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ND Highlights from Wednesday, Nov 17

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  • Melody
    Nonduality Highlights for Wednesday, November 17, 1999 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Xan offered: Someone asked Ramana what he saw
    Message 1 of 1 , Nov 18 9:36 AM
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      Nonduality Highlights for Wednesday, November 17, 1999


      Xan offered:

      Someone asked Ramana what he saw when people came to him.
      He said, "Someone who doesn't know what he is."


      Skye wrote:
      I had just received the book you referred to in that post,
      from amazon.com and am looking forward to reading it now
      more than ever. There is a sense that this middle way is
      what i have a natural tendency to resonate with :-)

      Nagarjuna's Mulamadhyamakakarika. Oxford Univ. Press, 1995.
      (Very clear philosophical explanation of Nagarjuna's
      Treatise onthe Middle Way, in Western terms)

      This is an outstanding book, and has gotten very good reviews in Buddhist
      publications. It is extremely clear, and does a magnificent job of
      avoiding two common errors in interpreting Madhyamika: essentialism and

      I don't know whether academics would agree but i also
      find the middle way teachings, in those old monastery wood
      block translations of the ancient chinese masters by Charles
      Luk "The Transmission of the Mind Outside the Teachings"and
      "Ch'an and Zen Teaching" (if only he had lived to translate
      them all). His dharma vocabulary is a marvel to behold.
      eg....The Master said both notions of the worldly and the
      saintly are "obstructing gold"

      There is nothing special about what i do each day,
      I only keep myself in harmony with it (surroundings),
      Everywhere i neither accept nor reject anything,
      Nowhere do i confirm or refute a thing.
      When mindless of surroundings there is no need for Ch'an

      greg: Many interpreters of Nagarjuna mistake his verses
      about existence to mean that *there is* a transcendent
      Reality behind samsara.

      skye: Or that there *is not*.
      As you say "the only way to stay clear is the Middle Way".
      It is this which silences my thoughts! though this student
      is still only
      in the process of "developing a mind that does not abide
      anywhere". Diligently walking within the void of all things
      which are not created, not annihilated, not impure, not
      not increasing and not decreasing.

      greg: Other interpreters mistake the verses about
      non-existence to mean that nothing exists in any way
      whatsoever. Garfield does a very good, very clear job of
      showing how either one of these errors also entails the
      opposite error as well, and that the only way to stay clear
      is the Middle Way.

      Plus the translation is graceful and the commentary simply
      worded (well, except for a few professional-philosophers'
      terms here and there).



      > I am a firm believer
      > in, "you are always in the right place at the right
      > time." If we
      > doze off or shut down that is also 'grist for the
      > mill' of transformation.
      > Grace is very efficient - nothing is wasted.

      Tim Harris:

      Good point xan. I believe that you are always at a
      place and a time (here/now) and the 'rightness' is the
      fact that it could be no other way. This is the point
      of 'surrender'. Whether one puts their 'heart' into
      that 'isness' or not is important. Eyes open, eyes
      shut, the ride is the same.


      Also from Tim H:

      Breathe in then out
      'it is' what you make it
      Breathe in then out
      you can 'hold' it
      but you can't take it


      Michael Martin:

      > What the Master recognizes will depend on the
      > individual. He might recognize an egomaniac or he
      > might recognize a True Seeker.

      Tim Harris:

      An interesting point Michael. What do you think about
      the idea that, in some sense, the egomaniac is an
      inexhaustible 'fuel' source 'within' the true seeker?

      It is the 'I get knocked down but I get up again'
      attitude or, more topic specific, 'I fall asleep but I
      wake up again.' :o) Is it not this 'dynamic' that is a
      built in 'fire' to balance and harmonize 'one' with
      'what is'? The key then, is one's ability (desire) to
      place the egomaniac in the back seat allowing the true
      seeker to drive.

      Back seat drivers are annoying yet, sometimes they do
      have good points to make.


      From: "Jackie Leve"
      Subject: On Critical Thinking : Apart of or from 1 (One)?

      Dungeon Masters

      We are the creaters, the Dungeon Masters if you will
      As we go through life it is our dungeons that we fill
      We say one day we will clean it out with goodness and light
      Someday we will make what's wrong right
      But someday is always tomorrow, can't take it right now
      I really would like to clear it out but I am not sure how
      So we throw failure on to the pile and shove it further away
      It's funny how we react when it returns on another day
      "Why me?" we scream and shake our fist
      I guess we just added anger to the list
      We walk around as victims, like there is nothing for us to do
      We mindlessly claim, it can't be me it must be you
      For if we really take this problem and call it our own
      It is only weakness that we have shown
      Take responsibility for how we go through life?
      We would rather stab ourselves with a knife!
      So we keep adding to the dungeon day after day
      Hoping someone else will come by and sweep it away
      So look deep inside yourself, see the work that must be done
      You can't clean out the dungeon if you continue to run
      - J Leve 1990 (revised 1999)


      From: umbada@...
      Subject: Rockettalk

      something to consider:


      (voice email)


      Ben writes (referring to a previous posting from Xan):

      I connect with Nisargadatta Maharaj, and appreciate this
      passage. I don't even know how to word this question. I
      have started and restarted several times....

      I do not want to waste words, and I want to be clear. This
      passage "when I see that I am fill in the blank. Is this
      seeing a spontaneous event, or is it something that happens
      after years of practicing a particular sadhana? I think
      that I am tied up in this effort v.s. no effort v.s.
      effortless. It is clear one day, and the next it wears me

      I think there are other questions behind this, but I would
      like to ask from the core of my confusion. I appreciate
      your and any other member thoughts.
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