when
      life is so transient, why do we crave to live? Isn't it
      very sad for a little boy to ask that question? That means
      he has seen for himself that everything passes away. Birds
      die, leaves fall, people grow old, man has disease, pain,
      sorrow, suffering; a little joy, a little pleasure, and
      unending work. And the boy asks why do we cling to all
      this? He sees how young people grow old before their age,
      before their time. He sees death. And man clings to life
      because there is nothing else to cling to. His gods, his
      temples, don't contain truth; his sacred books are just
      words. So he asks why people cling to life when there is
      such misery.
      You understand?
      What do you answer? What do the older people answer? What
      do the teachers of this school answer? There is silence.
      The older people have lived on ideas, on words and the boy
      says, "I am hungry, feed me with food, not with words." He
      does not trust you and so he asks, "Why do we cling to all
      this?" Do you know why you cling? Because you know nothing
      else. You cling to your house, you cling to your books, you
      cling to your idols, gods, conclusions, your attachments,
      your sorrows, because you have nothing else and all that you
      do brings unhappiness. To find out if there is anything
      else, you must let go of what you cling to. If you want to
      cross the river, you must move away from this bank. You
      cannot sit on one bank. You want to be free from misery and
      yet you will not cross the river. So, you cling to
      something that you know however miserable it is and you are
      afraid to let go because you don't know what is on the other
      side of the river.

      having visited the Osho Zen Tarot web page and having been
      given this card:

      11. Breakthrough

      To transform breakdowns into breakthroughs is the whole
      function of a master. The psychotherapist simply patches
      you up. That is his function. He is not there to transform
      you. You need a meta-psychology, the psychology of the
      It is the greatest adventure in life to go through a
      breakdown consciously. It is the greatest risk because
      there is no guarantee that the breakdown will become a
      breakthrough. It does become, but these things cannot be
      Your chaos is very ancient--for many, many lives you have
      been in chaos. It is thick and dense. It is almost a
      universe in itself.
      So when you enter into it with your small capacity, of
      course there is danger. But without facing this danger
      nobody has ever become integrated, nobody has ever become an
      individual, indivisible.
      Zen, or meditation, is the method which will help you to go
      through the chaos, through the dark night of the soul,
      balanced, disciplined, alert.
      The dawn is not far away, but before you can reach the dawn,
      the dark night has to be passed through. And as the dawn
      comes closer, the night will become darker.



      TIM H: "this world is a paradox thus is not real"

      LYNNE: And yet we "play the game" all the same, because that
      is all there is to do?

      TIM H: No Lynne, I do not believe this. There is no 'game'
      to 'play'. Reality is perception. There is no reality. No
      reality, no game. No game, nothing to do.... except
      inflict huge suffering on a world of people that were never
      given a chance. Why no chance? Fear. Fear of what? Fear
      that those with the resources will face the fact that they
      may be wrong. So totally wrong. Does a 'thing' require our
      'belief' to exist? No.

      The argument that God does not exist is valid in the sense
      that a 'conscious' God is so far beyond where one finds
      one's 'present' level of conscious awareness that God might
      as well not exist. However, if we evolve consciously in
      'that' direction then eventually, the veil will be dropped
      and 'all' will find themselves with their 'just' rewards.

      This is the path that I am on. Unlike others, I believe
      that we live in a very consciously aware global poulation
      (as far as those that oppress go) and I race for the 'place'
      where these 'heads' are held accountable to a universal law
      of 'conscience'. That is my way of non-harm. My 'version'
      of ahimsa. I sit down here in the sewers 'by choice'
      'observing' the desicration of humanity and, even now as I
      go without food for days so that my son goes to school with
      a full belly, I revel in the days when those that 'know'
      better sat by and watched it happen with their thumbs up
      their asses all in the name of 'nothing to do'...
      there are 'no' free rides if I have anything to say about it
      and, frankly, I think I do.

      Further, action/reaction, cause/effect, law of Dharma, law
      of truth, are consistent and proven beyond doubt.
      Does the principles of 'karma' require our belief to exist?
      No. If we 'choose' to believe that these laws do not apply
      to us do they? Yes. After all, there is no distinction
      between good and evil but the law is the constant.

      Is it considered 'good' and 'kind' to starve people in a
      world of plenty? Is it 'good' and 'kind' to kill in the
      name of the very God you do not believe exists? Is it
      considered 'good' and 'kind' to mentally and physically
      abuse children? Is it 'good' and 'kind' to rob a man and/or
      a women of their dignity and label them so that they can not
      even get 'shit jobs' to provide a simple meal for their
      family? Is 'good' and 'kind' to rob people of their ideas
      rather than provide them with the resources needed to
      develop them?

      We all bitch about violent crime when it rears its head on
      our 'turf' and yet we fail to see that the expression of
      violent crime is generated from an environment that we,
      through starvation of resources, have created. By the time
      it hits you it is because it is overflowing into your
      neighborhood. Yet, we blame the youth and the criminals as
      if we ever gave them a choice how much of 'crime' is based
      in the very survial of a man?...

      Were we fall short on 'playing the game' with any sort of
      'expertice' is that we live in a world where 'treatment' is
      more profitable than 'cures' and as the human man becomes
      resistent to the diseases we 'create more'... thus, if it
      is 'all about playing the game'... then quite frankly,
      those that play are not very good at the game. Step up to
      the Majors if you think you can hack it... I am not
      'fighting' the good fight to give everyone a free ticket to
      'heaven', nirvana, paridise, Eden, so do as you wish
      here... no.
      I fight to preserve goodness and kindness, patience and long
      suffering, tolerance and peace in a world that has forgotten
      about what these things mean.

      We think we are all 'up' on our game and yet, the more we
      shed light into the darkness the deeper the darkness goes.
      We push it under ground where 'secret societies' with secret
      languages and unheeding loyalty. There ranks full of the
      very people that have been 'ejected' from your 'game'.

      If we are 'lucky' they are patriots and freedom fighters.
      They fight what is called the good fight.
      The fight of faith that those 'experts' in control will tire
      themselves and reform.

      Below them, another 'breed' of humanity altogether that has
      'become' the very thing that they hated. They have changed
      sides of the coin so many times that they are deluded with
      anger and simply hate everything and anything that is not
      exactly the same. The risk taken to 'fight' the things we
      hate is to become those things thus now becoming the thing
      that the 'other' hates...

      Is this the 'game' that you are talking about?

      I am sorry Lynne this is not directed at you but it must be
      said and your comment/questioned pulled back a bandaid that
      made this 'Humpty Dumpty' leak a little (for those of you
      that remember my Humpty Dumpty and leaking Bandaids story).


      "Light on the Path" through the "Gates of Gold".
      It is material channeled through Mable Collins in 1918.

      Following is a quote:

      "The whole nature of man must be used wisely by the one who
      desires to enter the way. Each man is to himself absolutely
      the way, the truth, and the life.

      But he is only so when he grasps the whole individuality
      firmly, and by the force of his awakened spiritual will
      recognizes this individuality as not himself, but that thing
      which he has with pain created for his own use, and by means
      of which he purposes, as his growth slowly develops his
      intelligence, to reach to the life beyond individuality.
      When he knows that for this his wonderful, complex,
      separated life exists, then, indeed, and then only, he is
      upon the way. Seek it by plunging into the mysterious and
      glorious depths of your own inmost being. Seek it by
      testing all experience, by utilizing the senses in order to
      understand the growth and meaning of individuality, and the
      beauty and obscurity of those other divine fragments which
      are struggling side by side with you, and form the race to
      which you belong. Seek it by study of the laws of being, the
      laws of nature, the laws of the supernatural; and seek it by
      making the profound obeisance of the soul to the dim star
      that burns within. Steadily, as you watch and worship, its
      light will grow stronger. Then you may know you have found
      the BEGINNING of the way. And when you have found the end,
      its light will suddenly become the infinite light."*

      * See it by testing all experiences, and remember that when
      I say this I do not say: "Yield to the seductions of sense
      in order to know it." Before you have become an Occultist
      you may do this; but not afterwards. When you have chosen
      and entered the Path you cannot yield to these seductions
      without shame. Yet you can experience them without horror:
      can weigh, observe and test them, and wait with the patience
      of confidence for the hour when they shall affect you no
      longer. But do not condemn the man that yields; stretch out
      your hand to him as a brother pilgrim whose feet have become
      heavy with mire. Remember, O disciple, that great though
      the gulf may be between the good man and the sinner, it is
      greater between the good man and the man who has attained
      knowledge; It is immeasurable between the good man and the
      one on the threshold of divinity. Therefore be wary lest
      too soon you fancy yourself a thing apart from the mass."



      All are invited to visit The Core website. Below is a small
      sampling from the site (the main pages are in question and
      answer format). Also, there are links to many other sites
      on the Web related to Advaita in many of its expressions, as
      well as a musical selection in RealAudio format. Here is
      the URL:


      You are invited to take Satsangh with the page author, and
      maybe to unlearn a thing or two :-)

      With Love and OM,

      ------------ Q: What's the biggest obstacle to realization?

      A: The idea that realization is some kind of extraordinary,
      unusual state to be achieved. In actuality, the *exact
      opposite* is true. The entire world is like a mental
      hospital, and those who are realized are the only ones
      getting well. Yet we are trained almost from the moment of
      birth to view the everyday world as 'normal,' and so
      anything that doesn't fit within that framework is seen as
      extraordinary. This idea is incredibly powerful and
      difficult to root out. It has to be accepted that this
      state most of us are in right now is most unnatural, and
      that realization is simply returning to the natural, right
      way of thinking and being. The world is sick to the core,
      and only a few get well. Yet the mind persists in thinking
      of duality as 'normal.' Even the culture in India, where
      saints and gurus are venerated or worshipped, doesn't help
      in this -- in fact, it makes it worse. There's no ready
      solution to this issue. See that realization is not a state
      to be strived for or achieved, and that may be enough. If
      not, then every single idea in the mind may have to go,
      along with the mind itself. The mind must cease to operate
      entirely and with it all ideas. Or, you may have to isolate
      from the world entirely so that your ideas of 'normal' and
      'abnormal' become fuzzy and weakly defined. Whatever it
      takes, to get rid of this backward and wrong idea that
      realization is an extraordinary state, and especially that
      it is a state to be achieved. You already have it, but it
      is covered up with just such ignorant ideas as 'realization
      is unusual and for the few!'



      from Astavakra Samhita

      Translation by Thomas Byrom

      Chapter 6 - Knowledge

      1 I am boundless space.
      The world is a clay pot.

      This is the truth.

      There is nothing to accept, Nothing to reject, Nothing to

      2 I am the ocean.
      All the worlds are like waves.

      This is the truth.
      Nothing to hold on to, Nothing to let go of, Nothing to

      3 I am the mother-of-pearl The world is a vein of silver, An

      This is the truth.

      Nothing to grasp, Nothing to spurn, Nothing to dissolve.

      4 I am in all beings.
      All beings are in me.

      This is the whole truth.

      Nothing to embrace, Nothing to relinquish, Nothing to

      OLD HAG

      >From the book of Psalms:

      "Lord, my mind is not noisy with desires, and my heart has
      satisfied its longing.
      I do not care about religion or anything that is not you.
      I have soothed and quieted my soul like a child at its
      mother's breast.
      My soul is as peaceful as a child sleeping in its mother's

      Psalm 131


      Hello, dears:

      I have sat at the table and blessed the bird, Thanked the
      Unknown for fortune great and small.
      I laughed with the children, Snoozed off the mashed
      potatoes, And even sat on the balmy beach for a couple
      hours. The waves lapped my feet.

      Do you want to know what has been since the beginning of
      Just THIS! Just THIS!
      None else my soul hath known, None else is it rejoicing.

      Hope you all have had fine holiday!
      love, oh


      I've just read four nd salon digests' of words and ideas.

      I submit for re viewing:

      "The energy of the whole has taken possession of you. You
      are possessed, you are no more, the whole is. This moment,
      as the silence penetrates in you, you can understand the
      significance of it, because it is the same silence that
      Gautama Buddha experienced. It is the same silence that
      Chuang Tzu or Bodhidharma or Nansen.... The taste of the
      silence is the same.

      Time changes, the world goes on changing, but the experience
      of silence, the joy of it, remains the same. That is the
      only thing you can rely upon, the only thing that never
      dies. it is the only thing that you can call your very

      Nonduality Salon Website
      Nonduality Salon Email Forum
      Nonduality Salon List of Nondual People
      Encyclopedia of Nonduality
      Nonduality Salon Chat
      New to Chat? Please consider the following suggestions:
    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.