Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Highlights, Thursday, Nov. 25

Expand Messages
  • umbada@xx.xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx.xxxxx)
    DAN When I clearly experience presentness I find no past, no splitness anywhere; no beginning or end to it. When past is imposed on present, I see memory,
    Message 1 of 1 , Nov 26, 1999
    • 0 Attachment

      When I clearly experience "presentness" I find no past, no
      splitness anywhere; no beginning or end to it.

      When past is imposed on present, I see memory, thought, and
      emotional reactivity constructing a shadow-play.
      I feel like saying, the wind is a gift to the leaf, and the
      leaf is a gift to the wind. And neither has a worry about
      being "that" to the other!

      Can receiving be effortless and unpremeditated? If the
      receiver immediately accepts the gift, there is no need for
      a distinction between the giver and receiver.

      "Profound Presence" implies such immediacy - if there is a
      moment of hesitation or reaction, there is a "space" or
      "separation" in which to define the receiver as separate
      from the giver and the gift.

      An example might be an object of perception, the act of
      perceiving, and the perceiver. In "Profound Presence," I am
      perceiving myself, and yet I am not separable from the act
      of perception itself. There is no "me"
      perceiving "it," just Profound Presence (which is naming the

      The Infinite Presence is, then, in no way apart from this
      very simple present moment exactly as it is "given" to me -
      not apart from my simple life exactly as this life is
      "given" to me. And is not, in any way, apart from "I" who
      receive this life.



      Silence (from Osho Zen Tarot)

      The energy of the whole has taken possession of you. You
      are possessed, you are no more, the whole is. This moment,
      as the silence penetrates in you, you can understand the
      significance of it, because it is the same silence that
      Gautama Buddha experienced.
      It is the same silence that Chuang Tzu or Bodhidharma or
      Nansen.... The taste of the silence is the same.

      Time changes, the world goes on changing, but the experience
      of silence, the joy of it, remains the same. That is the
      only thing you can rely upon, the only thing that never
      dies. It is the only thing that you can call your very



      I'm reading a book of J. Krishnamurti's talks with children
      attending the K. foundation schools in India, published by
      the K. Foundation of India. Unfortunately it is out of
      print as far as I know. This is Jiddu Krishnamurti at his
      most accessible, I'll be posting some excerpts.


      Student: Sir, how can we know ourselves?

      Krishnamurti: That is a very good question. Listen to me
      carefully. How do you know what you are? You understand my
      question? You look into the mirror for the first time and
      after a few days or weeks, you look again and say, "That is
      me again." Right? So, by looking in the mirror every day,
      you begin to know your own face, and you say, "That is me."
      Now can you in the same way know what you are by watching
      yourself? Can you watch your gestures, the way you walk,
      the way you talk, the way you behave, whether you are hard,
      cruel, rough, patient? Then you begin to know yourself.
      You know yourself by watching yourself in the mirror of what
      you are doing, what you are thinking, what you are feeling.
      That is the mirror - the feeling, the doing, the thinking.
      And in that mirror you begin to watch yourself. The mirror
      says, this is the fact; but you do not like the fact. So,
      you want to alter it. You start distorting it. You do not
      see it as it is.

      Now, as I said the other day, you learn when there is
      attention and silence. Learning is when you have silence
      and give complete attention.
      In that state, you begin to learn. Now, sit very quietly;
      not because I am asking you to sit quietly, but because that
      is the way to learn. Sit very quietly and be still not only
      physically, not only in your body but also in your mind. Be
      very still and then in that stillness, attend.
      Attend to the sounds outside this building, the cock
      crowing, the birds, somebody coughing, somebody leaving;
      listen first to the things outside you, then listen to what
      is going on inside your mind. And you will then see, if you
      listen very very attentively, in that silence, that the
      outside sound and the inside sound are the same. (p.44-45)



      I'll be away with the Jesuits from Sunday - Thursday next
      week. So, include that as part of my silence (since it is a
      silent retreat after all - custody of the eyes even).

      I understand.
      We don't want to cause each other pain.
      I search for you day and night.
      The trees grope for one another in the stormy
      The lightning flash reassures them
      they are close to one another.

      My brother, I am with you. Please stay.
      Our home is always within us.
      Just as when we were children,
      we can still sing together.

      This morning, I wake up and discover
      the excited buzzing of the diligent bees
      preparing to rebuild the universe.
      Dear ones, the work of rebuilding
      may take thousands of lifetimes,
      but it has also already been completed
      just that long ago.
      The wheel is turning,
      carrying us along.
      Hold my hand, brother, and you will see
      that we have been together
      for thousands of lifetimes.

      The dress my daughter hangs out to dry
      is sailing in the wind
      over the green.

      It is a late autumn morning
      with a light breeze.
      I am standing in our backyard-
      the fragrance of firesmoke,
      the red maple leaves scurrying about
      like little children at our feet.

      A song drifts from across the river.
      Such golden gifts!

      As the moon rises above the lake,
      we play together near the front door.
      I am not dreaming.
      This is a real day, a beautiful one.
      Do we want to return to the past
      and play?
      We are here today,
      and we will be here tomorrow.
      This is true.
      We can walk together
      through the fragrant woods.

      They say that God has consented
      to allow us to help Him.
      We have walked hand in hand
      since time immemorial.
      If you have suffered, it is only
      because you have forgotten you are me.

      The mirror is smiling at you.
      Don't dip your hands into cement and sand.
      Stars don't build prisons for themselves.

      Let us sing with the robin and nightingale.
      Let us be fully here.
      I know you are here - I can look into your eyes.
      Your eyes are as beautiful as the sky.
      Do not let them be transformed
      into unfeeling marbles.
      Why speak of the need to love one another?
      Just be.
      I don't need to become anything else.



      Greg wrote: " About I AM THAT - I know 3 people whose only
      sadhana for a period of 5 years was to read I AM THAT
      slowly, and over and over till the pages were frayed. They
      didn't know each other, but when they finally did meet, they
      became fast friends!"

      Doesn't surprise me a bit. Nisargadatta is immensely
      effective in the precise areas where Krishnamurti left most
      people cold. Like Krishnamurti, he's the consummate Jnani,
      yet he doesn't have Krishnamurti's propensity to step on the
      traditions and Gurus and beliefs of others (he leaves that
      to you!). Rather, he explains in simple, plain and
      compassionate language how he "got to" where he is, and how
      anybody can get there. I would expect that out of those
      three people you mentioned, at least one of them 'realized'
      (if there was genuine sincerity and at least some
      contemplation in between readings) :-)

      I can say one thing... I'm about 3/4 of the way through the
      book, and I am not the same (or perhaps I am the same but
      the Universe has changed ;-).
      Something here is awake that was sleeping before, something
      is beginning to creep out into the light, a lot of ignorance
      that was hidden has melted away like sugar in water.

      I have to say, if I had the choice to buy one single
      spiritual book in this lifetime, "I Am That" would be the
      one. "Living at the Source"
      (Vivekananda) comes in a close second, although I don't even
      know if that one is still available.


      TIM G.

      >From I Am That, by Nisargadatta Maharaj (NM)

      NM: You, as a person, imagine that the Guru is interested in
      you as a person. Not at all. To him you are a nuisance and
      a hindrance to be done away with. He actually aims at your
      elimination as a factor in consciousness.

      Q: If I am eliminated, what will remain?

      NM: Nothing will remain, all will remain. The sense of
      identity will remain, but no longer identification with a
      particular body. Being - Awareness - Love will shine in
      full splendour. Liberation is never of the person, it is
      always from the person.

      Q: And no trace remains of the person?

      NM: A vague memory remains, like the memory of a dream, or
      early childhood.
      After all, what is there to remember? A flow of events,
      mostly accidental and meaningless. A sequence of desires
      and fears and inane blunders. Is there anything worth
      remembering? The person is but a shell imprisoning you.
      Break the shell.

      Q: Whom are you asking to break the shell? Who is to break
      the shell?

      NM: Break the bonds of memory and self-identification and
      the shell will break by itself. There is a centre that
      imparts reality to whatever it perceives. All you need is
      to understand that you are the source of reality, that you
      give reality instead of getting it, that you need no support
      and no confirmation. Things are as they are, because you
      accept them as they are. Stop accepting them and they will
      dissolve. Whatever you think about with desire or fear
      appears before you as real. Look at it without desire or
      fear and it does lose substance. Pleasure and pain are
      momentary. It is simpler and easier to disregard them than
      to act on them.


      Q: How can a speck like me create the vast universe?

      NM: When you are infected with the 'I-am-the-body" virus, a
      whole universe springs into being. But when you have had
      enough of it, you cherish some fanciful ideas about
      liberation and pursue lines of action totally futile.
      You concentrate, you meditate, you torture your mind and
      body, you do all sorts of unnecessary things, but you miss
      the essential which is the elimination of the person.


      'I am that' is a clear understanding that points to the
      'that', which is the 'becoming' aspect of being/becoming.
      As it is 'becoming' it is yet to arrive therefore it does
      not exist. Thus, it is understanding that one does not
      exist in the 'this' sense allowing you to transcend 'this'.

      As mentioned earlier, 'this' also does not exist as, in
      terms of the speed of light, it has already happened even
      though we only see (perceive) it in the 'now' as we are
      'dragged' along looking backwards, and/or, the world is
      freaking crazy and simply does not yield to the law of truth
      therefore, as the law of truth does not apply, this world is
      a paradox thus is not real.

      It truely is a great acheivement to center one's 'self' in
      one's 'being' (call this the 'earth' for visual sake) aspect
      however we must recognize that we must also center in the
      'that' aspect of 'becoming' (call that the 'moon' for visual
      sake). The 'dynamic' of the earth and moon are clear and I
      don't think I need to expand here.

      Once centeredness in these 'two' earth/moon, being/becoming,
      this/that, is acheived, it is a small step yet a great bound
      to move these into each other for the final realization of
      'not two'. Expanding this idea is to point to the fact that
      the earth has the same 'relationship' with the sun as does
      the earth to the moon... and the sun to this galaxy... and
      the galaxy... well... I think you get the 'point'... all
      the way out to the 'Ayin', Ein Sof, Nothingness, Void,
      'THAT', ....

      The true sense of being is acheived when the kundalini moves
      from the spine to the crown and out which acts as a tractor
      beam or a distress signal... then the 'ball of light' moves
      over and aligns with the crown thus locking the two
      'being/becoming' into one continuous flow of 'perpetual'
      energy. Or, to be consistent with our visual example...

      (Jan can set us straight on the kundalini as I am only
      relating my experience... I believe that no two awakenings
      are the same as we all are burning different aspect of
      karma... there could also be something too that when
      considering what others relate in regards to 'any' of this
      stuff... :o) )

      The earth rotates and, as we know, it has a wobble of, if I
      remember correctly, 23 degrees tilt. The centereness of
      being then is first rounding your 'self' then tilting back
      up to acheive a true 'perpetual' spin. Once this is
      acheived, it is 'like' catching the moon and pulling it up
      to set it directly above you.

      When these two bodies lock, there is a release or energy
      that is perpetual and unlimited (eternal if you wish) that
      suddenly you feel yourself 'free' it is like a key hitting
      the lock and opening a door... from fear, hate, negative
      feelings in general... peace. :o)

      Just a side bar here... what you seek is not a door.
      You are standing at the door on 'this' side...being...
      on 'that' side...becoming.... And as we know the door is
      ajar (open) but your realization must accept that the door
      is a 'jar' that has you contained... break the jar or jump
      out (remember the lament of fleas)...

      Now, I visualize my consciousness as a 'original face'
      pressed into the 'bubble' that we call 'this' or 'this

      Try this... center yourself in your mind then stretch out
      your arm and feel something like the arm on the couch ( even
      the key board as you are typing)... do you feel this in
      your mind? No. You can truely feel that it is separate
      from the 'I am' precense of mind and is 'really' OUT



      ...there are many K. awakenings and most of them will be
      different. But there is one type of K. awakening that is
      rather universal; it is the awakening of the heart. In one
      of the books of Evans-Wentz the biography of Padma Sambhava
      is described and the story mentions a bird, making a sharp
      wound at a spot in the body between the breasts (called
      sternum), the anahatha chakra. Similar descriptions can be
      found in Rosicrucian and Sufi literature. In fact, the term
      "Rosicrucian" comes from "rose", and this "flower of the
      heart" has to be picked with bare hands...
      In Bhakti it should be the same, as the heart center will
      awaken this way in a path of surrender, (or) love and
      devotion; without any indication one will suddenly feel a
      sharp, burning pain at the sternum and the descriptions, of
      a bird of prey, a knife etc., making a lasting wound (of
      love), are rather accurate. This is the "royal road" as it
      is effortless and fast; in fact one can forget K. as long
      as one doesn't forget one's "first love". With this type of
      awakening, when K. reaches the crown center, it is moksha
      and the crown center becomes the abode of the Shakti.

      With other types of awakening, things not only are different
      but likely to be more difficult as well. A hatha yoga
      forced K. awakening with pranayama etc. is the very last I
      would advise. But with "unknown" spontaneous awakening
      there is no choice; in this case the nondual perspective is
      most rewarding as it enables one to accept everything *as
      is* and if it isn't forgotten that at the heart center, the
      nondual perspective is *love*, one cannot go astray.



      A Quiz from Judas (JT), with a few responses from John L.
      (JL) and answers by JT.

      1. Water boils at 100 degrees Centigrade.

      JL: Not at my altitude.

      JT:Very good!

      Conditionally true. Always true at sea level (on this
      planet) but not true, e.g., in the Himalayas and only true
      off this planet in those places that happen to correspond to
      sea level on this planet..

      2. PQ = QP
      JL: Mathematically or semiotically?

      JT: Very good again!

      True, in ordinary mathematics.

      3. Any set which is part of another set is smaller than the
      set of which it is part.

      JL: No answer?

      JT: True, of finite sets.

      4. Raquel Welch is the most beautiful woman in the world.

      JL: No. That would be my wife.

      JT: However much you might agree with it, this proposition
      is neither true nor false nor indeterminate, since no known
      scientific or logical test can be applied to it.

      5. There is a tenth planet beyond Pluto.

      JL: There are innumerable planets beyond Pluto.

      JT: This question should perhaps read "... in orbit around
      the sun."

      This question is Indeterminate. No such planet has been

      6. Colorless green ideas sleep furiously.

      JT: Only in the non-duality saloon.

      JT: This statement appears to be neither true, nor false,
      nor indeterminate, since nobody can observe a colorless
      green idea to discover its sleeping habits. This
      proposition must, therefore, be considered meaningless.

      7. 'Behind the Green Door' is a dirty movie.

      JT: Neither true nor false nor indeterminate. No instrument
      such as a smutometer can exist even in principle, so we
      can't measure the dirtiness of a film or any other artwork.
      This proposition, then, is as meaningless as the one about
      the colorless green ideas.

      8. The Pope is infallible in matters of faith and morals.

      JL: Probably not. But from what I read about him, he's a
      really nice guy.

      JT: Neither true nor false nor indeterminate nor
      meaningless. This appears to be a game-rule; all players
      wishing to participate in the Roman Catholic game must give
      assent to it, or the game itself ceases to include them.

      9. Van Gogh is a greater artist than Picasso.

      JL: They were hacks. Gloria is an artist.

      JT: Neither true nor false nor indeterminate nor
      meaningless. This appears to be a statement about
      somebody's evaluation of Van Gogh and Picasso, confusingly
      formulated to look like a statement about Van Gogh and
      Picasso themselves.

      10. Entropy increases in all closed systems.

      JL: Ya know, entropy just isn't what is used to be.

      JT: Almost certainly true, but it is partly true by
      definition. This law has proven itself so valuable to
      science that any 'exception' will be most profitably handled
      by redefining what we mean by a 'closed system' instead of
      giving up the law itself.

      11. Nothing remains of the pacing famous sea but its speech
      and into its talkative seven tombs the anchor dives through
      the floor of the church.

      JL: Duh!

      JT: Neither true nor false nor indeterminate nor
      meaningless. The speaker is using multi-ordinal words to
      create precise imagistic-ideational information about subtle
      processes in his own nervous system. The result is known as

      12. I am the Divine Effulgence of the Living God.

      JT: This appears to be failed poetry, or else the speaker
      has his semantic levels confused in the same manner as
      proposition 7.

      13. The following sentence is false.

      JT: This proposition cannot be evaluated as true, false or
      indeterminate or meaningless in itself, since it is part of
      a system which includes the next proposition.

      14. The previous sentence is true.

      JT: This system is now revealed as a Strange Loop. If it is
      true, it is false, and if it is false, it is true. This is
      not trivial. There are hundred of such Strange Loops
      recognized in logic and mathematics, and it requires
      sophisticated knowledge to detect them when they are not as
      obvious as this pair. Alan watts has proposed in his
      'Psychotherapy East and West', that whole societies can
      become trapped in such Strange Loops.

      JL: You come to a fork in the road. One path leads to
      oblivion, the other to paradise. There's are two people
      standing at the crossroads, one tells only lies, the other
      tells only truth. You have one question.

      I would ask one of the men what the other man would answer
      if I were to ask him which road leads to oblivion. Then I
      would take that path.

      15. All men are created equal.

      JT: Neither true nor false nor indeterminate nor
      meaningless. This is a game-rule of Jeffersonian democracy.

      16. A boy has never wept nor dashed a thousand kim.

      JT: This appears to be some kind of poetry.

      17. All mathematics can be deduced from Set Theory.

      JT: Indeterminate.

      18. My wife is the most beautiful woman in the world.

      JT: I am not married.

      JL: I didn't look ahead! Really, I didn't!!

      19. Science and biology arise from Silence, and subside
      back into it.

      JT: This appears to be either poetry, or else a game-rule of

      (Please note that the above quiz and answers are a modified
      form of the quiz presented in the book 'Right Where You Are
      Sitting Now' by Robert Anton Wilson.)



      (with regard to the Osho Zen Tarot at

      There would be enought people here to fit the 79 cards of
      the deck.

      Wonder what it would do if we went around each with a name
      of a card we picked for a while?



      Being "in the gap" can be disorienting and even scary.
      Nothing to hold on to, no sense of direction, not even a
      hint of what choices and possibilities might lie ahead. But
      it was just this state of pure potential that existed before
      the universe was created. All you can do now is to relax
      into this no-thingness...fall into this silence between the
      words...watch this gap between the outgoing and incoming
      breath. And treasure each empty moment of the experience.
      Something sacred is about to be born.

      No-Thingness was Antoine


      Happy Thanksgiving and many blessings to all.

      Much love, Kristi


      My Meriann is presently cutting out little pieces of
      cardboard and gluing red leaves on them that she collected
      this morning from the hillsides around our home for the
      candles to sit on for our Thanksgiving dinner table.

      Happy Thanksgiving everybody!!

      and to Mrs. Kalabash too, wherever you are.......

      Nonduality Salon Website
      Nonduality Salon Email Forum
      Nonduality Salon List of Nondual People
      Encyclopedia of Nonduality
      Nonduality Salon Chat
      New to Chat? Please consider the following suggestions:
    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.