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Highlights, Thursday, Nov. 11

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  • umbada@xx.xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx.xxxxx)
    MAURICE Non-Dual Infants You think you know so much, peeking out from the womb like a one-eye Cyclops, crawling on all fours to the moon. You think you know so
    Message 1 of 1 , Nov 12, 1999

      Non-Dual Infants

      You think you know so much,
      peeking out from the womb
      like a one-eye Cyclops,
      crawling on all fours to the moon.

      You think you know so much,
      infant babes with peek-a-boo treats,
      crawling infinity, skipping along on cosmic feats.

      You think you know so much,
      non-dual infants, slobbering of spiritual greed,
      smelling of conceptual pride, of ignorance dribbling
      with a babbling of non-dual desires and fears
      in the cosmic kindergarten of eternity.

      Sometimes your crawling ass,
      could stand a cosmic wiping..




      All I want is to be free to hold nothing, All I want is to
      be free to be fully and fearlessly with whatever is occuring
      here and now

      I commit to being open to the meanings I am generating, to
      be allow the meanings to be.


      This is an exquisitely beautiful statement of desire, which
      comes straight from the fullness and fearlessness of the
      here and now.

      "God", is just more of the same hokey pokey, a belief, a
      pacifier that gets outgrown....all in good time.


      ...is it a belief, something that someone told you or is it
      understanding that comes from your own direct experience?
      Huge difference. You can't just watch someone else breathe
      air and expect to survive yourself.


      who needS a dictator, the illusion of time is enough of a
      dictator in this dimension as it is.



      Gloria Lee wrote: "How does an intentionally nondualist
      community want to deal with conflicts?"
      It seems to me that a short coming of "nonduality" is that
      there is no social context. Off the top of my head, I can
      only think of two places in the stuff I've read where
      society is an issue. In the Gita where the advice seems to
      be follow the local neurosis and hope for a good charioteer
      and secondly in some off hand remarks by Douglass Harding
      about "nonconfrontation". There the idea seems to be to
      present the other with the space that you are, but I don't
      know if this would be particularly helpful if the other guy
      is having a hard time, and I don't see how it could be
      comunicated in an email anyway. At any rate, my main point
      is that any steps in the direction of articulating a social
      or "mahayana" nonduality could be something totally new and
      would probably coincidentally facilitate an appreciation of
      nonduality in a broader audience.


      Hello, I am new on the list and I want to introduce myself.
      I am female, 42, teacher, married with firak, we have
      together a 6 years old son and a little private school for
      English and German.
      Sometimes I need to share and then I

      Dear friends.

      here I am again after more than one week. Last week I was
      in go(o)d old Germany . I visited teachers from Pliezhausen
      (Germany) with teachers from Lasko(Slovenia). The area is
      called Baden Wuerttemberg. It was really nice. They showed
      us Thuebingen, and Ulm with the big cathedral.
      This was a beautiful church, but I didn't feel right in
      place. The best for me was the castle in Sigmaringen from
      the family Hohenzollern. ( The German people know this
      places. ) I must say, that this people drink a lot. (I
      have been together with non-meditative people ) Mostly they
      drink at home with friends and then they sing from all the
      heart and this i like. I know them for a long time and they
      are always the same and for me they say that I am always
      Anyway, I like them.........

      How are you??????????

      I am still O.K. My non-master Maitreya is now in England
      and will go after one week to America........He starts a
      world tour. It suprised me a little , because he wanted to
      stay in Pune (India) until February, but suddenly he sent us
      this message. I must say that Maitreya is a really dynamic
      enlightened person. He always changes his plans. God the
      beyond tells him always what to do. He says for himself,
      that he is only a puppet in gods hands and everyone who
      visits his Satsangs can see it.................
      If you are near, where he stays, try to go to a Satsang and
      you will see.............
      I am steel in conection with him and this makes me really

      Years before I was in total devotion with my master Osho, I
      loved him and I still love him. I came to the Commune one
      year after he left his body. The energy in that time was
      very strong. I learned how to meditate , made groups and so
      on. I learned a lot. I learned also sufi-whirling.
      I am not a whirler by birth, but last year I whirled very
      good. ( this said Akhil- whirling master in Buddha hall).
      But the last two years I felt less and less energy in the
      commune. I was good into meditation, had high energy by
      whirling, but I was missing something. In that time I
      didn't know what. Then I met Maitreya on the Satsang and I
      knew , that I had missed him. The first Satsang was just
      great. ( I wrote about that to the sannyas list before) I
      had after that a satori.

      Osho is still for me a master, but also Maitreya is very
      important for me. In the Commune I learned meditation
      techniques and other important things, through Maitreya I
      feel the cosmic energy.
      The market place is not so difficult for me anymore.

      With all my love Rahasya ( it means mystery )


      Hello dear friends,

      My life is full and so I have only been able to just keep up
      with the current of the conversations, but I wanted to put
      in a note of gratitude for the enormous growth and changes
      that I have experianced since Eric and I came here. Amazing
      that I am no where near the *end*. My ego puts up quite a
      fight. I have looked at my understandings and the fire of
      looking with the eye of god has burned down my proverbial
      house. I am naked and standing outside, warm as the sun,
      reflected by the moon. the wind of my breath is me as I
      play. and then something comes up and I feel ego rising,
      and I look again. Oh, anyway, I could go on forever about
      that sort of thing....

      Lately I've been thinking about my desire to experiance a
      belonging, whether it be to a species or a religion. Is it
      like a name we wrap up in to keep warm, or what? Does
      anybody have any thoughts on that? I've felt myself very
      attracted to the 3HO group, is it the experiances that I
      crave? I get blissed out when I use my body within
      Kundalini Yoga.
      very very still. What is my Nature and how does that relate
      to feeling a comeradery with Kindred Spirits?

      By the way, Aleks, I haven't talked with you much lately.
      Eric mentioned you a while ago, but I've not had a chance to
      write. I hope that you are lurking and will receive my
      wishes for love in your life and cosmic footrubs.=) I love
      you and have kept you in my heart.



      My father used to say "Noblesse oblige" (nobility obliges).
      A teaching that is seen as "best" inevitably has to be lived
      up to; it has to be reflected in the entire society. If
      not, it will become a mere belief or worse, a dogma.
      Forcing you to take a few belly-breaths, how about this joke
      I read somewhere (but is said to be actually observed): When
      in India a man stumbles and falls on the street, it is seen
      but nobody does anything about it. When in another part of
      the world a man stumbles and falls on the street, he is
      helped :) I know, from a nondual perspective no one falls
      and no one gets on his feet again but there isn't a doer
      either, so why isn't the man helped? No more Buddhists
      around or could it be the adapted version of the first
      directive from Star Trek - don't interfere with karma ?:)

      A warm welcome to the new members...



      Often there seems to be a kind of a club atmosphere here.
      The same small group of people interact and others try to
      find a way in. That's more an observation than a criticism,
      as it is a common social dynamic. And it becomes
      problematic when, lacking an adequate supportive environment
      at home, one goes to an internet mailing list to find that
      which one lacks.

      The welcoming you ask about is crucial to any spiritual
      life. If we only welcome what we like and avoid or
      marginalize what we don't like, we are just like the other
      dualists. That too is a rather common dynamic. It would be
      sad if such is all the NDS is capable of.


      I know in myself when I meet a person whether in person or
      on a list it usually takes a little while before I become
      comfortable with that person, I need to listen to them for a
      little while, it doesn't even really matter what they say so
      much, but I need to form an image of their personality. I
      think this is not uncommon, so for a person who wants to
      join a group of people who are already interacting, you have
      to speak up maybe a few times and maybe not get too much
      response, but know that people are hearing you and forming
      their own images of you, and integrating you into the
      group. There is the natural resistance of shyness on all
      sides, both in the person coming into the conversation and
      in the people already in.


      OK. The problem is this need to have an image. We need to
      have an image in order to keep someone or something distinct
      or separate. How does one know if the image is even
      truthful? My experience is that (a certain person) often
      openly expressed my own negative emotions. Forming and
      maintaining images of others and self is one of the
      syndromes that nondual teachings address. It is an
      ingrained habit that accounts for conflict and social
      division. That is why this list often gets bogged down in
      issues. Is it not so?


      I think that when we are aware of the process, it ceases to
      be a problem, it becomes a problem when we don't understand
      what's going on, when we just act instinctively. I don't
      see a conflict between awareness and this sort of mental
      process, awareness puts it into context, lets us go through
      it consciously instead of blindly. I think that people need
      to have a crisis occasionally, a katharsis, a "brain dump"
      to borrow one of Gene's phrases. Doing it here is a pretty
      responsible way of doing it, better by far than doing it in
      the "real" world. I don't see that any harm has been done
      in the events of the last few days. Just the opposite, I
      think there has been development and learning in many


      Phil: (Forming and maintaining images of others and self is
      one of the syndromes that nondual teachings address. It is
      an ingrained habit that accounts for conflict and social
      division. That is why this list often gets bogged down in
      "personality" issues. Is it not so?)

      Dan: It is precisely so. Thanks for clarifying this so
      The maintenance of personality structure and learning about
      reality through this structure - that is generally what we
      consider learning. Along with such learning comes all kinds
      of emotional responses when our intellectual attachments or
      attachment to images of self or other are threatened.
      Nonduality is not this kind of learning, which is
      essentially fragmented and fragmenting. Nonduality is
      precisely renunciation of attachment to fragemented being,
      allowing the opening of nonfragmented being. However,
      because the nonfragmented supercedes and subsumes the
      fragmented, when Nonduality appears in the realm of Duality,
      it is as all-encompassing compassion that supports no
      structures. We tend to make the mistake of thinking that
      Awareness/compassion wants to compassionately support our
      structure as is. No. It is the end of it.

      GLO (referring to Dan's post)

      I started humming,"Killing me softly with his love..." Now
      the next question is...who and how may anyone assist anyone
      in this shattering of images?? This seems to me a far more
      awesome risk than undertaking brain surgery...yet I have
      felt it was done most tenderly at times ... others wilh
      violence..I suppose depending on my own degree of
      attachment. At times I have thought I was "volunteering" by
      surrendering...other times, it seems life simply did it "to

      JAN (referring to Glo's post)

      If, as was my case, one has taken leave of life seriously
      but is restored to it again, "Killing me softly with his
      love..." cannot happen anymore. It was more like dissolving
      in love, being totally absorbed, a state of bliss sometimes
      changing in ecstasy; never depression but the most enjoyable
      ever experienced until then. The crux of the matter is
      "having take leave of life"; it can done mentally with the
      same result and sooner or later it will be forced anyway.
      What possibly can happen after that? My favorite saying was
      "having lost everything, everything is gained": all images
      are shattered in one blow. Admitted, this is an extreme.
      The other extreme is being completely attached to ephemeral
      life. From that perspective, "Killing me softly with his
      love..." is more than an understatement; at times it could
      be "being hit real hard with a hammer". The first extreme
      is called unconditional surrender and the other extreme is
      Between the extremes of black and white there is an infinity
      of shades of grey. Be aware of the feeling

      ANDREW (referring to Dan's post)

      To me it's like the story of the Child King and the Chief
      While the King is a child, The Minister carries out all the
      day to day duties of his office and also rules the Kingdom
      on the King's behalf.
      When the King is mature, the Minister still carries out his
      day to day duties, but now is subservient to the King who
      rules on his own behalf.
      The personality with its various mental functions is like
      the chief minister, still carrying out his duties, but no
      longer ruling.


      If you really understood what was going on, you would drop
      it like a hot potato. I mean really understood. "Image" is
      not an ingredient of relationship. "Image" is destructive.
      I say it as I see it. The operative meaning of image is
      something constructed or fabricated. On the other hand,
      there is absolutely nothing wrong about image-making in
      itself. Imagination is wonderful. But when it's
      psychological it is a symptom: the refusal of What Is.


      Now I understand, yes I did speak of forming an image, that
      was confused in my expression, I was thinking of the time it
      takes for a perception to develop, it takes some time and
      some tentative interaction with someone I meet before I can
      be open with them. Openness comes with familiarity. It's
      not me actively forming an image, it's the image forming
      itself. Like an image forming on the film in a camera.


      What is problematic isn't imagery and imagination per se,
      it's the error of mistaking an image -- by (Phil's)
      definition a construct or fabrication -- for the actuality
      it may well have been intended to evoke or point toward.
      If one harbors an image, that image tends to perceptually
      displace the actual. When we understand the nature of
      imagery, we are free to enjoy it as such, as part and parcel
      of "what is" -- if we don't we will very likely mistake the
      menu for the meal.


      There is no image for this community to hold onto. Yet
      there is always an image coalescing. It needs to always be
      dispelled. It's very difficult to do, but that dispelling
      of the coalesced image is not different than the attentional
      work anyone does or needs to do every moment. It's
      neti-neti. It is out of this knowledge, this attentional
      work, that Andrew's Listguru, or what I've called holo-guru,

      Melody asked several days ago (and I got caught up in the
      recent storm and neglected to respond) where I thought this
      community was going (I'm not quoting Melody exactly). Well,
      I don't really want to know. The best plan is no plan. But
      it's going somewhere and all we can do, I feel, is remove
      the obstacles in the way, and we know what the obstacles



      Judgement is one of the primary functions of ego-mind that
      holds the illusion of duality in place. But, you must know
      that, at least as a concept.


      .....just looking into the *illusion of duality* part a
      little more. I want to probe the illusion to its depths, i
      want to grant the diversity that exists. With loving
      endeavor, i want to be completely immersed in it, as if no
      other existed, free enough to explore the nature and direct
      experience of every living thing in this system of human
      physical consciousness and know that it is me before i

      I don't want to cause myself any unnecessary illness through
      neurotic rejection.

      I want to know that i created the limitations and the
      depths, that i was the game and all was not in vain, that
      the illusions i created were important and valid learning
      experiences for the self.

      So i will play it with divine humor and deep reverence. All
      the while aware that i am dwelling in other realities
      These are tender children i lay to rest.


      Likewise, trees sprout and grow only while their root is
      hidden. If their root is uncovered, the trees wither. So
      it is with all begotten things in this world, not only
      things that are visible but also those that are hidden. For
      so long as the root of evil is hidden it is mighty. But as
      soon as it has been recognized it has perished, and as soon
      as it has appeared it has ceased to be. For this reason
      scripture says that "even now the ax is laid to the root of
      the tree."
      It will not just cut them down, for what is cut down sprouts
      back up: rather, the ax will burrow down until it extracts
      the root. And Jesus weeded the whole place, while others
      did so one part at a time.

      Let each of us, too, burrow for the root of evil that is
      within, and root it up from his or her heart. It will be
      rooted up when it is recognized. But if we are ignorant of
      it, it sinks its roots within us, and yields its crops
      within our hearts; dominates us; we are its slaves; it takes
      us captive, so that we do the things we do not want, and do
      not do the things that we want; and it grows powerful
      because we do not recognize it. So long as it exists it is
      at work.

      Lack of knowledge is the mother of all evil. Lack of
      knowledge will lead to nullification: for, those who existed
      as a result of the lack of knowledge neither existed nor do
      exist nor will exist. Those remaining will become perfect
      when the whole truth appears. For like the lack of
      knowledge, truth rests in itself while it is hidden. But
      when it appears, and is recognized, it is glorious insofar
      as it overpowers lack of knowledge and error. It brings
      freedom. The Word said, "If you know the truth, the truth
      will make you free." Lack of knowledge is a slave:
      knowledge is freedom. If we come to know the truth, we
      shall find the fruits of truth within us. If we join with
      it, it will receive our fullness.
      (GoPh 104)

      The Pathway of Nonduality

      by Raphael

      Chapter 11


      Q. People speak of reincarnation, of metempsychosis,
      rebirth, transmigration. What do these terms mean? And who
      is it that is reborn or transmigrates?

      A. All the branches of Tradition have faced the problem of
      rebirth.The Western Mysteric Tradition speaks about
      metempsychosis, the Oriental -- in which Buddhism, Taoism
      and Jainism may be included -- about transmigration or

      The concept of transmigration or rebirth implies, obviously,
      that there is something which leaves and comes back,
      something which creates movement or changes condition.
      Further questions may be asked: why does one transmigrate,
      why is one reborn?

      This point is very important and very much discussed. First
      of all let us restate the problem in metaphysical terms:
      that which is 'born', if it really is so, cannot be born a
      second time; that which is not born cannot be born or come
      into existence, because it is an eternal presence, an
      absolute or a constant. The non-existent cannot either be
      born or exist or be.

      Therefore, if the atman-constant, the pure Spirit, the
      Absolute in us or the pure Being cannot be born because it
      simply 'is', nor can it transmigrate because it is not
      subject to change, then what is it in us that transmigrates?
      And why does it transmigrate, why is it reborn?

      In order to understand who is reborn and why, we must know
      the make-up of the manifested entity in its psycho-physical
      components. In this way we shall be able to examine the
      whole problem in all its details.

      As we have already seen, according to the Western Mysteric
      Tradition man is a synthesis of nous, psyche and soma;
      according to the Vedanta Tradition he is a synthesis of
      atman, jiva and jivabhuta. The nous, like the atman, being
      the constant, the immortal, the non-born, and the Absolute
      in us cannot, obviously, be subject to birth and
      transmigration. The immortal cannot become mortal, nor can
      the mortal become immortal, as Gaudapada states in his
      karikas to the Mandukya Upanisad.

      The body or bodies of the entity, being as perishable as
      flies, disintegrate, and their elements return to the plane
      and to the existential element from which they have been
      drawn. They cannot transmigrate or be reborn because, being
      compounds, they dissolve and disintegrate leaving no traces
      behind them.

      The jiva or psyche is a reflection of consciousness of the
      atman-nous, it is a ray of pure consciousness which, though
      being a mere ray, has within itself being-will,
      consciousness-intelligence and creativity. It attracts
      towards itself a certain amount of substance from the
      existential planes of Being, producing its bodies of
      manifestation through which it can experience the various
      objects of the senses.

      "An eternal fragment of Me, having become in the world of
      mortals a living soul (jivabhuta), attracts towards itself
      the five senses and the mind (manas) as the sixth organ,
      which find their basis in prakriti." (Bhagavadgita: XV, 7)

      If the atman belongs to the state of Being -- and therefore,
      being immortal, cannot transmigrate --, if the body belongs
      to the condition of non-being, and therefore has no life of
      its own or aseity, then we must shift our attention to two
      very important factors: the reflection-jiva-psyche and the
      qualities that represent the 'scent' of the substance.

      "The vital breath," writes Rene Guinon in his L'homme et son
      devenir selon le Vedanta, paraphrasing a number of chapters
      of the Brhadaranyaka Upanisad, Chandogya Upanisad and
      Brahma-sutra, which deal with the question of death,
      "accompanied by all its other functions and faculties
      (already reabsorbed in it and not subsisting in it except as
      possibilites, having now reverted to the state of
      indifferentiation from which they had to rise in order to
      actually manifest themselves during life) is in turn
      reabsorbed by the living soul (jivatman, particular
      manifestation of the Self at the core of human
      individuality, as already explained, and distinct from the
      Self so long as that individuality endures as such, though
      this distinction is an illusion from the standpoint of the
      absolute reality for which there is nothing but the Self);
      and it is this very living soul(as the reflection of the
      Self and central principle of the individuality) which
      governs the whole of the individual faculties (considered in
      their integrality and not only in their relationship with
      the corporeal mode). Like the servants of a King gather
      around him when he is about to undertake a journey, even so
      all the vital functions and faculties of the individual
      (external and internal) gather around the living soul (or
      rather within it, from which they all issue and by which
      they are all reabsorbed) at the last moment (of life, in the
      ordinary sense of the word, that is of manifested existence
      at the gross state), when this living soul is about to leave
      its corporeal form. Thus, accompanied by all its faculties
      (as it contains and keeps them as possibilities) it retires
      into a luminous individual essence (that is, into the subtle
      form, compared to a fiery vehicle, as we have explained with
      regard to taijasa, the second condition of atman), which is
      composed of the five tanmatras or suprasensible elementary
      essences (just as the body has the five bhutas or corporeal
      and sensible elements), in a subtle state (as opposed to the
      gross state, which is the state of external or bodily
      manifestation whose cycle, as far as the individual is
      concerned, is completed).

      "As a result (due to his passage into the subtle form,
      described as luminous) the vital breath is said to withdraw
      into the Light, without meaning by this the fiery principle
      in the exclusive sense (as in reality it concerns an
      individual reflection of the intelligible Light, a
      reflection the nature of which is basically the same as the
      mental one during bodily life and which, on the other hand,
      implies a combination of the five basic principles of the
      five elements as its support or vehicle). This withdrawal
      does not necessarily imply an immediate transition; in fact,
      (to give an example) a traveller is said to travel from a
      city to another, even though he may stop at one or more
      cities in between.

      "This withdrawal from or leaving the bodily form (as
      described so far) is common to the ignorant person (avidvan)
      and to the contemplative Sage(vidvan), up to the point at
      which their respective (and from now on different) ways

      --to be continued!



      Six wise, blind elephants were discussing what humans were
      like. Failing to agree, they decided to determine what
      humans were like by direct experience.
      The first wise, blind elephant felt the human, and declared,
      "Humans are flat."
      The other wise, blind elephants, after similarly feeling the
      human, agreed.

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