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ND Highlights for Wed, Nov 10

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  • Melody
    Hi everyone. I m back helping Jerry out with the Highlights now and then. And wouldn t you know, on my first day back, I mess up and put it out a day late!
    Message 1 of 1 , Nov 12, 1999
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      Hi everyone. I'm back helping Jerry out
      with the Highlights now and then. And
      wouldn't you know, on my first day back,
      I mess up and put it out a day late!

      My apologies for the inconvenience! I'll
      get back into the groove with this.

      Here are some of the Highlights for Wednesday,
      November 11. Enjoy and have a great weekend!

      Melody

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      Tomas Diaz de Villegas wrote:

      I'm very interested in getting your impressions on the teachings of the
      mystic priest on the site below. For some reason, at this moment, I'm
      drawn to understand why it triggers such strong reactions in me
      (fearfull feeling of missing something crucial)- I realize that I have a
      background of experiences that may make hearing the truth in what is
      being said difficult. Maybe it's not necessary for me to understand at
      all..yet I feel such a pull to.


      Eric responds:

      Thomas, what bait you bring to me, the Catholic shark. Guess by judi's
      reckoning
      ~that makes you a chum! I hope you take any truth i might offer here,
      in the same spirit. I meditated a bit on Padre Pio, a Franciscan Priest,
      and got to
      the bit about his particular way of confession. Most notably his Open
      Heart.

      For me, absolute allowance of my heart; trusting in a sense the "universal
      heart",
      is my only "eyes" in the state of Beingness. I personally can relate
      to the task of 'judging others'. This, I find to be nearly universally
      unacceptable.
      Strangers, Probably all of us here at NDS, my wife. But none of that
      changes *my*
      perception. Padre Pio used his Heart. My advice, as I did, is move through
      the fear you are experiencing. Well, that's vulnerability, returned :-).

      About Padre Pio, and giving confession:To this task he brought an advantage
      that few confessors have, the ability to read hearts.
      Padre Pio's charism enabled him to know when someone was
      being deceitful in confession or simply had forgotten a
      serious sin, perhaps
      through lack of an adequate examination of conscience. In
      such cases he was able
      to tel the penitent exactly what they did and when, as
      well as any relevant
      circumstances. This drew many hundreds a day to him,
      moved by the grace of
      sincere repentance and the knowledge that Padre Pio could
      guide them with the
      wisdom of God in the spiritual life.

      He also drew those who did not believe in his gifts or
      who intended to test the
      Padre. These were invariably unmasked, often in harsh
      ways. In the end they
      often repented, made a sincere confession and renewed
      their lives, despite their
      initial intentions
      ______________________________________________

      Glo:
      >Taking nonduality as a license to do harm to another is the grossest
      misunderstanding of it there is.

      Dan:
      Taking nonduality as anything seems to me to be a misunderstanding.

      Action brings reaction. This turns
      the wheel of karma. Who is not upon this wheel?
      To react quickly, not to react, to judge, not to judge... the wheel turns
      ceaselessly, does it not?

      To prevent wrong and promote good, to regulate the community, to
      maintain order... this is the age-old project of civilization.
      Each ordered social group determines it rules and
      roles, as it decides who needs to be defended and how. To protect the
      innocent, to make safety for the vulnerable, to understand how to do this
      while fostering compassion... this is the challenge for the community.

      Judge not lest yet be judged by the same measure by which ye judge. So
      regulate the community, but from a quiet place of nonjudgment.

      Awareness includes and trancends emotion and intellect. Neither emotion
      nor intellect work appropriately when attempting to drive awareness.
      When judgment is heaped upon judgment, the simple truth of the moment
      may become obscured by drama, intensity, assertions. We each observe
      and our observations reflect one to oneself.

      The Tao is like water, going where persons disdain to go.
      Truth is like the sands of the Ganges, rich and poor walk upon it equally.
      Awareness is like space, empty, open, and spacious.

      -- Dan

      ____________________________________________________


      >> Melody:
      <snip>
      >>In other words, it wants a payoff, or is
      attached to the outcome....either of which
      ensures a 'dualistic' response to the results

      >> ... meaning someone will win/lose, be pleased/displeased, will
      like/hate, etc.

      >>....which suggests the action was
      likely originating from my sense of 'morality' or 'philosophy' or 'duty' or
      such.

      >> Nothing wrong with that, I'd say. But it shouldn't be confused with
      compassion.


      Dan:

      Melody, I feel that your statements here and others you made very much
      resonate with my own perspective. You've elucidated something I consider
      important to look at in sorting out all of the various responses in this
      recent tumultous time on this list. When one person initiates responses of
      the love/hate, win/lose, attack/defense variety, these
      responses tend to elicit reactions of a similar order. It's easy for us to
      get into "how do I protect myself in this situation" and lost sight of the
      "big picture". To me, the "big picture" has no edges, is the kind of
      compassionate awareness of which you speak. This awareness has no
      divisions and so doesn't aim at specific goals to protect or hurt specific
      personalities. That, it seems to me, is precisely why "totality awareness"
      is simultaneously so powerful and so elusive for us. It seems so easy for
      us to be caught in the drama of who is "in" and who is "out", who will win
      and who will lose, and as soon as we're involved in this, we have
      "motivation", "desire," and "anxiety" in a situation.

      Awareness/compassion
      includes and transcends emotion and intellect. Neither emotion
      nor intellect work appropriately when attempting to "drive"
      provide motivation and goals for) awareness. They work appropriately
      when "surrendered into" awareness.
      When judgment is heaped upon judgment, the simple truth of the moment
      tends to become obscured by drama, intensity, assertions. We then may
      each observe and our observations reflect one to oneself.

      The Tao is like water, going where persons disdain to go.
      Truth is like the sands of the Ganges, rich and poor walk upon it equally.
      Awareness is like space, empty, open, boundless.

      --- with love -- Dan

      __________________________________________________________

      from Harsha:

      This is from a prior post. Again wanted to
      share.......................................Harsha


      The Reality of Awareness appears to manifest through the mind/body, and at
      the same time it seems that mind/body, ego, indeed all related perceptions,
      only exist within the Reality of Awareness. It is the experience of the Sage
      that Reality exists along with and independent of the condition of the
      mind/body as well. The mind itself can be seen as a condition that appears
      to emanate from the Source of Knowing and disappears into that. Therefore,
      Reality embraces all conditions and is limited neither by duality nor
      Nonduality or any particular theology, philosophy, radical point of view,
      etc. Once an ice cube melts into water, it is hard to know which portion of
      the water was the ice cube. Similarly, once the mind is absorbed in the
      Heart, One Is the Heart. Yet, how can one ever have been out of the Heart as
      there is nothing but That. The disappearance of this mystery might be called
      Self-Realization.


      Reality is not dependent on anything as It is truly One without a second.
      There is nothing other than That, and That You are, say the wise Sages.
      Therefore, One is Ever the Heart, The Center. Still, to even say that is
      limiting, as the existence of a Center implies a periphery, an outer orbit.
      This is the mental/intellectual perspective, the play of concepts and
      language, and cannot be helped as duality, although less abstract
      conceptually, is as real or unreal as Nonduality. No matter how subtle the
      level of intellect, it is the domain of concepts and concepts are tools of
      Maya. But what is Maya? Can it be anything different than the Self. I see
      and "feel" the simplicity of the Self, through both misery and joy and other
      conditions and therefore point to that. I hold that the self, although it
      appears limited, is indeed the Self, if understood it to be so in all its
      reality, clearly and without doubt or confusion. As the Sage of Arunachala
      has pointed out there cannot be two selves. A small one and a big one. What
      is seen as the conditioned is always the pure and uncontaminated
      unconditioned. What could contaminate it? Perhaps the nature of "Seeing"
      has to be understood clearly. This simplicity is what I am. To say that
      something more is required, other than this simplicity of awareness, this
      simple "seeing" might mean that something more is required for the one who
      feels something more is required. For others, the simplicity itself, the
      simplicity of I AM is enough. This "I AM" feeling/awareness can potentially
      be felt under all conditions. This is the "seeing" without the use of eyes.
      Where it leads, is said to be independent of conditioning as concepts that
      differentiate are seen to be just that (concepts that differentiate). Mind,
      memory, etc., exist within Reality, as manifestations of Reality, and appear
      to depend on That for movement and cannot be separated from it. Reality can
      not be absent at any time. Therefore it is Here and Now. So the wise
      aspirant must inquire, "What is "It" that is truly here and now? What is the
      meaning of this?

      Harsha

      ____________________________________________________

      Jerry:

      I've been thinking about this list. It is not founded in a
      religion or teaching. It really isn't. Harsha's stunning
      list is very free, yet receives its grounding from Jainism
      and nondual Hinduism. The beautifully run Advaitin list is
      founded in Advaita. Alan Kuntz's intense
      ContemplativEclectic list is very open and grounded in
      Christianity and Fourth Way teachings, if I read it
      correctly. M's solid Ananda list is grounded in Nityananda.

      The Salon is really not grounded as the others are. That's
      tremendously refreshing to some. I can't imagine this list
      grounded in anything like that.

      I think we need to realize that not being so grounded can be
      destabilizing for some people. Tim, for example, behaves
      admirably on the Advaitin list, even as we speak. He's Tim
      at his best.

      I think that as this list community matures from only a list
      with a few people talking about nonduality, to a greater
      force in the spiritual domain of people's lives, we need to
      understand the potentially destabilizing effect it may have
      on people's emotional and mental apparatus and thus take
      greater responsibility for everything we say and do.

      In other words, we all need to grow up a little. Yet, we
      don't have to be polished either. Nobody has to change who
      they are or their attitude, but I feel there's a need to be
      more aware of the influence exerted and that it is exerted
      in an atmosphere that is grounded in no teaching.

      There is the possibility of the Nonduality Salon becoming
      better known throughout the nondual world and we may have to
      slick back our hair and somehow hide the spaghetti stains
      some of us can't get out of our shirts.

      We can be more sensitive and still give em hell. In fact,
      the more sensitive we are, the more hell we can give them.

      Trying,
      Jerry

      _______________________________________________________

      from Judi:


      "Tired of Speaking Sweetly"

      Love wants to reach out and manhandle us,
      Break all our teacup talk of God.
      If you had the courage and
      Could give the Beloved His choice, some nights,
      He would just drag you around the room
      By your hair,
      Ripping from your grip all those toys in the world
      That bring you no joy.
      Love sometimes gets tired of speaking sweetly
      And wants to rip to shreds
      All your erroneous notions of truth
      That make you fight within yourself, dear one,
      And with others,
      Causing the world to weep
      On too many fine days.
      God wants to manhandle us,
      Lock us inside of a tiny room with Himself
      And practice His dropkick.
      The Beloved sometimes wants
      To do us a great favor:
      Hold us upside down
      And shake all the nonsense out.
      But when we hear
      He is in such a "playful drunken mood"
      Most everyone I know
      Quickly packs their bags and hightails it
      Out of town.

      ******* Hafiz and Judi
      ___________________________________________

      from Xan:

      Grace will use anything in illusion
      to get us back to Heart.
      Unlimited radical intervention.
      Whatever it takes.

      Sweet and bitter
      Burning and comfort
      Soft and forceful
      Silly and profound

      Love has no ideas about it

      -
      The only quote I ever remembered from Osho:

      "Compassion is doing whatever it takes to bring awareness to a situation."

      ________________________

      Melody:

      Sometimes God is as gentle
      as a summer's rain

      Sometimes God roars
      with the fury of a hurricane.

      Sometimes God is so quiet
      you could listen for miles,
      and not even Him whisper.

      God has more faces
      than any of us can imagine.

      Just when we 'think' we know
      what tomorrow will bring,

      God speaks to us,
      in all of his Wonder.

      ___________________________________________________

      Tim Harris:

      Indeed, the need for non-harm is necessary in order to
      open up new paths of greater discovery thus is the
      mystery and we should want it no other way. It is the
      way. However, consider for a moment the warrior
      spirit.

      The warrior spirit is that which climbs the walls and
      mountains, forges the raging streams, runs through the
      fires as it scotches his skin, shuffles under the
      barbed wire that tears at his flesh, manoeuvers the
      minefields... all of which were built and set by you
      to keep the evilness of life away.

      He falls from the sky and lands in the mud, knows the
      sweat as it burns his eyes, tears rich in salt stream
      down his face, and still he faces 'your' greatest
      fears, demons, and nightmares while breathing the air
      of death and despair that burns deeply in his lungs.

      He opens your cage and reaches for you and you scream
      and fight and say 'I do not need to be saved! I do not
      need anyone! I am all alone and no one can know how
      frightened I am! Leave me alone I am so afraid!',
      lifting you onto his shoulders he takes your kicks and
      screams as you scratch at his face and eyes and he
      works his way back through the obstacle course of
      'your own' design and he doesn't say a word.

      Then, in the next moment, he places you ever so gently
      down in the cool grass and you lungs begin to fill
      with fresh air and your bones begin to feel a warmth
      and your whole 'being' begins to glow again. You open
      your eyes to thank this warrior but alas... you can
      not... for he has gone back in for another.

      Does it matter? Afterall, he can't possibly save them
      all?

      In your heart... words speak out and you hear them
      say: 'It mattered to 'you' my little starfish.'

      You turn quickly to see who said these words and you
      find that you are lying in a beautiful field and there
      is Harsha... as he promised.. waiting silently to take
      you the rest of the way home.


      Andrew responds:

      Great vision...and also;
      The warrior spirit first calls and listens for an answer.
      The warrior spirit comes to rescue the one who is answering.
      The caged one must be calling out for rescue, even though afraid.
      The caged one must first see that the fortress s'he has built is a cage.

      __________________________________________________

      also from Tim Harris:

      If no one shook your cage from time to time... how would you know you were
      in one? Sometimes, those that are shaking our cages are merely fiddling
      with the lock.

      _______________________

      from Xan:

      Judgement is one of the primary functions of ego-mind that holds the illusion
      of duality in place.

      ________________________________________________________
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